Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

[bogoljub]

God bless !

In the Holy Scripture often Christ is called God - directly and indirectly !

In the old Testament we can read about the plurality of God :

In hebrew often the plural is used when speaking of God,

In the Beginning GODS/ELOHIM created Heaven and erth…

Let US make man in OUR image,
Let US go down…
Man has become like US

Abraham saw ONE LORD but THREE ANGELS…

My LORD said to my LORD…

And my God let it rain fire from GOD ???

You will find so many passages like this,

And also many Prophecies: he will be called prince of Peace, MIGHTY GOD… Christ is the mighty God

I give u a sign the Virgin will conceive …and his name will be called EMMANUEL - GOD with US again the Scripture calls Christ God

And God said to the Israelits; follow him because my Name is in HIM JESHUAH ( the leader of the Israelits to the promised Land after Moses has died) --MY NAME because Christ/God was also called JESHUAH

in the New Testament:

And you shall call him the Name JESHUAH --JAHWE SAVES-GOD SAVES so his Name is also an evidence of his Godhead

In the Beginning was the LOGOS and the LOGOS was with GOD
and the LOGOS was GOD…

or always the Scripture calls him LORD/ ADONAI this means GOD and not MR. JESUS

so when St. Elizabeth says: How is it that the Mother of my LORD/ADONAI/KYRIOS comes to me; she says the MOTHER OF MY GOD

the jews often said; He makes himselfe equal to God

and of course all the other passages were it is clear that Christ is God but I think they were already mentioned !

IN CHRIST

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Since JesusYeshuaIssa is one and the same person among Jews, Christians and Muslims; I would like to clarify from Quran/Islam/Muhammad (from the verses in the Quran) that JesusYeshuaIssa could ever claim godhead for himself, he would rather pleasingly serve GodAllahYHWH as per Quran.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa’
[4:172] O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He had sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.
[4:173] Surely, the Messiah disdains not to be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoso disdains to worship Him and is proud, He will gather them all to Himself.
[4:174] Then, as for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their rewards in full and will give them more out of His grace; but as for those who disdain and are proud, He will punish them with a painful punishment. And they shall find for themselves beside Allah no friend, nor helper.
[4:175] O ye people, manifest proof has indeed come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear Light.
[4:176] Then, as for those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him, He will surely admit them to His mercy and grace and will guide them along a straight path leading to Himself.
Unquote

Thanks

 

[AbeOman]

God bless !!

In quran the two most honored persons are Christ and Mariam.

It is interesting that the quran also speaks of Allah in plural -we have given u…when Allah is only one in the absolut sense and not unique why he is speaking of himseve in plural ?

IN CHRIST

That is very true and I agree with you there, moreover, I have no issue with that, Jesus was not just a man or any man for that matter (implying he was a man which he was when he was among his disciples), moreover, to me he was far greater and mightier then many prophets and angles, hence it would be rationally acceptable of him (speaking in the plural as well as the singular stances) considering that he spoke Aramaic as well as Hebrew which is very close and similar to Arabic.

The issue was in so many places Jesus clearly states that he is not God and nothing like God (Father), so why don’t we refer to these verses also…?

That was my question…I hope this clarifies my point.

 

[AbeOman]

AbeOman,

you are just selecting quotes yourself.

I only gave those two verses in an example to consider the context nothing more and nothing less.

Over time I am figuring out that you need to have faith that Jesus is God. “Forcing” God to give you what you want by using the Bible in a political way to say “see Jesus is not saying He is God here, and He is denying this here and saying this here is not what the Bible should be used for”.

No, first I accept Jesus as he who said he was and leave it to that, I don’t add anything to it or deduct anything from it.

So my acceptance is a forgone conclusion. The second point, I would like to make is that there is nothing political about it since we are not addressing an issue concerning a political agenda.

Now, let em deal with the issue where we differ, Is Jesus God Almighty or he is not…?

So please define what God Almighty is…? what exactly are we talking about…? Let me hear side.

In regard the person of Christ himself, believe me no Bible can ever and will ever dicribe him in such a Noble, powerful and magnificient mannor that the Quran does. so let’s deal with the above questions…?

Meanitme, allow me to give you some direct answers form the Bible, Juses is telling us in the Bible that he is NOTHING Like God, in All Knowing… When speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:32, and Matt. 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.

GOD IS ALL-POWERFUL…BUT JESUS WAS NOT
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do…” (John 5:19) Again he said, “I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me.” (John 5:30) But God is not only All-Powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

GOD DOES NOT HAVE A GOD…BUT JESUS DID HAVE A GOD, as God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was One whom he worshipped and to Whom he prayed when he said, “I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn’t this be read, “Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?” Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord’s Prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt.” (Matt. 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

Please continue…

 

[AbeOman]

COLOR=“Navy”]Please continue…

GOD IS NOT FLESH AND BLOOK BUT JESUS WAS FLESH AND BLOOD.

While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said: “No man hath seen God at any time.” (John 1:18) “Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape.” (John 5:37) He also said in John 4:24: “God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

NO ONE IS GREATER THAN GOD AND NO ONE CAN DIRECT HIM… BUT JESUS ACKNOWLEDGED SOMEONE GREATER THAN HIMSELF WHOSE , WILL WAS DISTINCT FROM HIS OWN.

Perhaps the clearest indication is that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, comes again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28: “My Father is greater than I.” When someone referred to him as good master in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded: “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God…” Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, “I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me.” (John 8:42) Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42, “not my will but Thine be done” and in John 5:30, “I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me.” That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

So, in conclusion, I personally would like to have somesort of confirmation the effect that Lord Juses states clearly in the Bible (NT) that he is God, keeping in mind, he is closer to God Almighty, he is the way to God Almighty and he is the turth and the word, here there is no are no dispute to this effect, but I need to have a clear answers to the above two questions that I have noted earlier.

Since the the Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis can I believe come to believe otherwise?

Please don’t take this as an attack on the Trinity or Christianity, but a simple question from a simple man who truly believes in Jesus in every fibre of his being, who is only interested in the truth about God and my relationship to Him, I invite you to investigate the religion of Islam and start these few points,

1- WHAT IS THE WORD OF GOD ABOUT JESUS:

A. REGARDING THE SONSHIP OF JESUS.

“That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He but says to it ‘Be’, and it is.” (Qur’an 19:34, 35)

“And they say, ‘the All-Merciful has taken unto Himself a son.’ You have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and it behooves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but he comes to the All-Merciful as a servant.” (Qur’an 19:88-93)

“Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God’s sight, is as Adam’s likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, ‘Be’, and he was.” (Qur’an 3:59)

“People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, ‘Three.’ Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian.” (Qur’an 4:171)

Please continue…

 

[AbeOman]

COLOR=“Navy”]Please continue…

B. REGARDING JESUS BEING GOD.

“And when God said, ‘O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, “Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God?”’ He said, ‘To You be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what You did command me: “Serve God, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of everything.’” (Qur’an 5:116, 117)

A matter of importance, NO Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus (PBUH), in his teachings were and are all good, all righteous and all leading to the right path so and so forth. In a nutshell, I totally and divinely believe that Jesus was, is and will be all good, all love, all righteous and pious, he is the holly spirit, he is the word of God and he is one of the mightiest messengers of GOD.

IS HE GOD Almighty or like GOD…NO. Otherwise, show me a clear and precise proof from your Bible…?

 

[zerinus]

IS HE GOD Almighty or like GOD…NO. Otherwise, show me a clear and precise proof from your Bible…?

There are such proof, but you won’t accept them! You try to find a way of getting round them!

zerinus

 

[AbeOman]

God bless !
SNIPPED

I give u a sign the Virgin will conceive …and his name will be called EMMANUEL - GOD with US again the Scripture calls Christ God

Here is a necessary clarification, Immanuel, Emanuel, Emmanuel, Immanuel, or Imanuel are the SAME NAME and are another name for Jesus, means “With us is God”. This name is also common for men before and after Jesus.But does it mean Jesus is GOD Almighty…?

And God said to the Israelits; follow him because my Name is in HIM JESHUAH ( the leader of the Israelits to the promised Land after Moses has died) --MY NAME because Christ/God was also called JESHUAH

I leave the OT to Jews, they now it better and since they totally disregard and disbelieve Jesus it would be futile to apply the OT to proof that Jesus is God.

I will limit to my answers to the NT as you have stated below.

in the New Testament:

And you shall call him the Name JESHUAH --JAHWE SAVES-GOD SAVES so his Name is also an evidence of his Godhead

Where the name Jesus comes from, what does it mean in Hebrew…?

First, let’s define what it is NOT,
Jesus (Yeshua) means in Hebrew “salvation” and not “God saves” .

Yud Shin Waw Ain - this name doesn’t include the word “God” .

Joshua (Yehoshya ) - Yod Hey - Waw Shin Ain
Isaya ( Yeshayah ) - Yod Shin Ain - Yod Hey .

Therefore, these two names are combination of Yod, Shin, Ain - salvation and Yod, Hey - Yahwe.

Yosh Hey ( Yah ) is common short from Yahwe, for example Alleluia comes from “Halelu Yah” - “Glorify Yahwe”.

In the Beginning was the LOGOS and the LOGOS was with GOD
and the LOGOS was GOD…

or always the Scripture calls him LORD/ ADONAI this means GOD and not MR. JESUS

Again, this I leave to the Jews, I’m sure they know what ADONAI means, so if they would agree with you then I’m sure they would all believe in Jesus today or at least make an article of faith in their religion to believe in him as we Muslims do.

Also, please note that The “Yahweh” in many Hebrew names is shortened because it apparently makes the name much easier to pronounce since it is used often. It is very similar to our shortened names today such as:

1- Michael shortened for Mike.
2- Samuel shortened for Sam.

Moreover, Many people before and after Jesus in the Bible were given GODLY names similar to the one above in Jeremiah 23:6.
For Example,
1- Jerusalem was called “The LORD our Righteousness”. “In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness (Yahweh tsidkenû).’ (Jeremiah 33:16)”
2- Abraham called a mountain “The LORD will Provide” (Yahweh Jireh). "So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide (Yahweh Jireh). And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided. (Genesis 22:14)”
3- Ezekiel means “Strong God”. It also means “Yahweh is Strong God”.
4- Elijah. This name is short for EliJehovah or “Eli Yahweh”. Eli means my GOD, and Yahweh is the name and title of GOD Almighty in the Bible. Does “Eli Yahweh” or Elijah mean that the person is Jehovah Himself?
5- Israel means “Challenge God”, “he struggles with God”, or “fight with God”. It also means “Defeat God”.
6- Gabriel also means “Strong God”.
7- Isaiah or Jesaiah, which is short for “Jesa Yahweh” means “Salvation from Yahweh”. It could also mean “Salvation”.
8- Joshua, which is short for “Josh Yahweh” means “Yahweh Saves”.
9- Please also see, Psalm 82:6, Isaiah 9:6, since “gods” is a combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called “god” or “God” in the Bible it wouldn’t make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD or Jehovah.

In addition, let me point out that ANY “Son of GOD” in the Bible is a “god” or “God” as clearly shown in Psalm 82:6.

so when St. Elizabeth says: How is it that the Mother of my LORD/ADONAI/KYRIOS comes to me; she says the MOTHER OF MY GOD

As matter of fact, most Bible readers don’t know this simple fact that the following verse form the Bible “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Jeremiah 23:5-6)”

So was Jesus from David’s Branch or Solomon’s as clearly stated in the Old Testament must come from David’s son Solomon’s blood line (2 Samuel 7:14, 1 Chronicle 17:11-14, 22:9-10 and 28:4-6), will be a King who will reign and prosper, and will execute judgement and justice in the earth, and his name will be “The LORD OUR RIGHTEOUS” or “JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUS”.

Snipped…

 

[AbeOman]

There are such proof, but you won’t accept them! You try to find a way of getting round them!

zerinus

Please, why doubt my sincerity…? I’m be missing something so go ahead and show it to me…but it has to be precisely clear and to that effect.

Thanks ad Regards,

 

[zerinus]

Please, why doubt my sincerity…? I’m be missing something so go ahead and show it to me…but it has to be precisely clear and to that effect.

Thanks ad Regards,

Some of them are well known, and you have probably heard them before. I showed you one (John 17:4–5) in post #216; but you did not reply. There are lots more; but that is a good one to start with.

zerinus

 

[AbeOman]

Some of them are well known, and you have probably heard them before. I showed you one (John 17:4–5) in post #216; but you did not reply. There are lots more; but that is a good one to start with.

zerinus

Thanks for reminding me, honestly I have not noticed it before, so what does John 17:4-5 says…let’s read in simple pain English.
“I have brought glory to you here on earth by doing everything you gave me to do. Now, Father, give me back the glory that I had with you before the world was created”

What does it man…? as a layman it would sound that Jesus either is prying to God for getting his glory back or simply just telling him he has done his job and asking his something god has taken from him.

Either case, the thing is Glory…? Glory what is it…? How does that tells me Jesus is God Almighty…?

I believe beyond a doubt just like you that Jesus fulfilled his role while on this earth and thus did his Job and whatever he is asking is not to be crowned as God, unless I’m missing something…?

I always had great difficulties in making Juses as God or equating him to God every time I read these versus, Mark 10:18; Matthew 26:39; John 14:28, 17:3, and 20:17, Matthew 12:18; Acts 3:13, and 4:27. And specially, this verse from the Gospel of John where Jesus says to the Israelites: “You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God” (John 8:40).

Perhaps someone out there can help…?

Thanks again for you valuable time.

 

[bogoljub]

.God bless u !

You made many mistakes in your post !

1. The argument with Emmanuel/ God with us is in vain, because you should know that Names are not only Names in the Holy Scripture ! You can see this fact that Names were changed when the “mission” was changed- like Sarai - Sarah, Abram Abraham,
   Jakob - Israel, Simon Kephas, Saul Paul…there are many other testimonies. Names always have a deeper meaning in Scripture - Mar -ia is from the aram. for Lady ( there are many other explanations,…) why is Christ born in BETH- LEHEM house of bread ?? Why he died on Golgotha ? Why was Adam called Adam by God and Eva -Eva and Adamah why was Paradies called EDEN…even cities and their names have a deeper meaning and Symbols…

So he was called Emmanu-EL/ God with us because it was the “meaning” of his missiion. Or do u think it iwas only a Name - God could also called him Frank or Jo …NO and everyone who has a bit knowledge of Scripture will tell u the same, also Rabbis.

1. You are wrong because you forgot that most of the Jews believed in him only a rest did not accept him - and also you will find many Rabbis who discover Christ as the Messiah - in Usa -in Israel hundret thousends…and they all believe in the Godhead of Christ, without the teaching of the church, so are wrong !

YEHESCHUAH/ YESHUAH means Jahwe saves u should ask some jewish Teachers or Rabbis they will tell you the same .

And this was the reason why God said this to the Israelits: My Name is in Him - because it was his Name and not only like MICHA EL- who is like God ; it was a Prophecy, please read the explanation of St Justin the Philospher with Tryphon.

If u wish we can go on and I will exact explain to you - we can look to the jewish rabbis -to the christian Fathers and even pagan prophecies what they say about the Saviour !

But this will take much time very much !

But I do not really know what u want ?

And please notice your quotes of the quran are in vain because we do not believe that it is the word of God ( but I know quran very well and there are many contradictions in quran).

In CHRIST,our true GOD
the ALLMIGHTY ONE

 

[bogoljub]

God bless !

Eliseus This prophet’s Hebrew name, however, was ‘Eli’Shuah’, which means “God is my Salvation” (as Y’SHUAH means “YAH is Salvation” or “YAH the Saviour”).

The Hebrew form of the Name YAHU’SHUAH (or Y’SHUAH) is often used in the Tanach (Old Testament) as well as in the official Jewish daily and festival Prayer Books, where it is generally translated as “Salvation”.

The recent much acclaimed computer generated research into repeating patterns or ‘secret revealing codes’ purportedly contained in the original Hebrew text of the Tanach (Hebrew Bible), revealed hidden codes of the Name **Y’SHUAHin all the prophetic sections concerning the promised Messiah. **

The 6th Book of the Bible uses the identical Hebrew form, and is translated “Joshua”. The most probable authentic form is YAHOSHUA or YAHU’SHUA

The publishers wish to emphasise that, although the forms YAHVEH (for the God of Israel), and YAHU’SHUAH (for the Messiah)

In the the 6th Book of the Holy Bible JE(A)H_SHUAH he was the leader of the Israelits into the promised land ( Like Christ he has freed us from the slavery and lead us in the promised Land) and he expeled the enemies ( demons). And God said to Mose " IN WHOM IS MY NAME "

For to us a Child is born, to us a SON is given, and the government will be on HIS shoulders. And his Name will be called:
WONDERFUL CONSOLER; MIGHTY GOD; EVERLESTING FATHER; PRINCE OF PEACE…

Mighty God ----EL GIBOR this name of God is only used twice in the hebrew Scripture --and these verses always speak about the Messiah

You only have to ask an Rabbi and he will tell u that these are all name of GOD and him only. But of corse this verse speaks about Christ.

like I have said we can go on and on the whole OT speaks of Christ:
“The LORD will go forth to fight against those nations” and HIS feet will stand …on the Mount of OLIVES " you know of wich Lord the Scripture is speaking of ?

IN CHRIST, our true GOD

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

First, He uses the first person imperfect of the Hebrew verb “to be”; here the Vulgate, the Septuagint, Aquila, Theodotion, and the Arabic version suppose that God uses the imperfect qal; only the Targums of Jonathan and of Jerusalem imply the imperfect hiphil. Hence we have the renderings: “I am who am” (Vulgate), “I am who is” (Septuagint), “I shall be {who] shall be” (Aquila, Theodotion), “the Eternal who does not cease” (Ar.); only the above-mentioned Targums see any reference to the creation of the world.

The second time, God uses again the first person imperfect of the Hebrew verb “to be”; here the Syriac, the Samaritan, the Persian versions, and the Targums of Onkelos and Jerusalem retain the Hebrew, so that one cannot tell whether they regard the imperfect as a qal or a hiphil form; the Arabic version omits the whole clause; but the Septuagint, the Vulgate, and the Targum of Jonathan suppose here the imperfect qal: “He Who Is, hath sent me to you” instead of "I Am, hath sent me to you: (Vulgate); “ho on sent me to you” (Septuagint); “I am who am, and who shall be, hath sent me to you” (Targ. Jon.).

Finally, the third time, God uses the third person of the imperfect, or the form of the sacred name itself; here the Samaritan version and the Targum of Onkelos retain the Hebrew form; the Septuagint, the Vulgate, and the Syriac version render “Lord”, though, according to the analogy of the former two passages, they should have translated, “He Is, the God of your fathers, . . . hath sent me to you”; the Arabic version substitutes “God”. Classical exegesis, therefore, regards Jahveh as the imperfect qal of the Hebrew verb “to be”.
newadvent.org/cathen/08329a.htm

The Divine Name and the “second death” in the Apocalypse and in the Targums chapter 4 of The New Testament and the Palestinian Targum to the Pentateuch by Martin McNamara.

TJI means Targum of Pseudo-Jonathan.

See, TJI Ex 3:14, Deut 32:39, Rev 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17, 16:5

Who-is-who-was-and-who-is-to-come

When the Word [Memra] of the LORD will be revealed to release his people
he will say to all the peoples:
–“Now see that** I (am) he [ani hu] who is and was
and I (am) he who is destined to be.**
There is no other god beside me!
With my Word I make dead and I make live!
I humbled the people of the house of Israel
and I will heal them in the end [suq] of days.
And there is none to rescue from the hands of Gog and his army [Ezek 38],
when they come to order the ranks for battle against them.”
---- Targum, Neofiti on Deut 32:39

“who is to come” is left out in Rev 11:17, 16:15 because Jesus as God has arrived.

The divine name of this above form, “who is, who was, and who is to come” is used in Hellenistic sources of Platon, Pausanias, Plutarch – “concest of eternity” as meaning, also used in Hellenistic Judaism in LXX, Jer 1:6, 14:13; 39(32):17, also used in Rabbinic Judaism in Mekilta de-Rabbi Ishmael on Exodus 15:3 which employs Deut 32:39 with Isiah 41:4 emphasizing the immutablity of God.

Midrash Psalms 72:1 reads "I created the world with compassion and I govern it with compassion and **I will rerturn to Jerusalem with compassion. **

See also, the alphabet of Rabbi Akiba which reads in part, “I have been and I will be … and I am the same who will be in the world to come”.

TJI on Exodus 3:14 “I am he who is and who will be”

TJI on Deut 32:39 “I am he who is and who was and I am he who will be.”

The above is information that John would have had in mind when he wrote the book of Revelation.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Revelation 1:4

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

Revelation 1:8

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord,] “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 4:8

The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:

  “ Holy, holy, holy,
  Lord God Almighty, 
  **Who was and is and is to come!”**

Note it is at this point that God has already come, well guess who showed up for dinner, Jesus!!!

Revelation 11:17

saying:

  “ We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, 
  The One **who is and who was**,
  Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.

Revelation 16:5

And I heard the angel of the waters saying:

  “ You are righteous, O Lord,
  The One who is and who was, the Holy One
  Because You have judged these things.

Basically the book of Revelation is about the Unveiling of Jesus!

Up to chapter 11, the divine name is applied to Jesus plus the words “who is to come”. After this passage Rev 11:5, I think it was, those words “who is to come” are dropped because God has returned to Jersulem in the person of Jesus.

 

[DLC]

Yes He did or His life and death would be meaningless.

 

[mgrfin]

God bless !

Eliseus This prophet’s Hebrew name, however, was ‘Eli’Shuah’, which means “God is my Salvation” (as Y’SHUAH means “YAH is Salvation” or “YAH the Saviour”).

The Hebrew form of the Name YAHU’SHUAH (or Y’SHUAH) is often used in the Tanach (Old Testament) as well as in the official Jewish daily and festival Prayer Books, where it is generally translated as “Salvation”.

The recent much acclaimed computer generated research into repeating patterns or ‘secret revealing codes’ purportedly contained in the original Hebrew text of the Tanach (Hebrew Bible), revealed hidden codes of the Name **Y’SHUAHin all the prophetic sections concerning the promised Messiah. **

The 6th Book of the Bible uses the identical Hebrew form, and is translated “Joshua”. The most probable authentic form is YAHOSHUA or YAHU’SHUA

The publishers wish to emphasise that, although the forms YAHVEH (for the God of Israel), and YAHU’SHUAH (for the Messiah)

In the the 6th Book of the Holy Bible JE(A)H_SHUAH he was the leader of the Israelits into the promised land ( Like Christ he has freed us from the slavery and lead us in the promised Land) and he expeled the enemies ( demons). And God said to Mose " IN WHOM IS MY NAME "

For to us a Child is born, to us a SON is given, and the government will be on HIS shoulders. And his Name will be called:
WONDERFUL CONSOLER; MIGHTY GOD; EVERLESTING FATHER; PRINCE OF PEACE…

Mighty God ----EL GIBOR this name of God is only used twice in the hebrew Scripture --and these verses always speak about the Messiah

You only have to ask an Rabbi and he will tell u that these are all name of GOD and him only. But of corse this verse speaks about Christ.

like I have said we can go on and on the whole OT speaks of Christ:
“The LORD will go forth to fight against those nations” and HIS feet will stand …on the Mount of OLIVES " you know of wich Lord the Scripture is speaking of ?

IN CHRIST, our true GOD

You make the arguments from Scripture a hard stretch.

You might add the proofs from the infallible unwritten word of Tradition, and voiced specifically, at the Councils of Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus, and Calcedon.

peace

 

[bogoljub]

You make the arguments from Scripture a hard stretch.

You might add the proofs from the infallible unwritten word of Tradition, and voiced specifically, at the Councils of Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus, and Calcedon.

peace

God bless !

Yes u are right. But I do not know if he will listen to such proofs ?

Of course their is the 2000 year History of the Church and her thousends of Saints, the miracles, and Christ did not leave us and also the Theotokos !

Christ and the Theotokos are working great miracles even in the moslem world like the resurrection of the arabian who was killed and cut in peaces and was brought back to life by the Mother of God.

In CHRIST

 

[zerinus]

Thanks for reminding me, honestly I have not noticed it before, so what does John 17:4-5 says…let’s read in simple pain English.
“I have brought glory to you here on earth by doing everything you gave me to do. Now, Father, give me back the glory that I had with you before the world was created”

What does it man…? as a layman it would sound that Jesus either is prying to God for getting his glory back or simply just telling him he has done his job and asking his something god has taken from him.

Either case, the thing is Glory…? Glory what is it…? How does that tells me Jesus is God Almighty…?

Like I said, the message is there, but you deliberately close your eyes to it. The most significant meaning that comes through in that verse is none of what you have mentioned. The most important message is that Jesus predates His birth. He existed before the world was; and in that pre-existent state He possessed a Glory that was equal to, or very close to the glory of God the Father. Now you tell me that you think that means?

I believe beyond a doubt just like you that Jesus fulfilled his role while on this earth and thus did his Job and whatever he is asking is not to be crowned as God, unless I’m missing something…?

You sure are! You missed the bit that His existence predates His birth, and that in His pre-mortal state He possessed a glory equal to that of God!

I always had great difficulties in making Juses as God or equating him to God every time I read these versus, Mark 10:18; Matthew 26:39; John 14:28, 17:3, and 20:17, Matthew 12:18; Acts 3:13, and 4:27. And specially, this verse from the Gospel of John where Jesus says to the Israelites: “You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God” (John 8:40).

I thought we had already gone through that before. Okay, I will meet you part way. I will answer those scriptures for you if you can answer the following scriptures which I shall enumerate below. Since it is a long list, I am going to post it in the next couple of posts. Please refer to the next two posts for scriptural references concerning the divinity, atonement, sacrifice, and redemption of Christ.

Perhaps someone out there can help…?

What help? You hide away from the truth!

Thanks again for you valuable time.

No trouble at all! You will be lucky if you thought you would get away from me though!

Zerinus

Continued . . . /

 

[zerinus]

/. . . Continued

Jesus Chriat—God
Isa. 9:6 his name shall be called . . . The mighty God, The everlasting F.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, . . . and the Word was God.
John 8:58 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Jesus Christ, Creator
John 1:3 (Col. 1:16; Rev. 4:11) All things were made by him
John 1:10 world was made by him
Acts 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things
Eph. 3:9 who c. all things by Jesus
Col. 1:16 by him were all things c.
Col. 3:10 after the image of him that c. him
Heb. 1:2 his Son … by whom also he made the worlds

Jesus Christ, Antemortal Existence of
John 1:1 (1 Jn. 1:1; 5:7) In the beginning was the Word … and the Word was God
John 3:13 no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man
John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before
John 8:58 Before Abraham was, I am
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father
John 17:5 glorify thou me … with the glory which I had with thee before the world was

Jesus Christ, Firstborn
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word
Rom. 8:29 his Son, that he might be the f. among many
Col. 1:15 the image of the invisible God, the f.
Col. 1:18 he is … the f. from the dead
Heb. 1:6 he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world
Rev. 1:11 (22:13) I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last

Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son
John 1:14 o.b. of the Father, full of grace and truth
John 1:18 God … the o.b.S. … he hath declared him
John 3:16 God … gave his o.b.S.
1 Jn. 4:9 God sent his o.b.S. into the world

Jesus Christ, Judge
John 5:27 hath given him authority to execute judgment
Acts 10:42 (2 Tim. 4:1; 1 Pet. 4:5) ordained of God to be the J. of quick and dead
Rom. 2:16 God shall j. the secrets of men by Jesus Christ
Rom. 14:10 (2 Cor. 5:10) all stand before the judgment seat of Christ
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all
Rev. 16:5 Lord … thou hast j. thus

Jesus Christ, Lamb of God
John 1:29 L. of God, which taketh away the sin
1 Pet. 1:19 blood of Christ, as of a l. without blemish
Rev. 7:14 robes, and made them white in the blood of the L.
Rev. 12:11 they overcame him by the blood of the L.
Rev. 13:8 L. slain from the foundation of the world

Jesus Christ, Atonement through
Matt. 8:17 Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses
Matt. 20:28 (1 Tim. 2:6) Son of man came … to give his life a ransom
Matt. 26:28 my blood … shed for many for the remission of sins
Luke 22:19 my body which is given for you
John 6:51 my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world
John 10:15 I lay down my life for the sheep
John 11:25 I am the resurrection, and the life
Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation
Rom. 5:9 justified by his blood, we shall be saved
Rom. 5:11 (5:6–21) Christ, by whom we have now received the a.
Rom. 8:32 spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us
2 Cor. 5:18 hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus
Eph. 2:16 reconcile both unto God … by the cross
Heb. 2:9 that he … should taste death for every man
Heb. 9:28 Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many
1 Pet. 2:21 Christ also suffered for us
1 Pet. 2:24 his own self bare our sins
1 Pet. 3:18 Christ also hath once suffered for sins
1 Jn. 1:7 blood of Jesus … cleanseth us from all sin
1 Jn. 2:2 he is the propitiation for our sins
1 Jn. 3:5 he was manifested to take away our sins
1 Jn. 4:10 sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins

zerinus

Continued . . . /