Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

[zerinus]

/. . . Continued

Jesus Christ, Mediator
John 14:6 no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
1 Tim. 2:5 one m. between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Heb. 12:24 Jesus the m. of the new covenant

Jesus Christ, Redeemer
Matt. 20:28 (1 Tim. 2:6) Son of man came … to give his life a ransom for many
Matt. 26:28 (Luke 22:20) blood … which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Luke 1:68 Lord God of Israel … redeemed his people
John 1:29 Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world
Rom. 3:24 through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Rom. 5:10 (Heb. 2:17) we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son
1 Cor. 15:3 Christ died for our sins
Gal. 1:4 who gave himself for our sins
Eph. 1:7 (Col. 1:14) we have redemption through his blood
Titus 2:14 he might redeem us from all iniquity
Heb. 9:12 by his own blood … obtained eternal redemption for us
Heb. 9:28 Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many
1 Pet. 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body
1 Pet. 3:18 Christ also hath once suffered for sins
1 Jn. 2:2 (4:10) he is the propitiation for our sins
Rev. 1:5 washed us from our sins in his own blood
Rev. 5:9 thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us

Jesus Christ, Savior
Luke 2:11 born … in the city of David a S., which is Christ
John 3:17 world through him might be saved
John 4:42 this is indeed the Christ, the S.
Acts 2:21 whosoever shall call on the … Lord shall be saved
Acts 4:12 none other name … whereby we must be saved
Acts 13:47 shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth
Philip. 3:20 we look for the S., the Lord Jesus Christ
1 Jn. 4:14 sent the Son to be the S.

Since the above posts give only tiny glimpses of each scriptural reference, I have decided to expand one of them below to add more meat and substance to it:

Colossians 1:12–20, 2:9:

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

---

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Did you get all of that? When you have decided to answer all of these scriptures for me, I will answer the ones you had given.

zerinus

 

[peary]

AbeOman;2985639:

COLOR=“Navy”]Please continue…

B. REGARDING JESUS BEING GOD.

"
A matter of importance, NO Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus (PBUH), in his teachings were and are all good, all righteous and all leading to the right path so and so forth. In a nutshell, I totally and divinely believe that Jesus was, is and will be all good, all love, all righteous and pious, he is the holly spirit, he is the word of God and he is one of the mightiest messengers of GOD.

COLOR]

One would think that to be a fulfilled Muslim, he or she would embrace Jesus as God’s one and only Son, not as mere prophet.

 

[mgrfin]

God bless !

Yes u are right. But I do not know if he will listen to such proofs ?

Of course their is the 2000 year History of the Church and her thousends of Saints, the miracles, and Christ did not leave us and also the Theotokos !

Christ and the Theotokos are working great miracles even in the moslem world like the resurrection of the arabian who was killed and cut in peaces and was brought back to life by the Mother of God.

In CHRIST

Miraculous!

peace

 

[AbeOman]

AbeOman;2985648:

One would think that to be a fulfilled Muslim, he or she would embrace Jesus as God’s one and only Son, not as mere prophet.

I would have and all Muslims would have, had there been a clear, precise and direct instructions informing us that Jesus was otherwise as God or the same as God Almighty.

Since we could not find that in the Bible then we turn to the Quran and the same clear, precise, and direct instructions is giving why Jesus was not God, not Son of God and with validations and reasoning.

So you see, it’ not what one likes to believe but rather what one is instructed or directed to do…!

Sad but that is how it is.

 

[peary]

peary;2989081:

I would have and all Muslims would have, had there been a clear, precise and direct instructions informing us that Jesus was otherwise as God or the same as God Almighty.

Since we could not find that in the Bible then we turn to the Quran and the same clear, precise, and direct instructions is giving why Jesus was not God, not Son of God and with validations and reasoning.

So you see, it’ not what one likes to believe but rather what one is instructed or directed to do…!

Sad but that is how it is.

Maybe you should try the Church. After all, the Church came BEFORE its Scriptures.

 

[AbeOman]

AbeOman;2989318:

Maybe you should try the Church. After all, the Church came BEFORE its Scriptures.

Actually, that may not be a bad idea, thanks for pointing that out.

I have a good friend who is also the catholic priest here in town, I hope we will be able to provide exactly what I’m looking for.

Thanks again and God Bless.

 

[Jesusisgod]

That’s why many die in their IGNORANCE.

They don’t even know what is in the scripture and what is not.

Jesus ADMITTED He is God. Want to know where?

Sorry, you got to read the bible for yourself. Nobody’s going to spoonfeed you for your salvation.

 

[zerinus]

I would have and all Muslims would have, had there been a clear, precise and direct instructions informing us that Jesus was otherwise as God or the same as God Almighty.

Oh, you must have missed my posts again! Here is where you can read them:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2988961&postcount=239
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2988967&postcount=240
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2988980&postcount=241

Since we could not find that in the Bible then we turn to the Quran and the same clear, precise, and direct instructions is giving why Jesus was not God, not Son of God and with validations and reasoning.

So you see, it’ not what one likes to believe but rather what one is instructed or directed to do…!

Sad but that is how it is.

You certainly do find that in the Bible; and those “clear, precise, and direct instructions” in the Koran are wrong! I realize that is hard for a Moslem to accept. The Koran is a good book. It contains many divine truths. I do not want to show any disrespect for the Koran. But what it teaches about Jesus and the Christian doctrine is wrong!

I believe that the Koran was changed. I believe all the signs indicate that Islam was originally a Christ-centered religion. But it was later changed in order to set it apart from historical Christianity, and turn it into a completely unique religion. The earliest rulers of Islam (after Mohamed) felt that that change was needed in order to strengthen their political position in a predominantly Christian world; therefore they made that change. I am strongly of the opinion that that is the case. There are some telltale signs in the history of early Islam that point in that direction.

zerinus

 

[Deconi]

You certainly do find that in the Bible; and those “clear, precise, and direct instructions” in the Koran (Book of Mormon) are wrong! I realize that is hard for a Moslem (Mormon) to accept. The Koran (Book of Mormon) is a good book. It contains many divine truths. I do not want to show any disrespect for the Koran (Book of Mormon). But what it teaches about Jesus and the Christian doctrine is wrong!

I believe that the Koran (Book of Mormon) was changed. I believe all the signs indicate that Islam (Mormonism) was originally a Christ-centered religion. But it was later changed in order to set it apart from historical Christianity, and turn it into a completely unique religion. The earliest rulers of Mormonism / Islam (after Smith + Mohamed) felt that that change was needed in order to strengthen their political position in a predominantly Christian world; therefore they made that change. I am strongly of the opinion that that is the case. There are some telltale signs in the history of early Islam (Mormonism) that point in that direction.

zerinus

Zerinus, you kill me!

 

[bogoljub]

God bless !

When millions saw the Theotokos in Egypt !

http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/zeitun.gif

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

http://www.geocities.com/junmeskie/MarZeitun.jpg

And all kinds of People saw Her christians, muslims, jews, atheists…

IN CHRIST

 

[zerinus]

Zerinus, you kill me!

I thought you was already dead!

But for your misguided information (I mean you are misguided, not the information ), the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and His death and resurrection are more affirmatively taught in the Book of Mormon than it is in the Bible. If you want to hijack this thread into a contest against Mormonism, feel free to do so; but be assured that I am ready and waiting to give you appropriate answers.

zerinus

 

[bogoljub]

God bless !

I think it is perhaps interesting to read some quotes of a muslim who converted to CHRIST. There are many today muslim converts today but many wish to but they fear that they will be killed and persecuted.

After John left, his influence stayed. I thought I would depress John by saying, “John, your visit made me a stronger Muslim in the faith and do not try to convert Muslims anymore.” Yet John prevailed in his supplication and prayers. His intercessory prayer moved to LORD to wake me up in the middle of the night as I had no sleep or rest. Inner conflict reached its zenith. Restless, I reached out to my Bible and opened it at random…* I found, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” For the first time in my life, I began asking the question “why?” and challenged everything I took for granted**. All postulates were critically examined. This got me into trouble in an authoritarian society. Questions, they say, fly in the face of Allah. Obey. That is All. In the Islamic Brotherhood, our motto was “samaana wa ataana” i.e. “we have heard and obeyed.” After years of study, I came to two logical conclusions: The Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and Jesus is the Word of God. I began to see it was possible for Jesus to be God. Intellectually, I accepted all the claims of the Christian faith, but in my heart I still feared being struck dead for calling the Almighty God:- “My Father.” I needed a miracle! The Bible teaches us that no one can say, “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). No wonder every Salvation experience is one of a miracle of birth out of death into eternal life!

From the depth of my heart, in the midst of inner conflict, I cried out to Allah, even in the mosque, "Lord, show me the truth! Is it Jesus or Muhammad? Could it be that You are my Father? Show me the truth, and the truth you lead me to I will serve all my life whatever the cost may be!" I burst into tears since I knew the cost could be outrageously too high for a weak, thin person like me. For how could I afford to be cast out of my family and sleep on the streets like a homeless person? And what if my leaders in the Islamic Brotherhood would find out about me? And what if they, in their Islamic righteously and zeal, rush on to defend Islam and kill me? According to the Islamic religion, an apostate should be given a three day opportunity to recant, and after that the infidel’s blood is legitimately shed in the name of Allah! The words of the Prophet Muhammad kept ringing in my ear, “Any person (i.e. Muslim) who has changed his religion, kill him.” T his tradition has been narrated by Abu Bakr, Uthman, Ali, Muadhibn Jabal, and Khalid ibn Walid. Yet I persisted in asking God to guide me.

One night Christ appeared to me in a dream and said with a tender sweet voice, “I love you!” I saw how obstinately I had resisted Him all these years and said to Him in tear, “I love You, too! I know You! You are eternal for ever and ever.” I woke up with tears all over my face filled with abundant joy, believing that Christ Himself touched both my mind and my heart, and I yielded. **I was filled with great passion for Christ, jumping up and down, singing praises to His name and talking to Him day and night. I would not even sleep without God’s inerrant Word, the Bible, next to my chest. ***

Glory to thee O God, glory to thee !

In CHRIST,our true God

If have many other stories of muslim converts and stories about great miracles of CHRIST in the muslim world.

 

[Deconi]

I thought you was already dead!

But for your misguided information (I mean you are misguided, not the information ), the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and His death and resurrection are more affirmatively taught in the Book of Mormon than it is in the Bible.

Right about there we part ways. To suggest the inspired Word of The Eternal One is lesser, (Bible) in any degree, to a fiction of man’s delusional imagination, is disgusting to me. Vile, even!

Comparisons during discussions is one thing. To suggest superiority over Scriptures borders on, nay, IS, blasphemous.

Some may still hold to the subjective arguments about the legitimacy and authenticity of the BOM. I do not.
zerinus;2990023:

If you want to hijack this thread into a contest against Mormonism, feel free to do so; but be assured that I am ready and waiting to give you appropriate answers.

zerinus

I’m sorry Zerinus. You are my brother in Christ. But I have deduced from yours posts that you no longer search for Truth but vying your wares for sale, as it were. How can we discuss these matters under your premise? It is like arguing a work of Shakespeare with a person who has only the commentary of the piece, not the actual play or book!

To engage you, I’d have to not only descend to the arena of battle, but have to bring a shovel to dig my way down to find the tunnel(s) where you dwell.

As I said before, whilst you continue to follow Joseph Smith, you may as well be following Mohammed. Whilst both were illuminated by The Light, they chose to hide in the shadows and use the effect of that Light to write their own versions!

 

[De_Maria]

Thanks for making me laugh that is very nice of you, but to be a good muslim, I have to treat you with fairness, justice and respect

That isn’t true. Islam is distinctly different from the Christianity as it teaches a distinction between male Muslims and every other human being. That is why the Quran has led to the establishment of Sharia Law in which no one has rights except Muslims and male Muslims have greater rights than females.

and that goes for whatever you believe, religion or faith is not for me or any person but for God and the individual.

This is true. But you either got this teaching from your own conscience or from Christianity. Not from Islam.

Now, why did not our lord Jesus say “Son of God” instead of “Son of man” he or god must have known that today someone like me who loves him so much would want know and understand him very clear terms…

What honestly want understand is the significance of the terms “Son of God” and “Son of Man” as used by Jesus? Did He use the former to stress His deity and the latter to stress His humanity, or is there something more to this?

I bow to the responses by InJesus and others.

Also, “Son of man” appears some 109 times in the King James Version of the Old Testament. but How many times “Son of God” appears?
Furthermore, “Son of man” appears some 109 times in the King James Version of the Old Testament.
I tried to understand this **Luke 5:16 “And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God.” **

And you can see clearly that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher than him and stronger than him.I believe you simply have an incomplete understanding of the Bible and Christian doctrine:

Yes, it is true, Jesus said,
John 14 28 You have heard that I said to you: I go away, and I come unto you. If you loved me, you would indeed be glad, because I go to the Father: for the Father is greater than I.

But Jesus also said,
John 10
30 I and the Father are one.

And although Jesus calls His Father, “God”.
John 20
17 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and to your God.

God the Father also calls Jesus, “God”.

Hebrews 1
9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And thus God the Father recognizes the Divinity of His Son.

Jesus was God’s servant and he prayed to God so God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.
Also, in **Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying ‘My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.’ **

**"

**Jesus is known for His humility: Matthew 11
29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.

He even emptied Himself of Divinity for a time and became lesser than the Angels:

Philippians 2
7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

But the Angels recognized His Divinity anyway and ministered to Him:
Matthew 4
11 Then the devil left him; and behold angels came and ministered to him.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

CONT’D

Here in this verse you can see two things: (1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience. (2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creator of this Universe, the all knowing, most powerful??!!

Excellent question! The answer is a mystery. We only know what is revealed.

Here is the crux of the difference between the Quran and Christianity. This is the reason why someone called you a Mohammedan and you were insulted. But it remains true whether you like it or not. In order to believe in the Quran, you must put aside logic and have faith in a man who had no evidence for the truth of his claims.

In order to believe in Jesus Christ, we must also set aside “human” logic. BUT we can have faith in Jesus Christ because of the abundance of evidence and eyewitness testimony which verified what He claimed. He said He would raise Himself from the dead. Even if there were no eyewitnesses to His Resurrection, there were eyewitnesses to his resurrecting Lazarus and the widow’s son and the minster’s daughter Tabitha.

And compared to Mohammed, Jesus is eminently trustworthy. Jesus did not teach the value of lying, as did Mohammed.

Also, see Matthew 26:42 “Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.’” My comments on this verse are similar to the above one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn’t will it by himself.

Because He and the Father are one.

Furthermore, take at **Matthew 26:44 “So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word.” **

You see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above.
Now, what I want understand is, our lord Jesus never said clearly that I’m god and worship me, Yet that is precisely why the Jews wanted Him killed:
John 10
32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father;** for which of these works do you stone me?** 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and** because** that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God.

he never said clearly that I’m Son of God the almighty and I don’t mean in the biological sense of the word and we all know that God did not fathered Jesus biologically so as Millions and millions of Muslim now too. So how made him to be god almighty, the creator of this universe, of me and all of us on this forum.

That is the million dollar question isn’t it? If I knew that, I would be God. Let me give you the answer which God gave Job:

Job 38
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said:
2 Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? 3 Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

My Priest friend tells me that Lord Jesus is both man and God, i.e. while he was on earth eating honey comb and broiled, but up in heaven he is GOD. Is that the case?
Or he is wrong…?

Your Priest friend is probably right, but you misunderstood him. Yes, Jesus is man and God. Jesus is always man and God and remains man and God.

Now, if the Quran teaches that Jesus is the Word of God and the Spirit of God, how can you detach Jesus from God.

A word of mine emanates from me, from within me and goes outward to you. Therefore, if Jesus is the Word of God, He originated in God and emanated from God to us.

And my spirit dwells within me. Therefore if Jesus is the Spirit of God, then Jesus must dwell within Allah.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[peary]

**Originally Posted by AbeOman: **
I would have and all Muslims would have, had there been a clear, precise and direct instructions informing us that Jesus was otherwise as God or the same as God Almighty.

Like I said before, the CHURCH existed BEFORE its Sacred Scripture. It is the CHURCH which would have instructed you in the Truth otherwise, if you would have listened.

 

[Juda3]

I thought this was a monotheistic religion? If Jesus is the son of god douse god also have a wife? Was god mad at Jesus and sent him to earth as a sacrifice? Why douse god need to have blood to forgive sin? Why is god more likely to forgive us after killing his son- himself. How can someone be there own father is it some kind of cloning process?

 

[GaryTaylor]

I thought this was a monotheistic religion? If Jesus is the son of god douse god also have a wife? Was god mad at Jesus and sent him to earth as a sacrifice? Why douse god need to have blood to forgive sin? Why is god more likely to forgive us after killing his son- himself. How can someone be there own father is it some kind of cloning process?

Because He is GOD, and He can do anything He so desires. Do you think God should be limited? Where would you get that idea from?

God doesn’t need a wife, Hes GOD, and the WORD became Flesh. There a new Book out its been the bestseller in Mans History, its called the Holy Bible. You should pick one up and this questions will be put to rest for you.

 

[GaryTaylor]

peary;2989081:

I would have and all Muslims would have, had there been a clear, precise and direct instructions informing us that Jesus was otherwise as God or the same as God Almighty.

Since we could not find that in the Bible then we turn to the Quran and the same clear, precise, and direct instructions is giving why Jesus was not God, not Son of God and with validations and reasoning.

So you see, it’ not what one likes to believe but rather what one is instructed or directed to do…!

Sad but that is how it is.

You you must have glossed over the Sermon on the Mount. I can assure you this, the Christians and Jews didn’t miss the point that Christ is God.

Sad but that is how it is.

And what is one instructed or directed to do by Allah? Thats what we “all” would like to know. Seems this mystery you missed in the Bible, brings us around to the mystery we all seem to be missing in the most Holy revered quran:shrug:

 

[Publisher]

Did Jesus of Bible claimed he is God in any book of Bibles?

Here is a typical answer from a Christian:

Does this “answer” make any sense at all?

I do not believe Jesus ever claimed to be God incarnate…but his followers eventually did and have him saying so in the gospels they wrote…at least in “John’s” gospel…the writer has Jesus claiming to be the “I AM”.

It became the testimony of the Johanine faith community that Jesus of Nazareth was God’s Word made flesh.