Did Jesus Really Son of God/God or The Prophet

[inJESUS]

Hello Everyone Again, I guess no body has the answer or verses from bible explaining who is he really was.

that was not your question.

By this Ayat its mentioning Isa(Jesus) as Messenger or Prophet.

 

[inJESUS]

Does the belief in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a ‘son of God’ really make sense?

 

[impalass]

yes because He says so. So making sense or not is not a problem if we believe in Him.

 

[inJESUS]

muhammad said this, not me.

 

[planten]

in its self the law can not save a person,it only can condemn one.with out the law there would be no sin.if there is no law one can not transgress the law.Jesus Himself is not personaly cursed He did in fact took on the sins of mankind so as to free mankind from the law.then again comes the question exactly which law are we talking about?

**Quite a complicated reply, does not make any sense because it is so much involved matter. Still does not explain why Jesus always lived under the law. It was not Jesus who said good-bye to the law. Nor his disciples did it. I feel that it was paul who taught that false idea.

So it means that christians are following paul and not christ. So I should not call them christians any more?**

 

[planten]

inJESUS;3429273:

You say how can Allah have a son if he has no wife. As catholics believe in Adam & Eve…(not a believer here) When Adam and Eve had children, who did they marry? Siblings marry each other? Goes against all my moral beliefs and everyone else I would think. But I am sure you will piece to together an answer. Adam lived to be 935…now how did he do that?

** It is interesting that bible tells the life of man on the earth as something like 6000 years only. That is another faulty statement because it is not true…**

 

[impalass]

impalass;3429320:

** It is interesting that bible tells the life of man on the earth as something like 6000 years only. That is another faulty statement because it is not true…**

The bible doesn’t directly say the world is about 6000 years old. The jewish calander I believe states this is year 5769??. You can piece together all the characters in the bible and go back in time… Remember the bible said Adam lived to be 935 years old…WOW! (another bible falicy) People believe this stuff. Never hear people question it. Must be true! (not for me)

If christians believe the 6000 year story then I guess there were no dinasours 75 million years ago, and the ice age never happened even 15,000 years ago, and rotted matter that decayed into coal and diamonds did not evolve over millions of years?   Before homo sapians ( a lot longer then 6000 years)  we had neandrathal people it shows it on the evolution chart and lots of evidence (PROOF) to substantiate that, but conservative christians don't want to believe the chart. They don't want to believe there even is a chart!   Why because their faith tells them that.  A deep voice says  ITS  A SIN  DON'T BELIEVE THAT.......OK!  OK!  (LOL)   I believe there was a man named Jesus.   There is enough history pieced together to substantiate that (even though his name was Jeshua, and he wasn't born on christmas day, probably born in early April but here we go again through family tradition christians want him born on christmas day.   Its similar to the stanta claus story.  Born on christmas day, santa comes on christmas day.   We want jesus and santa to be just the way we know them through family tradition.  Jesus died for our sins?  Why did he not live for our sins?     Why did he die at all?   If Eve committed a sin years before why did god make it mankinds problem?  A sin against all humanity for eating  a piece of forbidden fruit as we were all taught as catholics...Doesn;t make one bit of sense!   Throughout our daily lives we would never except someone else causing a problem and we got blamed for it?   But because its the Adam & Eve Story catholics believe......because they are told to believe!   Its a fear instilled from an early age!   We are fearful beings.   A childrens story at best.......

 

[inJESUS]

**Quite a complicated reply, does not make any sense because it is so much involved matter. Still does not explain why Jesus always lived under the law. It was not Jesus who said good-bye to the law. Nor his disciples did it. I feel that it was paul who taught that false idea.

So it means that christians are following paul and not christ. So I should not call them christians any more?**

Paul was not alone…he had other disciples with him, including Peter, giving teachings about the law. Things are not that complicated that you keep making the same mistake. The disciples were met with difficult situations where clashing arose between the Jews who became Christians, and the gentiles who became Christians. These Jews wanted to judaize the gentiles…when these Jews met the disciples, the disciple made sure to explain that gentiles are NOT bound by the Mosaic Law because they are NOT Jews in the first place and because what saves is God, not the law…so any non-Jew who wants to become Christian does NOT have to follow the laws of Jews regarding circumcision and other rituals…but if he wants to he surely can.

As to salvation through the Law, the point being explained is that if there is no law, there is no sin…and if there is no sin, there is no law…if you do not know that stealing is haram and you steal, you did not sin because stealing is not mentioned as haram…when the Law talks about stealing, you are then condemned by the Law…in this sense the law condemns, because it points out your sins…so what saves is not the law that points out your sins, but God Himself…and when Jesus gave up His life for humans, He offered it for the Jew and the gentile, for the circumcized and the non-circumcized and hence Jews cannot force these laws on gentiles who were saved by Jesus and not themselves or their rituals…

 

[tomshaikh]

why not Muhammad, the Khatamu al anbiya?and why will Jesus return again?

 

[inJESUS]

planten;3429600:

The bible doesn’t directly say the world is about 6000 years old. The jewish calander I believe states this is year 5769??. early age! We are fearful beings. A childrens story at best…

you can hate God, hate religion, hate yourself if you want…you can do whatever you want…but when you want to discuss, you’ve got to search before nitpicking a language, a style, and a calender known thousands of years ago and that cannot be understood by a 21 century mind in the same way it was understood or even meant before…you can stay on the surface if you just want to find any reason to hate religion and the possibility of God’s existence, and you can try to at least try to understand what people, thousands of years ago, meant by the use of numbers, language, and metaphores known back then…if you fing difficulty understanding the words and imagery of lets say amercan or british writers 300 years ago, what do you expect from Hebrews, alien to your culture, alien to your language, and alien to your metaphores and way of thinking?

In the Midrash (Vayikra Rabba 29:1), an expansion of the Talmud, all the Sages agree that Rosh Hashana commemorates the soul of Adam, and that the Six Days of Genesis are separate.

Why were the Six Days taken out of the calendar? Because time is described differently in those Six Days of Genesis. “There was evening and morning” is an exotic, bizarre, unusual way of describing time.

Once you come from Adam, the flow of time is totally in human terms. Adam and Eve live 130 years before having children! Seth lives 105 years before having children, etc. From Adam forward, the flow of time is totally human in concept. But prior to that time, it’s an abstract concept: “Evening and morning.” It’s as if you’re looking down on events from a viewpoint that is not intimately related to them.

The Talmud (Chagiga, ch. 2) tells us that from the opening sentence of the Bible, through the beginning of Chapter Two, the entire text is given in parable form, a poem with a text and a subtext.

King David says, “One thousand years in Your (God’s) sight are like a day that passes, a watch in the night.”

Time as presented in the Bible was not, and is not meant to be a scientific representation of truth…when you understand this, you’ll realize that your approach to scriptures, or even to a book of thousands of years of age, is too superfical.

 

[impalass]

impalass;3429693:

you can hate God, hate religion, hate yourself if you want…you can do whatever you want…but when you want to discuss, you’ve got to search before nitpicking a language, a style, and a calender known thousands of years ago and that cannot be understood by a 21 century mind in the same way it was understood or even meant before…you can stay on the surface if you just want to find any reason to hate religion and the possibility of God’s existence, and you can try to at least try to understand what people, thousands of years ago, meant by the use of numbers, language, and metaphores known back then…if you fing difficulty understanding the words and imagery of lets say amercan or british writers 300 years ago, what do you expect from Hebrews, alien to your culture, alien to your language, and alien to your metaphores and way of thinking?

In the Midrash (Vayikra Rabba 29:1), an expansion of the Talmud, all the Sages agree that Rosh Hashana commemorates the soul of Adam, and that the Six Days of Genesis are separate.

Why were the Six Days taken out of the calendar? Because time is described differently in those Six Days of Genesis. “There was evening and morning” is an exotic, bizarre, unusual way of describing time.

Once you come from Adam, the flow of time is totally in human terms. Adam and Eve live 130 years before having children! Seth lives 105 years before having children, etc. From Adam forward, the flow of time is totally human in concept. But prior to that time, it’s an abstract concept: “Evening and morning.” It’s as if you’re looking down on events from a viewpoint that is not intimately related to them.

The Talmud (Chagiga, ch. 2) tells us that from the opening sentence of the Bible, through the beginning of Chapter Two, the entire text is given in parable form, a poem with a text and a subtext.

King David says, “One thousand years in Your (God’s) sight are like a day that passes, a watch in the night.”

Time as presented in the Bible was not, and is not meant to be a scientific representation of truth…when you understand this, you’ll realize that your approach to scriptures, or even to a book of thousands of years of age, is too superfical.

First,  I never stated anywhere on this forum that I hated God.  An assumption by you!.    The time presented in the Bible was not meant to be scientific representative fo truth....you say.   Where did you get that information?   Another assumption.   Its very clear in the bible about time.  Its states in genesis that god created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. I remember growing up catholic teachers telling us that it was 7 periods of time that could have been thousands of years..Don't know why they taught us that nonsense.   It says clearly in the bible on the 7th day god rested.  We still follow that tradition today.......sunday is the sabbath and its the day of rest.  Not another period of time not another day but sunday.  Previous to christianity the sabbath was saturday the bible tells us.  Right?   Right!    but christians did everything they could do to get away from jewish tradition even changed  gods day off making sunday the new sabbath.  Thats very clear to me.  Doesn't have to be scientific.

Lets not forget what this forum is about.  Its not to get you upset because someone else has a different opinion then you.   Its called was Jesus really the son of God........I have explained myself.  No need for you to get upset and make a lot of assumptions about me.   Your neighbors down your street might have a completely different interpretation about what they believe.   WHY!   Because of family tradition.   Family tradition from an early age of being indoctrinated into the faith and by the most part thats all catholics were allowed to learn about including me.   Age of reason should be the time people decide whether they want to believe if Jesus is the son of God.  Not having your parents DECIDE FOR  YOU  or my parents decide for me at 4 months old in the baptism basin   Remember no where in the bible does it ever mention infant baptisms.  As the story goes Jesus was baptized by his cousin John at about age 30.......thats more then the age of reason and makes more sense then indoctrination.  (unless you converted of your own free will) thats another story entirely.   Religion is basically a family tradition!

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3429070:

---

Hi,

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) mission accomplished in this world which Allah/God told him to spread. And no body come to life after his death until Allah/God permission. Jesus by Quran didn’t die and Allah/God has some purpose for Jesus to be accomplish on earth which let Jesus alive and raise him up in heaven.And Jesus will be returing back on judgement day to earth to accomplish Allah/God will.

ok so let me get this straight. Muhammad will not return because he accomplished his mission on earth. Jesus will return because He did not accomplish His mission on earth? why didn’t Jesus accomplish His mission on earth?

if the answer is : because Jews wanted to kill Him so Allah raised Him, this begs another question :
1-what about all the prophets you believe were killed…why didn’t Allah raise them as well before getting killed? and did they accomplish all their mission before getting killed?

2- Allah had to raise Jesus from earth , without accomplishing His mission, keep Him alive for thousands of years, and then send Him back to accomplish it and die? and what will He accomplish now that He did not 2000 years ago?

 

[inJESUS]

your attitude, and the anger in your posts give this impression of you…this is none of my business …but at least it will show you what your attitude is reflecting…nothing less nothing more…

The time presented in the Bible was not meant to be scientific representative fo truth…you say. Where did you get that information? Another assumption.

i did not write the Talmud…these were explanations thousands of years ago, before scientific discoveries…so to claim that the Bible teaches this science or that science is not accurate…if you say SOME people think this, fine…in the same way some people think that you should really smash your eye if it makes you lust after someone…

Its very clear in the bible about time. Its states in genesis that god created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. I remember growing up catholic teachers telling us that it was 7 periods of time that could have been thousands of years…Don’t know why they taught us that nonsense. It says clearly in the bible on the 7th day god rested. We still follow that tradition today…sunday is the sabbath and its the day of rest. Not another period of time not another day but sunday. Previous to christianity the sabbath was saturday the bible tells us. Right? Right! but christians did everything they could do to get away from jewish tradition even changed gods day off making sunday the new sabbath. Thats very clear to me. Doesn’t have to be scientific.

the sabbath and Lord’s day is another issue you need to search …
as to the 6 days, no one denies it…but we deny saying that the Bible talks about 24 hours/day, for example…yes a day could mean a thousand day or a million day or 2 mn…to assign only one understanding to an abstract idea of time is not accurate especially because the Bible does not present it as such…

Your neighbors down your street might have a completely different interpretation about what they believe. WHY!

becase the Bible is so rich and so beautiful and so deep that a literal one-way reading deprives you of its richness and beauty…it’s like reading about Jesus cursing the fig tree without understanding its theological implications from the OT…it’d be simply Jesus cursing a tree when the meaning is much deeper than that…

Age of reason should be the time people decide whether they want to believe if Jesus is the son of God. Not having your parents DECIDE FOR YOU or my parents decide for me at 4 months old in the baptism basin

what your parents do is join you to Jesus’ family…another branch in the tree…you can leave whenever you want…baptism will not stop you from leaving…it does not ruin your life, does it? no one can make you believe what you don’t want to believe, especiaally in your fifties…thousands on this forum speak their own faith and what they truly believe in…

Remember no where in the bible does it ever mention infant baptisms. As the story goes Jesus was baptized by his cousin John at about age 30…thats more then the age of reason and makes more sense then indoctrination.

if you do care that much about God and Jesus, why would it upset you to be baptised since second 1 of your life even if the Bible does not explicitely say it? the Bible does not say either that you can ONLY be baptised as an adult…only someone who doesn’t love to be joined to Jesus’ church since day 1 would be so upset about it…but if you love Jesus, why would you be upset of what your parents did, mainly join you to the family of all the people who lived in Jesus for thousands of years, even the first day you were born?

 

[impalass]

your attitude, and the anger in your posts give this impression of you…this is none of my business …but at least it will show you what your attitude is reflecting…nothing less nothing more…

I am not trying to be sarcastic, but reading some of your words and statements makes me believe that you are more in love with Jesus (almost in a physical sense) or as much as you are about his teachings. I have heard other catholics talk like this as well. Again to believe his teachings is one thing but to want to be at his feet as you say, or continually say that you love Jesus seems too physically attracted to Jesus then you should be…When a male talks more of love and physical attraction and more often of another male (a being or a spirit) then he does his spouse makes me wonder . Homosexuality is very prevelant among strong spiritual people…especially priests/Bishops etc…reminds me of young girls that get all excited about rock stars. They have this mind set that these guys can do no wrong and they are there for only them…maybe I am wrong. But I am pretty street wise and a good judge of character…

Again at this point in my life I believe in a higher power or force. A power that does not get involved with daily activities in our lives. Things happen because they happen. The Jesus story seems to (lets make the story fit) to me. Christianity in the old western christian countries is fast disappearing as new generations are less religiously observant then previous ones. Many young people today from christian backgrounds question their faith as they find other priorities in their lives. Africa, south and central america will soon be the new direction for the catholic church as catholicism is growing very quickly in those regions. New traditions about Jesus will soon replace the old culture ones that we have known for centuries Within a generation more questions will arise is Jesus really the son of God?

 

[sneakers]

Jesus is God incarnate, the second person of the trinity. True God and True Man.

For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.
For those who do believe, no explanation is necessary.

 

[fbl9]

inJESUS;3430066:

I am not trying to be sarcastic, but reading some of your words and statements makes me believe that you are more in love with Jesus (almost in a physical sense) or as much as you are about his teachings. I have heard other catholics talk like this as well. Again to believe his teachings is one thing but to want to be at his feet as you say, or continually say that you love Jesus seems too physically attracted to Jesus then you should be…When a male talks more of love and physical attraction and more often of another male (a being or a spirit) then he does his spouse makes me wonder . Homosexuality is very prevelant among strong spiritual people…especially priests/Bishops etc…reminds me of young girls that get all excited about rock stars. They have this mind set that these guys can do no wrong and they are there for only them…maybe I am wrong. But I am pretty street wise and a good judge of character…

…i guess i am a homo because i love my male friends???a spirit has no gender.a spirit has no matter to make up a gender.the Church has been teaching since the acension of Christ it has taken no doctrines away but has grown.all living things grow.one starts life as a baby,then toddler,and so on but one thing never changes the fact that they are human.if one does not God to be part of thier life then why would He bother to be part of their daily life.

 

[fbl9]

**Quite a complicated reply, does not make any sense because it is so much involved matter. Still does not explain why Jesus always lived under the law. It was not Jesus who said good-bye to the law. Nor his disciples did it. I feel that it was paul who taught that false idea.

So it means that christians are following paul and not christ. So I should not call them christians any more?**

there is the law of nature…the law of sin…the Mosiac law…God’s law.thanks for the post on this matter inJesus.

 

[ryanoneil]

**Quite a complicated reply, does not make any sense because it is so much involved matter. Still does not explain why Jesus always lived under the law. It was not Jesus who said good-bye to the law. Nor his disciples did it. I feel that it was paul who taught that false idea.
**

At that time Jesus was going through a field of grain on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick the heads 2 of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “See, your disciples are doing what is unlawful to do on the sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry, how he went into the house of God and ate the bread of offering, which neither he nor his companions but only the priests could lawfully eat? Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests serving in the temple violate the sabbath and are innocent? I say to you, something greater than the temple is here. If you knew what this meant, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned these innocent men. For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.” (Mat 12:1-8

Jesus didn’t live under the law. He is IS the Law.

Immediately the man became well, took up his mat, and walked. Now that day was a sabbath. So the Jews said to the man who was cured, “It is the sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to carry your mat.” He answered them, “The man who made me well told me, ‘Take up your mat and walk.’” They asked him, “Who is the man who told you, ‘Take it up and walk’?” The man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away, since there was a crowd there. After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, “Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you.” The man went and told the Jews that Jesus was the one who had made him well. Therefore, the Jews began to persecute Jesus because he did this on a sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is at work until now, so I am at work.” For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God. (John 5:8-18)

Jesus is not under the Law, He is IS the Law

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. (Mat 5:17)

"**You have heard that it was said **to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment (Mat 5:21-22a)

Read the rest of the chapter. Do you see how many times Jesus says You have heard it said . . . but I say to you?

Jesus is not under the Law, He is IS the Law.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[planten]

There seems to be a bad way of posting here. Please see below:

Originally Posted by planten

The bible doesn’t directly say the world is about 6000 years old. The jewish calander I believe states this is year 5769??. early age! We are fearful beings. A childrens story at best…

**I never wrote those words. Even though inJesus posted about impalass on top but the post links me with these words and I have observed the same things with some of the other posts of inJesus. Could this not be rectified please. It gives a wrong impression.

The words shown above are not my words at all. I am not so smart as to have a good knowledge of the Jewish matters and their calendar. Please correct things. Thanks. **

 

[impalass]

Just some statistic information: Worldwide

                                 Christian                Muslim

 1900                           26.9%                    12.4%

 1980                           30%                       16.5%

 2000                           29.9%                    19.2%

projected 2025 25% 30%

Muslims are growing worldwide currently at 2.9%.  .6% faster then the world population.  Old western countries are abandoning christianity at an alarming rate......Why?   The USA still has strong christian religious beliefs but they too are eroding.  3 to 6 million Muslims now live in America.  Within a period of time they will have a say in our government as they will run in elections in strong muslim communities and their beliefs will start to reflect in our laws of the land.  It might take a couple generations but its coming!

Big changes in our cultures are coming as Muslims increase in numbers.

This again must have something to do with  Is Jesus really the Son of God..........and the numbers are reflecting this now. More and more christians question their faith.   It shows that christianity is having a hard time keeping the people they currently have and new generations are going elsewhere.   Our grandchildren are going to see these changes!