Did Jesus Say he was God?

[Jimmy_B]

JMJ
patg,

patg:

.

I’m not doing anything other than saying that the early historical gospels fail to support the claim. I’ve already stated what I have learned from gospel scholars regarding John’s gospel.

Divinity is not “proven” in a scientific way, with court-of-law evidence, or with third-hand reports of oral traditions - it is a component of the supernatural which is a matter of faith. The gospels are manifestations of this faith - especially John’s.

patg,
Here is recorded information regarding Jesus found outside of John. In fact this information is contained in a historical document found outside the bible.

Jesus

, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man;
Here there is even a question has to whether or not Jesus was a mere “man” or something much more, possible “divine and human”? Your thoughts?

1. But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with the sacred money, and derived the origin of the stream from the distance of two hundred furlongs. However, the Jews

(8) were not pleased with what had been done about this water; and many ten thousands of the people got together, and made a clamor against him, and insisted that he should leave off that design. Some of them also used reproaches, and abused the man, as crowds of such people usually do. So he habited a great number of his soldiers in their habit, who carried daggers under their garments, and sent them to a place where they might surround them. So he bid the Jews himself go away; but they boldly casting reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; who laid upon them much greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were tumultuous, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least: and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them slain by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this sedition.

1. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, **if it be lawful to call him a man; **for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII

****CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF THIRTY-TWO YEARS. ****

****FROM THE BANISHMENT OF ARCHELUS TO THE DEPARTURE FROM **BABYLON. **

CHAPTER 1.

HOW CYRENIUS WAS SENT BY CAESAR TO MAKE A TAXATION OF SYRIA AND JUDEA; AND HOW COPONIUS WAS SENT TO BE PROCURATOR OF JUDEA; CONCERNING JUDAS OF GALILEE AND CONCERNING THE SECTS THAT WERE AMONG THE JEWS.

 

[Jimmy_B]

JMJ

Patg,

With all your argument against the Divinity of Jesus Christ, this verse apparently doesn’t worry you?

John 8

24 “That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."

58 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you,** before** Abraham came to be, I AM.”

See Exodus 3:14 -

Exodus 3
14 God replied, “I am who am.” Then he added, “This is what you shall tell the Israelites**: I AM** sent me to you.”

“I AM”: this utterance is the source of the word Yahweh, the proper personal name of the God of Israel**.**

---

Continued -

 

[Jimmy_B]

JMJ
And **Patg, **
If you are a Catholic you are apparently not concern with The Catholic Church’s position on this issue.
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC-464-466)

III. TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN

464 The unique and altogether singular event of the Incarnation of the Son of God does not mean that Jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the result of a confused mixture of the **divine and the human. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man. **

During the first centuries, the **Church had to defend and clarify this truth of faith against the heresies that falsified it. **

465 The first heresies denied not so much Christ’s divinity as his true humanity (Gnostic Docetism). From apostolic times the Christian faith has insisted on the true incarnation of God’s Son “come in the flesh”.87 But already in the third century, the Church in a council at Antioch had to affirm against Paul of Samosata that Jesus Christ is Son of God by nature and not by adoption. The first ecumenical council of Nicaea in 325 confessed in its Creed that the Son of God is “begotten, not made, of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father”, and condemned Arius, who had affirmed that the Son of God “came to be from things that were not” and that he was “from another substance” than that of the Father.88

466 The Nestorian **heresy **regarded Christ as a human person joined to the divine person of God’s Son. Opposing this heresy, St. Cyril of Alexandria and the third ecumenical council, at Ephesus in 431, confessed "that the Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."89 Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it and made it his own, from his conception. For this reason the Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: "Mother of God, not that the nature of the Word or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born from her, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh."90

Continued -

 

[Jimmy_B]

JMJ

**Patg, **

Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC-466-467)
III. TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN - continued

466 The Nestorian **heresy **regarded Christ as a human person joined to the divine person of God’s Son. Opposing this heresy, St. Cyril of Alexandria and the third ecumenical council, at Ephesus in 431, confessed "that the Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."89 Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it and made it his own, from his conception. For this reason the Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: "Mother of God, not that the nature of the Word or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born from her, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh."90

467 The Monophysites affirmed that the human nature had ceased to exist as such in Christ when the divine person of God’s Son assumed it. Faced with this heresy, the fourth ecumenical council, at Chalcedon in 451, confessed:

*Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; “like us in all things but sin”. He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.91 *

We confess that one and the same Christ, Lord, and only-begotten Son, is to be acknowledged in two natures without confusion*, change, division or separation. The distinction between the natures was never abolished by their union, but rather the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one person (prosopon*) and one hypostasis.92

continued -
God Bless!

 

[Jimmy_B]

patg,

Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC-467-469)
III. TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN - continued

467 The Monophysites affirmed that the human nature had ceased to exist as such in Christ when the divine person of God’s Son assumed it. Faced with this heresy, the fourth ecumenical council, at Chalcedon in 451, confessed:

*Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; “like us in all things but sin”. He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.91 *

We confess that one and the same Christ, Lord, and only-begotten Son, is to be acknowledged in two natures without confusion*, change, division or separation. The distinction between the natures was never abolished by their union, but rather the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one person (prosopon*) and one hypostasis.92

[468](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/468.htm’) After the Council of Chalcedon, some made of Christ’s human nature a kind of personal subject. Against them, the fifth ecumenical council, at Constantinople in 553**, confessed that "there is but one *hypostasis ***[or person], which is our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Trinity."93 Thus everything in Christ’s human nature is to be attributed to his divine person as its proper subject, not only his miracles but also his sufferings and even his death: "He who was crucified in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, is true God, Lord of glory, and one of the Holy Trinity."94

[469](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/469.htm’)** The Church thus confesses that Jesus is inseparably true God and true man. He is truly the Son of God who, without ceasing to be God and Lord, became a man and our brother:**

God Bless!

 

[Uracan]

Jimmy B writes,

I love people who make a big deal out of nothing. You know who I’m talking about, those who think everything is a conspiracy and see something where there is nothing. There is no big coincidence or conspiracy behind the Holy Trinity*. *

The fact that a trinity might have occurred in the pecan religion means absolutely nothing! This has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism. Trinities or patterns of “three” are everywhere and indicate the wholeness of life or the threefold nature of being, which is a trinity. “Threes” are a natural occurrence in life. There are a lot of things, which are described in the form of a “trinity” or “threes”.
Jimmy B, I’m glad that you love people that make a big deal out of nothing—it’s the Christian thing to do. Oh, you mean me?—I’m making a big deal out of nothing! Honestly, it appears that your dander is up and I’m not sure what’s bothering you. I’m just pointing out that we have evidence that Man had a concept of the trinity for about 6,000 years and early Christian’s sects fought over the concept. What’s the conspiracy?

Understand your history. You’ll see that the early Christian sects made the Trinity an divisive issue to gain power. Contrary to dogma I don’t believe that believing in the Trinity concept is necessary to be a good Catholic. The Church has made many errors throughout its existence, and I shall not blindly accept them and neither shall I leave the Church because it has committed them.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Uracan:

Jimmy B writes,

Jimmy B, I’m glad that you love people that make a big deal out of nothing—it’s the Christian thing to do. Oh, you mean me?—I’m making a big deal out of nothing! Honestly, it appears that your dander is up and I’m not sure what’s bothering you. I’m just pointing out that we have evidence that Man had a concept of the trinity for about 6,000 years and early Christian’s sects fought over the concept. What’s the conspiracy?

Understand your history. You’ll see that the early Christian sects made the Trinity an divisive issue to gain power. Contrary to dogma I don’t believe that believing in the Trinity concept is necessary to be a good Catholic. The Church has made many errors throughout its existence, and I shall not blindly accept them and neither shall I leave the Church because it has committed them.

Uracan,

Everythings OK, my “dander” isn’t up? It’s takes a lot to get me exited. I wasn’t talking about you directing when I said, “you know who I’m taking about". Although, I do disagree with you and think that, yes to be a “good” Catholic or Christian for that matter (by definition) you have to except the trinity. I’m sorry if I offended you in any way. There are times when I come to the forums after I read something on the web, somewhere else and I think that’s what happened here. You made some good points. Let me think about what you said and I’ll get back with you. In the mean time, I would like to see the material in which you are basing your opinion on. Thanks for the post.

God Bless!

 

[Jimmy_B]

Uracan,

I’m curious, did you ever get past the part in my post, where you thought I was talking about you? If so, did you actually read what I wrote in my post regarding “trinities” and series of “three”. Maybe you can tell me what part of that argument you disagree with and why? Can you back up the “facts” that you have cited in your post with some sort of material or reference I can look at or research to try and understand why you have reached the conclusion you have. It’s hard for me to respond to, “historical facts”, if you don’t list your source(s).
.

"

*We must always be ready to inquire, in a rational way, into the things human reason can disclose concerning God." *
*—*Thomas Aquinas, Summa Contra Gentiles, I. 9. n. 4.

Thanks

God Bless!

 

[Jimmy_B]

"I don’t believe that believing in the Trinity concept is necessary to be a good Catholic. The Church has made many errors throughout its existence, and I shall not blindly accept them and neither shall I leave the Church because it has committed them."

Response:

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

I.** “IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT”**

232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"53 Before receiving the sacrament, they respond to a three-part question when asked to confess the Father, the Son and the Spirit: “I do.” "The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity."54

233 Christians are baptized in the *name *of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names,55 for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity.
234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the “hierarchy of the truths of faith”.56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men “and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin”.57

235 This paragraph expounds briefly (I) how the mystery of the Blessed Trinity was revealed, (II) how the Church has articulated the doctrine of the faith regarding this mystery, and (III) how, by the divine missions of the Son and the Holy Spirit, God the Father fulfills the “plan of his loving goodness” of creation, redemption and sanctification.

**236**The Fathers of the Church distinguish between theology (theologia) and economy (oikonomia). “Theology” refers to the mystery of God’s inmost life within the Blessed Trinity and “economy” to all the works by which God reveals himself and communicates his life. Through the oikonomia the theologia is revealed to us; but conversely, the theologia illuminates the whole oikonomia. God’s works reveal who he is in himself; the mystery of his inmost being enlightens our understanding of all his works. So it is, analogously, among human persons. A person discloses himself in his actions, and the better we know a person, the better we understand his actions.

If you don’t believe in the “Trinity” then by definition, you do not have Catholic or Christian beliefs.
1.

“The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity.”

“The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life” Something to think about.

God Bless.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: Trin·i·ty [%between%](javascriptopWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?trinit04.wav=Trinity’))
Pronunciation: 'tri-n&-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English *trinite, *from Old French *trinité, *from Late Latin *trinitat-, trinitas *state of being threefold, from Latin *trinus *threefold
1 : the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma
2 not capitalized : a group of three closely related persons or things
3 : the Sunday after Whitsunday observed as a feast in honor of the Trinity

 

[Jimmy_B]

[1266](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1266.htm’) The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification:

• enabling them to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him through the theological virtues;
• giving them the power to live and act under the prompting of the Holy Spirit through the gifts of the Holy Spirit;
• allowing them to grow in goodness through the moral virtues.
  Thus the whole organism of the Christian’s supernatural life has its roots in Baptism

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

1276 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” (*Mt *28:19-20).

1277 Baptism is birth into the new life in Christ. In accordance with the Lord’s will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism.

1278 The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jimmy_B]

JMJ
A lot of people don’t understand that, your religion, by definition, is not what you say it is. Your religion is what you believe. You can’t take a particular religion as “yours’ on your own terms. All religions distinguish themselves by specific rule-sets and specific beliefs. Different rule-sets and different beliefs equal different religions.

Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: re·li·gion

Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English *religioun, *from Latin *religion-, religio *supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from *religare *to restrain, tie back – more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> **b **(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity **: **CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

• re·li·gion·less adjective

God Bless.

 

[mlchance]

Uracan:

I’m just pointing out that we have evidence that Man had a concept of the trinity for about 6,000 years…

And has been pointed out, you’re assertion is wrong. Prior to Christianity, there is no religion with a doctrine of a three divine persons sharing a single substance. Merely rattling off lists of things that go together in threes doesn’t change this fact.

Uracan:

Understand your history. You’ll see that the early Christian sects made the Trinity an divisive issue to gain power.

Nonsense, but since you made the assertion, back it up. Please provide primary source historical evidence that “early Christian sects made the Trinity an divisive issue to gain power.”

Uracan:

Contrary to dogma I don’t believe that believing in the Trinity concept is necessary to be a good Catholic. The Church has made many errors throughout its existence, and I shall not blindly accept them and neither shall I leave the Church because it has committed them.

The Church has never erred in matters of doctrine, and belief in the Trinity is not optional for any Christian. It is a (if not the) foundational Christian doctrine.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[_Joshua]

Although this thread seems to have gone off topic, wasn’t the Trinity clearly seen at the Baptism in the Jordan river.

We have Jesus on earth, we have the Holy Spirit decending in the form of a dove, and we have a voice from Heaven, (God the Father) saying, " this is my beloved son with whom I AM well pleased" ?

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

As promised I have provided some OT verses, but there are soooo many in reference to the Messiah, Christ Jesus, that you willhave to read the OT yourself and cross reference it with the NT. As you declare you know the NT so well, you will be able to do this.

Genesis 49:14 ‘Issaxhar isa strong *** crouching between the sheepfolds he saw that a resting place was good and the land was pleasant, so he bowed his shoulder to bear and became a slave at forced labour’

Genesis 49:16 ‘Dan shall judge his people as one of the tribes of Israel Dan shall be a serpant in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horses heel so that his rider falls backward. I await for thy salvation, O Lord’

Exodus ‘If they will not believe even these two signs or heed your voice, you shall take water from the Nile and pour it upon dry ground; and the water which you shall take from the Nile will become blood upon the dry ground’

Exodus 9:23 ‘…stretched out his hands to the Lord, the thunder and rain ceased, the rain no longer poured upon the earth’

Numbers 8.13 ‘But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, yet refrain from keeping the Passover, that person shall be cut from his people, because he did not offer the Lord’s offering at his appointed time; that men shall bear his sin. And if a stranger sojourns (temporary resident -read Corinthians…all are sojourners) among you, and will keep the Passover to the Lord according to the statute of the Passover and according to it’s ordinance, so shall he do; you shall have one statute both for the sojourner and for the native.’

(gentile and jew)

Deuteronomy 10:18 ‘He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojouner…love the sojourner therefore’

continued

 

[springbreeze]

continuation one

Proverbs 29:9 ‘If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs and there is no quiet. Blood thirsty men hate one who is blameless and the wicked seek his life’

(none are blameless but God for all men fall short of the Glory of God)

Sirach 42:19 'He decalres what has been and what is to be and he reveals tracks of hidden things. No thought escapes Him and not one word is hidden from Him…read on.

Isaiah 1:20 ‘but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured by the sword’

sword = word =Christ Jesus

Isaiah 3:8 ’ For Jerusalem has stumbled and Judah has fallen; because their speech and their deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious presence.’

Isaiah 30:20 '…yet your Teacher shall not hide himself anymore, but your eyes shall see your Teacher. And your ears shall hear a word behind you saying ‘This is the way, walk in it’

(Jesus ‘I am the way, the truth and the light’) The voice is ‘behind you’ because we walked in the opposite direction.

Isaiah 35:4 ‘Behold, your God, He will come with vengeance, with the recompense of God. He will come and save you…then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, the ears of the deaf unstopped, then shall the lame man leap like a hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing for joy’

Isaiah 35:8 ‘And a highway shall be there and it shall be called the Holy Way; no lion shall be there, nor shall any ravenous beast come upon it…but the redeemed shall walk there’

Isaiah 42:1 ‘I have put my Spirit upon Him, He will bring forth justice to the nations, He will not cry or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street. Bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not quench. He will faithfully bring forth justice.’ read on yourself

Isaiah 42.9 ’ Behold the former things have come to pass and new things I now delare; before they spring forth I tell you of them’

Isaiah 42:16 ‘And I will lead the blind in a way that they know not, in oaths that they have not know.’

continued

 

[springbreeze]

Continutaion two

Isaiah 43:11 ‘I, I am the Lord and besides me there is no Saviour’ and ‘I work and who can hinder it’

Isaiah 43:25 ‘I, I am He who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins’

Isaiah 45:23 ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear’

Isaiah 48 :6 ‘From this time forth, I make you hear new things, hidden things which you have not know’

Isaiah 41:4 ‘…I, the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am He’ and ’ I am He, I am the first and I am the last’

(‘I am the Alpha and the Omega’ Jesus)

Isaiah 49.6 ‘I will give as a light to the nations that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth’

(I am the light of the world’ Jesus)
Isaiah 53:2 'For he grew up before him like a young plant, like a root out of dry ground; he had not form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised and we esteemed him not, surely he has borned our griefs and carried our sorrows…but he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our inquities; upon him wasthe chastisement that made us whole and with his stripes we are healed.

(none can look at the face of God without dying, look back in OT when Elijah hides his face from God, only one do men hide their faces from and He is as the One, He is God)

I will post more later I have to go out now.

God Bless you later and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[patg]

Jimmy B:

JMJ
With all your argument against the Divinity of Jesus Christ, this verse apparently doesn’t worry you?

I would like to know what the “heck” is with you people!!!

Have you not read anything I have written???

Are you not aware of the topic of this thread???

I am not and have never argued against the divinity of Jesus!!! I Have not written anything here which argues against it!! That is NOT the topic of this thread and it is NOT the question we are addressing.

One more time: "Did Jesus himself ever say he was God?"

 

[patg]

Jimmy B:

JMJ
And **Patg, **
If you are a Catholic you are apparently not concern with The Catholic Church’s position on this issue.

And you are apparantly not concerned with (or are unaware of) the topic of this thread or how the ideas I have presented relate to it.

 

[springbreeze]

patg:

I would like to know what the “heck” is with you people!!!

Have you not read anything I have written???

Are you not aware of the topic of this thread???

I am not and have never argued against the divinity of Jesus!!! I Have not written anything here which argues against it!! That is NOT the topic of this thread and it is NOT the question we are addressing.

One more time: "Did Jesus himself ever say he was God?"

Dear friend

If you read the quotes from the OT and the NT that God has revealed through His prophets and In Himself, Christ Jesus, you will see that by many of the words of Jesus He does Himself say He is God ‘I am the way, the truth and the light’ ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega’ etc etc… If Jesus had openly said ‘I am God’ at the beginning, during and towards the end of His ministry they would have killed Him there and then, no debate, He charged many not to reveal what He had done, but still they did, so they knew by His word, His teaching, His works/miracles that He indeed was the Messiah and not the Messiah they had long desired of political deliverance, so they despised Him and sought then to kill him, which they did…BUT He rose again from the dead…no mere man can do any of this, only God can do this.

Jesus said He is God in many ways and it takes discernment to know this, it takes reading the OT to know the Jews and what they anticipated by Divine Revelation. No-one would at those times say ‘I AM’ and claim God as their Father knowing that God and His Son who is as One with God and is God the Messiah can only claim this.

Say a little prayer to the Holy Spirit for discernment and enlightenment. I am hoping this thread has been useful to you and many others.

In conclusion, yes Jesus did say He is God.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa