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E.E.N.S
Guest
Robert Heibel:
The Church is the protector of the Truth.
Again you are opening yourself up to be deceived.
The Church is the protector of the Truth.
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
E.E.N.S.:
Put 10 people in a room and give them some passages to read and then see what they get from it. You will see some of the same responses, but you will also see many varying responses to the same passage. Each could point in opposing directions. Who is right?
Christ founded the Catholic Church to help avoid that kind of confusion. Certain things are handed down by tradition, not scripture alone. We have the deposit of faith which holds those things all of us are to hold as truth. Certainly the Holy Spirit guided special and holy people to aid us in our journey - are we to ignore all of them in favor of our own individual interpretations, independent of what the Catholic Church shares with us?
If you don’t believe in Catholicism, please let us know. Let’s go back to square one and discuss how the Papacy and Magisterium were brought into the picture and why they are still valid today. Or, are you not open to discussion on that?
Some of your comments seem to infer taht the Catholic Church disregards scripture when it does not. All that we do in this Church can be found rooted in Scripture or in Tradition. Now, if you believe in Scripture alone, as each inidivual interprets - wrongly or rightly, then that is a different ballgame.
I take it that between this comment and the non-answer to my question is that Robert, you are not Catholic? Once again, that is ok, but I just want to know if we are conversing with a Catholic or a non-Catholic. Some of your comments may seem more understandable coming from a non-Catholic than from a Catholic.
Put 10 people in a room and give them some passages to read and then see what they get from it. You will see some of the same responses, but you will also see many varying responses to the same passage. Each could point in opposing directions. Who is right?
Christ founded the Catholic Church to help avoid that kind of confusion. Certain things are handed down by tradition, not scripture alone. We have the deposit of faith which holds those things all of us are to hold as truth. Certainly the Holy Spirit guided special and holy people to aid us in our journey - are we to ignore all of them in favor of our own individual interpretations, independent of what the Catholic Church shares with us?
If you don’t believe in Catholicism, please let us know. Let’s go back to square one and discuss how the Papacy and Magisterium were brought into the picture and why they are still valid today. Or, are you not open to discussion on that?
Some of your comments seem to infer taht the Catholic Church disregards scripture when it does not. All that we do in this Church can be found rooted in Scripture or in Tradition. Now, if you believe in Scripture alone, as each inidivual interprets - wrongly or rightly, then that is a different ballgame.
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Robert_Heibel
Guest
When Paul was called into Christ’s ministry he had no doubts that it was Jesus who called him.
Paul started preaching right away and after five years went to see some of the other apostles.
I also know Jesus, who is my Lord and my God, and He has called me to His ministry and I live His Word.
(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for al those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ Who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”
If you will read in a thread of mine “How do you know Jesus is God?” You will find an explanation if I’m a Catholic or not.
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Robert Heibel:
I think it’s pretty clear that you are not Catholic…which is unfortunate, because you claim to love Christ Jesus so much, but you completely reject His Bride.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
Robert Heibel said:
Jesus did say that we are to love others. However, to “love others” is not the same as “do not hurt others.” If this were the case, then, out of fear of hurting another, a Christian parent could not discipline her child nor remove a splinter from her child’s finger, a Christian could not push a endangered person out of the path of an oncoming truck nor physically restrain a suicidal friend from killing himself, a Christian physician could not give her patients an injection nor clean a wound nor stitch a cut nor reset a broken leg, a Christian police officer could not restrain a fleeing criminal suspect, and a Christian soldier could not defend his country. I hope you can see that your interpretation is faulty. When Jesus said that we must love others, he meant that all we do must come from a desire to do good for others, especially their salvation, whether or not this might involve hurting them as a form of discipline or to relieve their suffering or to prevent them from committing sin, especially from attacking the fatherless—the basis for the just war theory.
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
Robert Heibel:
However, Robert, there are several pieces of criteria that the Catholic Church looks at when discerning whether or not the spirit which brings these revelations to you is divine or not. One such piece of criteria is that there can be no heresy, or contradiction to Catholic teaching. Yet, you commit heresy when you state that you were “Baptized in the Holy Spirit”.(in the above mentioned thread)… This may be protestant or some other religion, but it is surely not Catholic. Some wayward charismatic groups use this expression, but it is heretical.
While I haven’t had time to really reflect on other things you are writing, if there are other heresies, then I just think we need to end this discussion and move on to other things. It’s simply not worth spending any further time and attention on.
Ok people, Robert seems to be Catholic based on comments made in another thread (which he could have easily stated as such).
However, Robert, there are several pieces of criteria that the Catholic Church looks at when discerning whether or not the spirit which brings these revelations to you is divine or not. One such piece of criteria is that there can be no heresy, or contradiction to Catholic teaching. Yet, you commit heresy when you state that you were “Baptized in the Holy Spirit”.(in the above mentioned thread)… This may be protestant or some other religion, but it is surely not Catholic. Some wayward charismatic groups use this expression, but it is heretical.
While I haven’t had time to really reflect on other things you are writing, if there are other heresies, then I just think we need to end this discussion and move on to other things. It’s simply not worth spending any further time and attention on.
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adstrinity
Guest
Robert Heibel:
*Crucified. Jesus was crucified, not hung.
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Robert_Heibel
Guest
adstrinity said:
I would like to share something with you. Jesus let me know that if I gave Him my life I would lose everything I owned. As I was about to lose my car, I went to jesus and was complaining. Jesus then spoke to me and said “Bob, They hung me.”
Yours in Christ,
Bob
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adstrinity
Guest
Robert Heibel:
WHAT!!! So, not only did Jesus teach you that Christians CANNOT sin AT ALL, but, He told you that He was hung??? Again, ~I’M~ telling you, THAT IS NOT JESUS!!! Jesus has spoke to me as well and He sounds NOTHING like that!!!
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Robert_Heibel
Guest
You know I speak one way to my children another way to my father and still another way to my wife. When Jesus first spoke to me, much of the time it was scolding and quite harsh. When Jesus speaks to my wife He usually is much nicer.
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Robert Heibel:
How do you reconcile the fact the Jesus told you that Christians can’t sin, and the He was hung [instead of crucified?]
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Robert_Heibel
Guest
E.E.N.S.:
You don’t have to believe me. I’m not trying to convince you. Ask Jesus.
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adstrinity
Guest
Robert Heibel:
I have, I have gotten a COMPLETELY different answer. Are you saying that Jesus isn’t consistant? Or is He a liar?
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HagiaSophia
Guest
Robert Heibel:
Point of clarification I think — this is a Catholic forum. Most of the posters here will hold and express traditional Catholic beliefs. If you have an individualistic belief or understanding based on some private internal spiritual experience, then it is yours to process, but I do not think you can expect or will find that most of the other posters here agree with your interpretations or view of things. That is just common sense I think. And I believe it would be helpful since this is the Scripture forum to stay on the subject of Scripture in the discussions. Just my :twocents:
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