Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

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tqualey said:
Hi, Roy5,

You never fail to disappooint me! Without a doubt, when it comes to spinning out an idea filled with anecdotal accounts and skimping on data - I know your post will fill meet the challenge! 😃

So, let’s see what you have done this time…

Did you know the Charles Dickens character, “Tiny Tim” would say, “God bless us every one!” God bless you, too, Roy5
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Staying on the Italian theme: Bravo! :clapping:
 
Cinette said:
He said eat my body and drink my blood.
He said Whosoever sins you forgive they are forgiven them… whose sins your retain they are retained.
Sure he said those things but did he say BELIEVE in them? No he said BELIEVE in me. The word here is BELIEVE.:whacky::whacky::whacky:
*I refer again to your above statement.

How can you believe in Christ and not believe in what he says???

Where is it in the Bible that Christ said things in which you must not believe - only in Him?

How can this make sense to anyone, EVEN to you?
🤷🤷🤷
*
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So not were going to use the old, Where is it in the Bible that Christ said things in which you must not believe - only in Him?

Did he say to believe in him? YES
Did he say to believe in the one Holy Apostlic Church? NO
Did he say to believe that the Euchrist is his real body? NO
Where does it say you must believe in other things besides Him?
Where does he say you must believe in the CC?
 
At_Trent said:
No, Christ did not start a Church called the “Catholic Church”. No matter how it became known as Catholic, the Catholic Church of the time of St Polycarp is the same Catholic Church of today.

If you were to say Church of Christ, you would be speaking of the Catholic Church. The Denomination, Church of Christ, is not a member of the Church Christ started. The Catholic Church is that Church.
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No, Christ did not start a Church called the “Catholic Church”.
The Denomination, Church of Christ, is not a member of the Church Christ started. The Catholic Church is that Church.

:confused: You say he didn’t then you say he did. Which is it?
 
rev_kevin said:
Shw me where it says you have to be a part of the CC.
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*Reference *:tsktsk:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rev kevin
I am a Christian, a believer in Christ there for I am a part of his Church. No where does it say I have to be Catholic to be a part of his Church except in Catholic doctrine.

*No my friend the question is for you to answer. You are the one who posed it in the first place. That is why I responded with :tsktsk:

So tell me, where in Catholic Doctrine does it say that you have to be part of His Church?

The Bible tells us that we have a choice - we are free to choose.
:):)🙂
*
 
rev_kevin said:
No, Christ did not start a Church called the “Catholic Church”.
The Denomination, Church of Christ, is not a member of the Church Christ started. The Catholic Church is that Church.

:confused: You say he didn’t then you say he did. Which is it?
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Kevin, if you are right, and Jesus is not the founder of the Catholic Church, which means the CC is not the church of Matthew 16, could you please give me the name of the man, or men, that founded the Catholic Church in union with Rome, and when?
 
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Cinette:
rev kevin: Sure he said those things but did he say BELIEVE in them? No he said BELIEVE in me. The word here is BELIEVE.

Cinette: Logic I also wonder if English is your original language?? rev kevin’s answer: Why must you have these kind of remarks?

Cinette: And a Christian believes ALL. Not just those that He chooses to believe. One does not pick and choose when it comes to what Christ said and willed Believe who?

rev kevin: Christ when he said believe in me or the Catholic Church that says you have to believe in what we say is true? I take Christ.
Cinette: I do not understand this sentence - please explain.

rev kevin’s answer: I chose to believe in Christ not what the Catholic Church says I have to believe.
 
rev_kevin said:
Pound your head but give me a answer.
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rev kevin - you have received answers from many posters which you choose to ignore. You do not pause and reflect and sometimes I think you do not even read the answers. You are too keen to put in your own views which often contradict themselves and so you go round and round and one can never conclude a point with you because when you do sometimes give a good answer you then contradict it almost immediately!
:confused::confused:🤷
 
rev_kevin said:
So not were going to use the old, Where is it in the Bible that Christ said things in which you must not believe - only in Him?

Did he say to believe in him? YES
Did he say to believe in the one Holy Apostlic Church? NO
Did he say to believe that the Euchrist is his real body? NO
Where does it say you must believe in other things besides Him?
Where does he say you must believe in the CC?
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*I have to rush as I have a heavy day ahead but I just want you to think of the word implicit.

It is implicit that when Jesus teaches something as in John 6 (when he repeated himself several times) that you should believe it.

You must believe in Jesus AND his teachings! How can you believe in Jesus and not believe in his teachings?

It is IMPLICIT!
:):)🙂
*
 
rev_kevin said:
So not were going to use the old, Where is it in the Bible that Christ said things in which you must not believe - only in Him?

Did he say to believe in him? YES
Did he say to believe in the one Holy Apostlic Church? NO
Did he say to believe that the Euchrist is his real body? NO
Where does it say you must believe in other things besides Him?
Where does he say you must believe in the CC?
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I well gladly defend the Eucharist:

53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. (John (RSV) 6)

64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.
67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?”
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him. (John (RSV) 6)

Reverend, what would be your communities interpretation of this? And does your communities interpretation resemble that of the post-pentecostal Church?
 
rev_kevin said:
No, Christ did not start a Church called the “Catholic Church”.
The Denomination, Church of Christ, is not a member of the Church Christ started. The Catholic Church is that Church.

:confused: You say he didn’t then you say he did. Which is it?
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*I just have to ask you this before I go.

Are the words which I highlighted above yours rev kevin??*
:):)🙂
 
joe370 said:
Kevin, if you are right, and Jesus is not the founder of the Catholic Church, which means the CC is not the church of Matthew 16, could you please give me the name of the man, or men, that founded the Catholic Church in union with Rome, and when?
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*You have asked Kevin that question several times. Do you really think you will get an answer?
:):)🙂
*
 
joe370 said:
Kevin, if you are right, and Jesus is not the founder of the Catholic Church, which means the CC is not the church of Matthew 16, could you please give me the name of the man, or men, that founded the Catholic Church in union with Rome, and when?
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Catholic tradition holds that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. The New Testament records Jesus’ activities and teaching, his appointment of the twelve Apostles and his instructions to them to continue his work.[16][17] The Catholic Church teaches that the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles, in an event known as Pentecost, signaled the beginning of the public ministry of the Church.[18] While there is no particular narrative of Peter being “consecrated by Jesus,” and then by “Peter traveling to Rome founding a church there” in Church tradition, this came to be the Catholic view. Peter is also held to be Rome’s first bishop and consecrater Linus as its next bishop, thus starting the line of Popes of whom Pope Benedict XVI is the current successor. This view is often repeated in the Catholic Church.[19] The narratives of the appointment of the twelve Apostles and the appointing of Matthias as an Apostle are both found directly in the Scriptures.

Exactly when Christians first appeared in Rome is difficult to determine, see Godfearers and Proselytes for the historical background. The Acts of the Apostles claims that the Jewish Christian couple Priscilla and Aquila had recently come from Rome to Corinth when, in about the year 50, Paul reached Corinth, indicating that Christianity in Rome had preceded Paul. While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth, about AD 57, he greets some fifty people in Rome by name, but not Peter whom he knew. There is also no mention of Peter in Rome later during Paul’s two year stay there in chapter 28 of Acts, about AD 60-62. Church historians consistently consider Peter and Paul to have been martyred under the reign of Nero, in AD 64 such as after the Great Fire of Rome which, according to Tacitus, Nero blamed on the Christians. The tradition that the See of Rome was founded as an organized Christian community by Peter and Paul and that its episcopate owes to them its origin can be traced back only as the second-century, with Irenaeus, but there is no conclusive evidence, scripturally, historically or chronologically, that Peter was in fact the Bishop of Rome. Irenaeus does not say that either Peter or Paul was “bishop” of the Church in Rome, and some historians have questioned whether Peter spent much time in Rome before his martyrdom
 
Hey Kevin…
rev kevin;7506903]Catholic tradition holds that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. The New Testament records Jesus’ activities and teaching, his appointment of the twelve Apostles and his instructions to them to continue his work.[16][17] The Catholic Church teaches that the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles, in an event known as Pentecost, signaled the beginning of the public ministry of the Church.[18] While there is no particular narrative of Peter being “consecrated by Jesus,” and then by “Peter traveling to Rome founding a church there” in Church tradition, this came to be the Catholic view. Peter is also held to be Rome’s first bishop and consecrater Linus as its next bishop, thus starting the line of Popes of whom Pope Benedict XVI is the current successor. This view is often repeated in the Catholic Church.[19] The narratives of the appointment of the twelve Apostles and the appointing of Matthias as an Apostle are both found directly in the Scriptures.
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Okay…
Exactly when Christians first appeared in Rome is difficult to determine, see Godfearers and Proselytes for the historical background. The Acts of the Apostles claims that the Jewish Christian couple Priscilla and Aquila had recently come from Rome to Corinth when, in about the year 50, Paul reached Corinth, indicating that Christianity in Rome had preceded Paul. While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth, about AD 57, he greets some fifty people in Rome by name, but not Peter whom he knew. There is also no mention of Peter in Rome later during Paul’s two year stay there in chapter 28 of Acts, about AD 60-62. Church historians consistently consider Peter and Paul to have been martyred under the reign of Nero, in AD 64 such as after the Great Fire of Rome which, according to Tacitus, Nero blamed on the Christians. The tradition that the See of Rome was founded as an organized Christian community by Peter and Paul and that its episcopate owes to them its origin can be traced back only as the second-century, with Irenaeus, but there is no conclusive evidence, scripturally, historically or chronologically, that Peter was in fact the Bishop of Rome. Irenaeus does not say that either Peter or Paul was “bishop” of the Church in Rome, and some historians have questioned whether Peter spent much time in Rome before his martyrdom
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Okay…Still hoping you will provide me with the name of the man, or men, that founded the CC in union with Rome and when just as I can regarding each and every non-Catholic church??? 👍
 
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