Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

[po18guy]

…cannot call the Catholic Church a denomination!!

This is relativism in practice. Division in the Body of Christ made this necessary. Much of protestantism is run like a business, since it essentially is a busniess which supports the local pastor. Thus, the concept of competition was introduced between various denominations - as if salvation is a matter of personal taste, or an economic decision.

 

[po18guy]

*You obviously have not read all the postings. There is a poster who said that the Church is Jesus Christ and that the Holy spirit is guiding it. Well if the Church is Christ why do we need the Holy Spirit.

That sentence makes no sense as so many of the things this poster said.

First, I may not live long enough to read 251 posts. Are we eating our own now? The Church is Christ’s Body, and it is guided by the Holy Spirt. This is controversial? Really…

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Po18Guy,

What an interesting idea - I had really never thought of it quite like that before! Yes, it does have its own business model - and the ads one sees are truly a credit to the imagination of those who want to promote a particular cause … and, be paid for it, too!

Have a great day

This is relativism in practice. Division in the Body of Christ made this necessary. Much of protestantism is run like a business, since it essentially is a busniess which supports the local pastor. Thus, the concept of competition was introduced between various denominations - as if salvation is a matter of personal taste, or an economic decision.

 

[po18guy]

The English word “church” has various meanings. Webster gives the following definitions for the word church.

Christ founded the Church, not Webster. I note that your source, Webster, was protestant. Ahem!

 

[GaryTaylor]

This is relativism in practice. Division in the Body of Christ made this necessary. Much of protestantism is run like a business, since it essentially is a busniess which supports the local pastor. Thus, the concept of competition was introduced between various denominations - as if salvation is a matter of personal taste, or an economic decision.

Good Point.

 

[po18guy]

Hi, Po18Guy,

What an interesting idea - I had really never thought of it quite like that before! Yes, it does have its own business model - and the ads one sees are truly a credit to the imagination of those who want to promote a particular cause … and, be paid for it, too!

Have a great day

Precisely the reason for the founding of Marcus Grodi’s Coming Home Network. He assists mostly protestant pastors who are converting to Catholicism, and thus losing their incomes. Very understandably, loss of income is the last major stumbling block to many conversions.

 

[JVSantos]

Prostestans minister is a CAREER!
Protestant ministers work closely with people in the community while supporting and promoting Christian spiritual health. The career education information presented here will help you learn more about career paths in the various Protestant churches, the job outlook, the career training required, and the career opportunities.

 

[JVSantos]

Job Description

Protestant ministers lead their congregations in worship services and administer the various rites of the church, such as baptism, confirmation, and Holy Communion. The services that ministers conduct differ among the numerous Protestant denominations and even among congregations within a denomination. In many denominations, ministers follow a traditional order of worship; in others, they adapt the services to the needs of youth and other groups within the congregation. Most services include Bible readings, hymn singing, prayers, and a sermon. In some denominations, Bible readings by members of the congregation and individual testimonials constitute a large part of the service. In addition to these duties, ministers officiate at weddings, funerals, and other occasions.
Each Protestant denomination has its own hierarchical structure. Some ministers are responsible only to the congregation they serve, whereas others are assigned duties by elder ministers or by the bishops of the diocese they serve. In some denominations, ministers are reassigned to a new pastorate by a central governing body or diocese every few years.
Ministers who serve small congregations usually work personally with parishioners. Those who serve large congregations may share specific aspects of the ministry with one or more associates or assistants, such as a minister of education or a minister of music.

 

[JVSantos]

Working Conditions

Members of the clergy typically work irregular hours and many put in longer than average work days. Those who do not work in congregational settings may have more routine schedules. In 2000, almost one-fifth of full-time clergy worked 60 or more hours a week, more than 3 times that of all workers in professional occupations. Although many of their activities are sedentary and intellectual in nature, clergy frequently are called on short notice to visit the sick, comfort the dying and their families, and provide counseling to those in need. Involvement in community, administrative, and educational activities sometimes require clergy to work evenings, early mornings, holidays, and weekends.
Because of their roles as leaders regarding spiritual and morality issues, some members of the clergy often feel obligated to address and resolve both societal problems and the personal problems of their congregants, which can lead to stress.
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[JVSantos]

Employment

There are many denominations; however, most ministers are employed by the five largest Protestant bodies - Baptist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian.
Although most ministers are located in urban areas, many serve two or more smaller congregations in less densely populated areas. Some small churches increasingly employ part-time ministers who are seminary students, retired ministers, or holders of secular jobs. Unpaid pastors serve other churches with meager funds. In addition, some churches employ specially trained members of the laity to conduct nonliturgical functions.
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Education, Training & Qualifications

Educational requirements for entry into the Protestant ministry vary greatly. Many denominations require, or at least strongly prefer, a bachelor’s degree followed by study at a theological seminary. However, some denominations have no formal educational requirements, and others ordain persons having various types of training from Bible colleges or liberal arts colleges. Many denominations now allow women to be ordained, but some do not. Persons considering a career in the ministry should first verify the ministerial requirements with their particular denomination.
In general, each large denomination has its own schools of theology that reflect its particular doctrine, interests, and needs. However, many of these schools are open to students from other denominations. Several interdenominational schools associated with universities give both undergraduate and graduate training covering a wide range of theological points of view.
In 1999-2000, the Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada accredited 206 Protestant denominational theological schools. These schools only admit students who have received a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent from an accredited college. After college graduation, many denominations require a 3-year course of professional study in one of these accredited schools, or seminaries, for the degree of Master of Divinity.
The standard curriculum for accredited theological schools consists of four major categories: Biblical studies, history, theology, and practical theology. Courses of a practical nature include pastoral care, preaching, religious education, and administration. Many accredited schools require that students work under the supervision of a faculty member or experienced minister. Some institutions offer Doctor of Ministry degrees to students who have completed additional study - usually 2 or more years - and served at least 2 years as a minister. Scholarships and loans often are available for students of theological institutions.
Persons who have denominational qualifications for the ministry usually are ordained after graduation from a seminary or after serving a probationary pastoral period. Denominations that do not require seminary training ordain clergy at various appointed times. Some churches ordain ministers with only a high school education.
Women and men entering the clergy often begin their careers as pastors of small congregations or as assistant pastors in large churches. Pastor positions in large metropolitan areas or in large congregations often require many years of experience.

 

[JVSantos]

Job Outlook

Job opportunities as Protestant ministers should be best for graduates of theological schools. The degree of competition for positions will vary among denominations and geographic regions. For example, relatively favorable prospects are expected for ministers in evangelical churches. Competition, however, will be keen for responsible positions serving large, urban congregations. Ministers willing to work part time or for small, rural congregations should have better opportunities. Many job openings will stem from the need to replace ministers who retire, die, or leave the ministry.
For newly ordained Protestant ministers who are unable to find parish positions, employment alternatives include working in youth counseling, family relations, and social welfare organizations; teaching in religious educational institutions; or serving as chaplains in the Armed Forces, hospitals, universities, and correctional institutions.
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Salary Expectations

Salaries of Protestant clergy vary substantially, depending on experience, denomination, size and wealth of the congregation, and geographic location. For example, some denominations tie a minister’s pay to the average pay of the congregation or the community. As a result, ministers serving larger, wealthier congregations often earned significantly higher salaries than those in smaller, less affluent areas or congregations. Ministers with modest salaries sometimes earn additional income from employment in secular occupations.
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Associations, Resources & Accreditation

Persons who are interested in entering the Protestant ministry should seek the counsel of a minister or church guidance worker. Theological schools can supply information on admission requirements. For information on special requirements for ordination, prospective ministers also should contact the ordination supervision body of their particular denomination.

 

[JVSantos]

And anyone can do this. Also note that there’s no mention of “calling”, "vows"and “vocation” to become a minister. Many so called ministers have became very rich$$.

 

[rinnie]

As my kids used to say yeah huh. The Church did exist from all eternity, because the Church is Jesus, and the Church is God, and Jesus and God and the Church are all part of the Trinity. The Church is the last Part of the Trinity the Holy Spirit.

And the Church is the Person of Christ. There is the Father which was revealed in the word, the Son which was revealed in Jesus, and the Holy Spirit which was and is still revealed in the Catholic Church.

Let me say this in a different way. When Jesus said Saul why are you persecuting me how could Saul be persecuting Jesus he was already in heaven???

If someone kicked you in the arm, your whole body shares in the pain.

What Christ was telling Saul was in striking his Body Saul was striking HIM.

When the Body of Christ was persecuted it was Christ the invisible head who spoke to saul.

Therefore the Mystical body of Christ no more stands between Christ and an individual then his physical body stood between Magadalen and his forgiveness.

It was his human body that came to men in the individual life, but it is his Mystical body or HIS CHURCH that comes to men in the Mystical life.

It was the N.T that came out of the Church not the church out of the N.T.

The body had 4 marks. unity, (which is why I said that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are all made up of one GOD.) IT has one SOUL, one Spirit.

It is unity that keeps the Church as one Which is what Catholicity is.

The third is Holiness which is our promise that the Church will keep itself health and pure and free from heresy.

And divine, because it is by the gift of the Holy SPirit.

ANd Apostolic because it has its roots from Christ.

But the Church is still Christ walking around in the Mystical Body instead of his Human body is all.

What I am saying is the Church is still Christ, and Christ is one in being with the Father. The Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit made up of ONE GOD. Just like Christ is the Church, Christ is also God made Man. They are all part of one another.

It is in the form of the Holy Spirit that instead of the Human Form of Christ that the Church is being led. BUt it makes no difference.

But regardless the CHurch is still led by God and not apart from God because all things come from God. Rather it is in the name of the Father the Son or the Holy Spirit it is still ONE GOD. All are led by ONE God, all one in being with the Father. God from God, light from light, True God from True God. which all things were made.

It does not matter if it is the Mystical Church, or Christ here in the Human it all stems from one source GOD. That is what Unity is. As the Father SOn and HS are in unity we are to be one in unity also with the Living CHurch here on earth which is the CC.

Just like you can’t take God from the Father, and the Father from the Son, and the Holy Spirit its all one. There is only ONE GOD leading the Church. No matter what power he exercises it through. That was my point!!

 

[rinnie]

Because after all is said and done, Rev Kevin is afraid of the truth.

But he can’t run away from it forever. Not if he is sincere in his desire to follow the Lord. Unless there is a question mark on that sincerity as well. Only God knows.

I disagree with this. While Rev Kev and I disagree on alot of thing’s, I believe that if he felt that that the RCC was the true teaching of Christ he would become a Roman Catholic in a second.

I believe that when you are not born into the Catholic Faith it is very easy to question its teaching’s.and it is very hard to understand.

I have seen him grow in the CC more then I believe even he realizes.

What is the Truth. The Truth is Christ. I am the way, and the Truth and the Light. I pray that he can continue to Grow in Christ, and pray that he can also do the same for me,

I have learned a wonderful lesson, and Rev Kev let me be the first to apoogize to you, There have been times that I have not been the true Christian toward you that I should have been, and not trying to harder to understand what you were trying to say at times.

And after being on the receiving end of that, I can say it was well worth the names I was called because it will make me a more compassionate person.

Please stick around and continue to question our faith. It is in questions that we receive answers,

 

[GaryTaylor]

I disagree with this. While Rev Kev and I disagree on alot of thing’s, I believe that if he felt that that the RCC was the true teaching of Christ he would become a Roman Catholic in a second.

I believe that when you are not born into the Catholic Faith it is very easy to question its teaching’s.and it is very hard to understand.

I have seen him grow in the CC more then I believe even he realizes.

What is the Truth. The Truth is Christ. I am the way, and the Truth and the Light. I pray that he can continue to Grow in Christ, and pray that he can also do the same for me,

I have learned a wonderful lesson, and Rev Kev let me be the first to apoogize to you, There have been times that I have not been the true Christian toward you that I should have been, and not trying to harder to understand what you were trying to say at times.

And after being on the receiving end of that, I can say it was well worth the names I was called because it will make me a more compassionate person.

Please stick around and continue to question our faith. It is in questions that we receive answers,

I thought Kevin was Catholic at one point?

 

[rinnie]

I thought Kevin was Catholic at one point?

You know I have heard many people say this. But in all honesty if you are Baptised are you really Catholic.

Did he truly learn the Catholic faith, (if he was catholic, or what is his definition of catholic) see what I mean.

I have learned that many people say I used to be Catholic who never knew that faith, but then because they were indeed baptised Catholic, then what they say is held against us and our faith, even if its a wrong teaching.

Now I can honestly say that if he said he was Catholic we owe it to him to take him at his word.

But I will say in all due respect if he was Catholic then alot of what he says is not the teaching of the CC. Or maybe he knew a teaching but did not understand it right.

I don’t know. But what I do know for sure is here is here for a reason. It is not in my power to know what it is, but I pray it is to search for the fullness of the truth.

And I can promise him he will indeed find it in the RCC.

But while he may not have the fullnes of the truth, he does have much truth. And that is what we as Christians must concentrate on and take the truth he does have and pray it leads him to the fullness.

And all we can do with the Grace we have is help him discover it. And who on this internet has all of the truth or knows it all? We are all working with the grace we are given, and while the more we pray, confess and study the more grace will be given to us also.

 

[Heliotropium]

I question that is what I do. I’m not playing what you call a semantic game.

Where does it state the Church is the Catholic church Jesus started?

Thanks for bening very concerned for me but I’m alright. God is with me.

Once again you have not refuted my earler post so I still must come to the conclusion that you agree with it.

Ok Rev I’m very tired of this game but fine let’s play it your way and we can see why you’re incorrect in your assessment. By your logic we cannot know that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded because nowhere in Scripture is the title “The Catholic Church” ascribed to the “church” Christ founded on Peter in the Scriptures. Fine let’s go with this type of reasoning and through it we can see how this is wrong. So Rev by this type of reasoning I now do not believe in the Holy Trinity. The principle doctrine of the Christian faith…the very doctrine that makes us Christians I do not believe in because nowhere in Scripture is the word Trinity every mentioned when talking about the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Prove to me I’m wrong? You are a Christian aren’t you Rev? You believe in the Trinity doctrine don’t you? If so then please show me where the word Trinity is described to God in the Scriptures? If you can’t find the word Trinity in the scriptures then on whose authority do you believe in the Trinity doctrine? Whose Tradition are you using if not the written Word of God?

Well let me answer that for you Rev. You’re using the Tradition of the early Christians that said the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make the Holy Trinity. Yes the “Holy Trinity” is the word that describes and defines what the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are in the Bible. We can clearly see because you believe in the Trinity and that nowhere is “Trinity” stated in the Scriptures that you also believe in the Tradition of the early Christians since they are the ones that defined the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as being God the Holy Trinity.

Well good news Rev. is those same Early Christians that defined the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as being the Holy Trinity also described and defined the “church” that is mentioned in the Bible as being called The Catholic Church!

We can clearly see now that your argument and your very actions are a contradiction to your own reasoning and that your entire argument is false and not based on logic.

Your “pick and choose” Christianity Rev is not based on logic or reason and thereore it is not for me which is why I’m a Catholic.

God Bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, JVS,

This was very interesting … did you pull this from the Department of Labor…

The DOL really does a good job of describing the nuts 'n bolts of a general position.

But, ultimately, we are talking about a job - and, from that standpoint … this is a bit disappointing for someone who was looking for a ‘calling’ type profession.

Thanks for sending ths.

God bless

And anyone can do this. Also note that there’s no mention of “calling”, "vows"and “vocation” to become a minister. Many so called ministers have became very rich$$.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Rinnie,

Are you getting all ‘mushy’ on us …

I have not noticed anything uncharitable or unChristian in your posts … but, I think I am picking up some wishful thinking. Of the two of you … in my opinion … Benedictus2 has hit the nail on the head. Ah, but there is a chance I am wrong … so … let me ask:

Can you direct me to ANY post on this thread that would support your first sentence? If so, let’s take a look at it. If is is solid, I’ll buy you a coffee (sorry, Kev - you’re on the wagon! ) if not … well … we can discuss this at Starbucks.

God bless

I disagree with this. While Rev Kev and I disagree on alot of thing’s, I believe that if he felt that that the RCC was the true teaching of Christ he would become a Roman Catholic in a second.

I believe that when you are not born into the Catholic Faith it is very easy to question its teaching’s.and it is very hard to understand.

I have seen him grow in the CC more then I believe even he realizes.

What is the Truth. The Truth is Christ. I am the way, and the Truth and the Light. I pray that he can continue to Grow in Christ, and pray that he can also do the same for me,

I have learned a wonderful lesson, and Rev Kev let me be the first to apoogize to you, There have been times that I have not been the true Christian toward you that I should have been, and not trying to harder to understand what you were trying to say at times.

And after being on the receiving end of that, I can say it was well worth the names I was called because it will make me a more compassionate person.

Please stick around and continue to question our faith. It is in questions that we receive answers,

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Gary,

P-s-s-s-s … do you think we ought to ask him …? Or, just continue to engage in speculation…?

Hey, Rev Kev … do you want to end this whispering campaign…?

God bless

Tom

I thought Kevin was Catholic at one point?