Did Jesus write the Bible or build a church?

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Seeing that God the Holy Spirit sired Jesus I would call God the Father “Uncle”
You have a very strange theology. If it’s not too personal a question - What kind of religion do you practice? (I was assuming you were an Evangelical Protestant Christian, but they wouldn’t think of calling God the Father “Uncle.” Most of them call Him “Daddy.”)
 
Seeing that God the Holy Spirit sired Jesus I would call God the Father “Uncle”
Interesting but it’s certainly better than Mother. However let me note that He is not Father only because of his relationship with Jesus but because of his relationship with the rest of the world. So no, thanks you, I shall continue calling him Father. 🙂
 
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avflf:
Seeing that God the Holy Spirit sired Jesus I would call God the Father “Uncle”
Interesting but it’s certainly better than Mother. However let me note that He is not Father only because of his relationship with Jesus but because of his relationship with the rest of the world. So no, thanks you, I shall continue calling him Father. 🙂

BUT…I think we are getting of the track. We were discussing Baptism. You seem to claim many things without any support. Let me make it easy for you. I will simply list some questions and you can answer them so we know where we are standing in relation to each other.
  • Is Matthew part of the Bible, inspired by God?
  • Matthew quotes Jesus saying: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…”. Are we to ignore this command? How do you explain it?
  • You say that the early Church used the “Jesus baptism” instead of the “trinitarian baptism”. Do you have any extra-biblical support of that (since we interpret the passages in Acts differently)? What is the early Church?
Thank you!

In Christ,
~G
 
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avflf:
Please forgive me if I miss an entry and don’t reply to it. You must understand my Inbox gets loaded from posts that a lot of you send me and sometimes when I click on the answer link it does not take me to that particular post and by the time I scroll for it there is a whole lot of new posts.
You pony has left my pony in the dust. Your inbox has private messages in it – not posts. Your profile gives you a list of threads to which you have subscribed. If there is a new answer on a thread, it will appear in bold. If not, you can access it by clicking View all subscribed threads.
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avflf:
The burden of being one against many, well not really “against” but sometimes I feel snowed under.
It would not be so burdensome if you would just answer questions directly. It gets burdensome when you evade because then we all keep repeating our questions and they build up and you get myriad posts to answer instead of just a few.
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avflf:
Mat. 28:19 is interesting because it goes against what Jesus had been saying all along ie (Mat 15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Mat 15:26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
But **then **what does he say?

avflf said:
(Mat 10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Or what the Angel said

What is the relevance of this? How does this relate in any way to what we have been discussing?
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avflf:
(Mat 1:21) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Luk 1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Acording to the Bible who are God’s people? Israel. Whose nation did David ruled over? Israel. And it was to and for Israel that the Christ came.
Do stories not have beginnings, middles, and ends? OK. Let’s just say that you agree. Why then leave out the parts which do not agree with our own opinion? Where does it say in Scripture that you should only read parts of the Bible?

avflf, in no possible way can this post of yours be thought of as answering our questions.

Was Matthew an Apostle or not?

What is the relevance, if any, of the change in wording between Acts and Matthew as to how to pray?

How complicated is that?
 
Ani Ibi:
I have a question for you: Did Jesus write the Bible or build a Church?
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avflf:
No. But the NT and the Church were founded on the life and sayings of the Christ, or at least on what the writers believed were the sayings of Jesus.
You are evading the questions. There are two. Please answer them one at a time.

Did Jesus write the Bible? Yes or no please. Thank you.

Did Jesus build a Church? Yes or no please. Thank you.
 
So according your personal imterperation of Scripture we have to ignore Mathew? And somehow the Church by following Jeusus’s great commission are practicing heresy?
And according to the Church’s interpretation we should ignore the 4 verses in Acts and act upon the 1 verse in Matthew. Not very democratic, is it?
 
And according to the Church’s interpretation we should ignore the 4 verses in Acts and act upon the 1 verse in Matthew. Not very democratic, is it?
There is no conflict other than to those who have made themselves the sole arbiter of what Scripture means.
 
You think you’re so clever 😃

It just opened up?! So established between 1900 -2007

I need more information then that silly:p

Non-denominational Christian churches are almost exclusively derived from the Protestant movement, as a fundamental part of Catholicism.

We have a new non-denominational church or two. One is owned by the pastor who runs the place (for lack of better word)
And you ask

What is the pastors name?

Charlie Brown (examp)

what denomination were you before this?

Lutheran

who founded that?

Martin Luther

And what was he before that?

Catholic

Remember you were suppose to do the rest.😉 using my formula:rolleyes:
I know…but I only think I’m clever but I know I’m not! 🙂
 
And according to the Church’s interpretation we should ignore the 4 verses in Acts and act upon the 1 verse in Matthew. Not very democratic, is it?
So are you saying that you are simply ignoring that verse? :eek:
Sorry, but this is so Protestant…if the scripture seems to contradict your interpretation of the Bible you simply ignore the verse. 😦

Here is something for you: Bible isn’t a democracy! Bible is the Word of God.
 
malachi_a_serva;2472557 I myself get confussed to see the huge impact this would make against The Bible. I look at it as Jesus established a church…Jesus also determined we needed a Bible…

Jesus says:

Matthew 26:13
I tell you the truth, wherever **this gospel is preached **throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."

Mark 3:14
He appointed twelve—designating them apostles —that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

Mark 13:10
And the gospel** must first be preached **to all nations.

Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and **preach the good news **to all creation.

Luke 9:2
and he sent them out to **preach the kingdom of God **and to heal the sick.

**Not go and write a bible.

The apostles wrote “Letters”. That is what an “Epistle” is. A formal letter.

It was only natural that the apostle by whom the greater number of these communities had been founded should seek to communicate with them by letter.

They were letters that were gathered together and placed into a book.

That is what “biblia” means it is Latin for book.

The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah.

The New Testament is the “letters” of the apostles and disciples who wrote to communicate with the church they each were instructing.

Testament is another word for Covenant, Covenant is another word for Oath.

We have the Old Covenant from God and the New Covenant from God.

These “letters” were chosen and placed into a book by Pope Damasus and a council of bishops called The Council of Rome. St Jerome was commisioned by the pope to to translate the original Greek and Hebrew texts into Latin in 382ad 1,135 years before Martin Luther begins the Protestant Movement.

It is called the La Biblia Sacra Vulgata. Which is Latin and means " The Sacred Book in the Vernacular" In the common language.dictionary.reference.com/browse/vulgate**
drbo.org/lvb/

Jesus founded a church

Matthew 16:18:
18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Code:
Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.
Matthew 16:19:
19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matthew 18:17-18:
17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matthew 28:20:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world

Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

Luke 10:16:
16He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, rejects me. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ’s infallible authority.

Luke 22:32:

32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

Jesus prays for Peter, that his faith may not fail. Jesus’ prayer for Peter’s faith is perfectly efficacious, and this allows Peter to teach the faith without error (which means infallibly).
 
You must understand that a “book” can’t start a church. (Like the Protestants keep doing.)

The church wrote the letters in the “book” as part of their efforts of instructing the church that had already started.

You look back in history and see that Jesus founded one church. Not churches.

Jesus has one body. Not 30 bodies.

from 33 ad-- 100–200–300–400–500–600–700–800-900-1000–1200–1300–1400–1516

There is one body of Christ, one church, one bride, one Lord,one faith,one baptism.One!
 
Sorry, but this is so Protestant…if the scripture seems to contradict your interpretation of the Bible you simply ignore the verse. 😦

.
Thats the second rule of Sola Scriptura-the first rule is that all verses are to be taken literally unless they uphold Catholic Doctrine.
 
Thats the second rule of Sola Scriptura-the first rule is that all verses are to be taken literally unless they uphold Catholic Doctrine.
From previous posts, I thought the First Rule of Sola Scriptura is that Catholics do not understand Sola Scriptura.

That’s the trouble with reading the heresiarchs—they say so many contradictory things from one work to the next (whoops, sorry, they don’t do works) that simple-minded Catholics such as we cannot follow the divine nuance.
 
Such as the Catholic church ???
No, Christ made the Catholic Church the arbiter of Scripture.

Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Tom, ****, and Harry made themselves arbiters of Scripture.
 
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estesbob:
%between% There is no conflict other than to those who have made themselves the sole arbiter of what Scripture means.
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avflf:
Such as the Catholic church ???
Let’s get specific about how language is used. OK? Note that e-bob uses the reflexive of the verb to make.

Note that you then cite the Catholic Church as the subject of that verb.

Note that it was not the Catholic Church who made herself the sole arbiter of what Scripture means.

Note that it was Jesus Himself Who made the Church the sole arbiter of what Scripture means.

Jesus is the subject of a transitive verb. Thus negating your erroneously use of the reflexive verb.

:tiphat:
 
He told Peter he would found the Church upon him, and did so at Pentecost.

What date do you give for the founding of the Catholic Church?
There are several places in the New Testament where it is clear that Jesus is giving His authority to the Apostles, particularly Peter.

Of note, with regard to Peter, are Matthew 16:18-19 (in which Jesus quotes directly from Isaiah 22:22) and John 21:15-19.

It is obvious that Jesus expected the Apostles and their successors to be in charge of the discipline of the Church until His return in glory at the Second Coming.
 
There are several places in the New Testament where it is clear that Jesus is giving His authority to the Apostles, particularly Peter.

Of note, with regard to Peter, are Matthew 16:18-19 (in which Jesus quotes directly from Isaiah 22:22) and John 21:15-19.

It is obvious that Jesus expected the Apostles and their successors to be in charge of the discipline of the Church until His return in glory at the Second Coming.
Of course I agree with you—I’ve just tried numerous times to get someone who denies that the early church was the Catholic Church to provide me with the date the Catholic Church was founded.

Surely if the Catholic Church was NOT the one founded by Christ in 33 AD, someone could point to where this brand new church came into being, right?
 
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