Did Joseph and Mary lie?

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I’ve been trying to study scripture lately because it’s probably one of my weakest points in my faith. I was just wondering as I was thinking about the Incarnation of Jesus. I believe that Mary and Joseph never had children together. I believe that Mary is sinless and Joseph was a very faithful and pious man. However, did Joseph and Mary sin by omitting the truth or did they lie when they called Jesus the son of Joseph? There were obvious reasons why they couldn’t go out and say Jesus was son of God, but I still wonder if they committed even a venial sin by omitting the truth of Jesus’ origin to their family and friends. Because they were technically married, did everyone assume Jesus was the son of Joseph and Mary and Joseph went along with it? Or am I just overthinking something that I could the answer to in the bible?
 
They did not lie. If you were a child raised by your stepfather, or you were adopted, would someone in town say “That’s Bob and Nancy’s son” or would you say “That’s that kid they adopted” or “That’s Nancy’s son. Bob is really not his father.” Of course not. Joseph raised Jesus and was his earthly father. Therefore, he was known as Joseph’s son. Joseph was entrusted with this special role. Truly a “dad” for sure
 
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ETA-
did Joseph and Mary sin by omitting the truth or did they lie when they called Jesus the son of Joseph?
No.

Mary and Jesus were genuinely married as couples were at that time. When Joseph learnt that Mary was pregnant he was considering divorcing her quietly to spare her shame, when he was told by the angel sent by God to Matthew 1:20 " Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord* appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her. 21She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus,* because he will save his people from their sins.”

Marys’ cousin Elizabeth knew the truth as did the baby she was carrying - St John the Baptist, when Mary went to visit her after learning her cousin Elizabeth had conceived and was in the 6th month (by the angel).

Yes, people did think and believe Jesus was the son of Joseph & Mary - Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3
 
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There are two separate questions here, and I think it would be helpful to keep them apart. One is the question of the Incarnation , which would mean that Jesus is not descended, on his father’s side, from any of the twelve tribes of Israel. The other is the question of what was written on his birth certificate, assuming he had one. Some of the history books say that complete genealogical records of all the Jewish families in Judea were kept in the underground chambers in the Temple, until they were destroyed when the Temple burned down in AD 70. This second question is the one we are dealing with here. In an earlier thread on the same subect, @Tis_Bearself commented:
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Judaism, Messiah, Patrilineal Lineage Apologetics
There are, I believe, some early Church fathers who claimed to have seen Jesus’ birth certificate before it was destroyed. And I would presume it said Joseph was his father. Joseph would not have written down God’s name in the father space. For all intents and purposes, under Jewish law Jesus was Joseph’s son, legally.
 
I don’t think anybody asked them, “Hey, is your son God?” And they said, “no”.
 
The law in my state is that the husband is presumed to be the father of the wife’s child, just by virtue of being married.
 
The story goes like this:

An angel Gabriel gives a precise message to Mary from God.

Mary said to the angel to carry her reply which was “the servant of God according to your words, let it be to me”

This is well known.

I think she had some doubt on the matter.

Being married to Joseph, she immediately told him what message she had and together they decided to wait and see;
they considered that the angel didn’t state a time for conception, besides he made reference to Elisabeth who was of advanced age. There was also a doubt in general on the whole matter.

They, as some people would do today, decided that until after their carnal union, there was no problem and even then if she had menstruation no fear.

When she has no menstruation for Joseph there are three possibilities : she had intercourse and pregnant

, maybe she was ill and must wait another month
or what she had said was true.

His decision anyhow is to divorce her, fearing a contamination if his lineage of son of David, but firstly he must carry on with the marriage and later he will leave her without clamour.

The dream suggested to Joseph not to fear and carry on what already decided.
A dream being a dream, he had no intercourse with her, otherwise he could not divorce her.
 
Why would they lie?

If Mary didn’t even explain the circumstances of Jesus’ conception and Incarnation to Joseph, probably the one person who had the greatest right to know— to the point where God had to send an angel to explain to him what was going on— why would anyone else be considered to deserve the technically-correct version of Jesus’ origins?

Betrothal was a much more powerful, legally-binding act in their society than engagement is in ours. And in a clan-based society without DNA testing, being raised by a man was betrothed/married to the woman, I’d expect that to be sufficient for being considered his son.

Once upon a time, I had a teacher who had been adopted. She always referred to her mom as the woman who raised her. There was another woman who had given birth to her and gave her away five minutes later, but she didn’t consider her “mom” in her head. She was just someone who was biologically related to her, but wasn’t her “real mom”, because that role was earned.

Obviously, God vs Joseph isn’t a similar dynamic, but it’s a real-world example of how someone can honestly represent themselves as so-and-so’s child, even if there isn’t any common genetics between them.

On an interesting side note, you’ll notice that there are two different genealogies in the Bible. Both Mary and Joseph were descended from David, but Joseph was descended from a more kingly branch than Mary was. So Jesus, through Mary, was descended from David, but Jesus, through Joseph, was descended through the primary royal line. But there had also been the Curse of Jeconiah, where God extinguishes his line, and says no one from his lineage will ever sit the throne again. So, paradoxically, the curse is able to stay intact, yet Jesus is still able to lay claim to that kingly lineage through Joseph, while still being genetically related to David through Mary.
 
The message is to Mary because her DNA had to be used and she will carry on the pregnancy and raise the child, as it happens now days.

At the announcement Joseph was for God no problem because 'he will be called son of the highest" and if Joseph would not have accepted Jesus God would surely have found another Joseph, or James, son of David.
 
Do you know any adoptive parents? Are they lying when they refer to their adoptive children as “my son/daughter?”
 
No, they didn’t lie. Joseph adopted Jesus, making Him his step-son. Even as an adopted Son, this allowed Jesus to become the son of David and fulfill the messianic prophecies concerning Him.
 
I think I was just overthinking the passage, and thought ‘oh. omission of truth is kind of lie,’ but I didn’t consider at the time that Jesus was technically adopted by Joseph. Thanks everybody
 
Please accept the following in the spirit in which it is offered. Reflecting on this thread title, as well as many others, I shudder to think if they are the product of impious speculation. Even Jean Calvin said that we should avoid that.

Far better, methinks, to say “I don’t understand” or “can someone clarify this for me?”
 
It’s actually very simple. In Jewish law Joseph is the legal father of Jesus whether there was an official adoption or not. Jesus is Joseph’s son. The only exception may be if another “father” came forward claiming He was his son…which didn’t happen according to history.
 
One is the question of the Incarnation , which would mean that Jesus is not descended, on his father’s side, from any of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Although the geneologies are listed through the male line, it is having a Jewish mother that automatically makes one Jewish, or at least it is that way now.
 
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NO, ne, nyet, nein, non!!!

Mary NEVER sinned. According to Scripture,
St. Joseph was (and still is!) “a just man” (c.f. Matt. 1). He was chosen by God Himself to be the chaste spouse of Our Lady and the foster-father of the the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ. So how holy must he have been to be worthy of such a dignity?

Blessed be Jesus Christ, True God and True Man.

Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most holy.

Blessed be St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse.

Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints.


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It’s actually very simple. In Jewish law Joseph is the legal father of Jesus whether there was an official adoption or not. Jesus is Joseph’s son. The only exception may be if another “father” came forward claiming He was his son…which didn’t happen according to history.
At least not until His baptism … “Behold, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased …”
 
I still wonder if they committed even a venial sin by omitting the truth of Jesus’ origin to their family and friends.
You brought up an interesting point I never really considered. Assuming the dogma that St. Joseph & the Virgin Mary didn’t have children together, and since they professed publicly that Jesus was the son of Joseph, and since Mary was indeed a virgin when she was betrothed to St. Joseph, this would mean that when the betrothal period was over & it was discovered Mary was pregnant with Jesus, it would have been assumed by others that St. Joseph was the father (which is the claim they were initially making). In the OT law, when a man & woman got married, in order to “prove” she was a virgin, the bride would have to produce the “blood-stained” sheet the married couple consummated on. If it was clean, this meant the woman was not a virgin prior to the marriage & could be stoned. Obviously, remaining a virgin after the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary…and Jesus was conceived…she couldn’t “prove” her virginity this way. Since Mary couldn’t produce this, then the public, including both families, would have called for her stoning believing (falsely) that she lost her virginity prior to her marriage to Joseph. But if they “did” consummate (which I’m not saying they did), wouldn’t Mary be able to prove her virginity this way “if” they consummated after the betrothal period was over, while she was pregnant with Jesus?

Sorry about the LONG run-on sentences. Just didn’t know how to form this correctly. Nor am I sure that I am getting my point across. Sorry ahead for any confusion.
 
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