Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

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zerinus said:
I am not refusing to dialog with him. He has made a statement to which nothing can be said. The only reply that I can give to him is to say that I have read the Book of Mormon, and the Spirit of the Lord witnesses to me that it is true. Neither of us then have anything else to say to each other. He cannot accept my position, and I cannot accept his.

zerinus
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Please tell me how, exactly, the Spirit of the Lord revealed this truth to you. Did he or she or it speak to you in a dream or waking vision? Was certain objective evidence shown to you that convinced you? Did you get some kind of feeling that confirmed its accuracy?

🤷

(I’m not avoiding reading 3 Nehpi, i’m just responding to your reply to me. I’m still going to read the passage.)
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Please tell me how, exactly, the Spirit of the Lord revealed this truth to you. Did he or she or it speak to you in a dream or waking vision? Was certain objective evidence shown to you that convinced you? Did you get some kind of feeling that confirmed its accuracy?

🤷
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When the Holy Spirit witnesses to you that something is true, it is spirit talking to the spirit. It is not something that can be described, conveyed, or communicated to someone else. It is something that both enlightens your mind, as well as touches your heart, so that you just know that it is true. Allow me to quote you some verses from the Bible:

John 14:

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Do you believe in these scriptures? Do you think that what they are saying is true? If you believe that they are true, I can turn your own question round to you and ask, How does the Holy Ghost accomplish this? How does He “teach you all things,” and “guide you into all truth”? Have you experienced this yourself? Can you describe it to me? I don’t think that you can. Nevertheless it is true. The Holy Ghost does indeed “teach you all things,” and “lead you into all truth;” but nobody who has experienced it can describe to you how it happens. It is something that enlightens your mind and enables you to know what is true. Allow me to quote you some more verses from the Bible:

1 John 2:

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

“Unction” here means an “anointing,” and it refers to the anointing of the Holy Ghost. The Bible says that Jesus was “anointed with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 10:38); and it is the same anointing that all the saints receive. And it says that this “anointing” (of the Holy Ghost) enables you to “know all things”. In verse 27 of the same chapter John clarifies this even further by saying:

27 But the anointing [of the Holy Ghost] which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Did you hear that? It keeps on teaching the same thing, that the Holy Ghost when imparted to you can enlighten your mind, lead you to all truth, teaches you all things you need to know, so that you need not be in the dark about anything, and “ye need not that any man teach you”. Now, question for you: How does the Holy Ghost do all of that? Have you experienced it? If you have can you describe it to me? Well I have experienced it, and I can tell you that it is not something that you can describe to someone else. If you want to see an example of it in action, here is one:

Matthew 16:

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

How did Peter receive his testimony that Jesus was the Son of God? Could he have described it to you? I think not, because he himself apparently didn’t know! Jesus had to tell him where it came from! It had come from God, by the power of His Spirit. That is how the Holy Spirit operates on the mind. It enables you to know something that you hadn’t known before. You can’t describe how you know it. You just know that you know it.

That is also the promise that is associated with the Book of Mormon. It says that if you read it, with a sincere desire to know that it is true, that truth will be manifested to you in an unmistakable way by the power of the Holy Ghost. And then it goes on to say that “And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things” (Moroni 10:5), not just the truth of the Book of Mormon.
(I’m not avoiding reading 3 Nehpi, i’m just responding to your reply to me. I’m still going to read the passage.)
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Thank you. And I look forward to answer any questions you may have about it after you have read it.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
When the Holy Spirit witnesses to you that something is true, it is spirit talking to the spirit. It is not something that can be described, conveyed, or communicated to someone else. It is something that both enlightens your mind, as well as touches your heart, so that you just know that it is true. Allow me to quote you some verses from the Bible:

John 14:

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.Do you believe in these scriptures? Do you think that what they are saying is true? If you believe that they are true, I can turn your own question round to you and ask, How does the Holy Ghost accomplish this? How does He “teach you all things,” and “guide you into all truth”? Have you experienced this yourself? Can you describe it to me? I don’t think that you can. Nevertheless it is true. The Holy Ghost does indeed “teach you all things,” and “lead you into all truth;” but nobody who has experienced it can describe to you how it happens. It is something that enlightens your mind and enables you to know what is true. Allow me to quote you some more verses from the …zerinus
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Zerinus:

Looking at the first passages in a different (though not necessarily better) translation, Jesus says:

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Your Lord and mine then goes on to say:… 25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

(John 14)

Your question to me was, “How does He teach you all things?” I believe you or i do not have to look far for the answer to the question, for Jesus says in verse 26:

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, **will … remind you of everything I have said to you. **

Often, when i ask questions of God, or when someone asks questions of me, i’m reminded of something Jesus said that has just the right answer for which i or the person asking the question is looking. It’s not a feeling i get as much as it is a kind of total recall. I may not remember word-for-word what he said, but i remember idea-for-idea what he said.

Your other questions to me were, “Have you experienced this yourself? Can you describe it to me? I don’t think that you can.”

The answers to these questions are: "Yes, i have experienced what Jesus was talking about. Yes, i believe i just did describe it sufficiently to you.

What do you think?
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Zerinus:

Looking at the first passages in a different (though not necessarily better) translation, Jesus says:

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Your Lord and mine then goes on to say:… 25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

(John 14)

Your question to me was, “How does He teach you all things?” I believe you or i do not have to look far for the answer to the question, for Jesus says in verse 26:

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will … remind you of everything I have said to you.

Often, when i ask questions of God, or when someone asks questions of me, i’m reminded of something Jesus said that has just the right answer for which i or the person asking the question is looking. It’s not a feeling i get as much as it is a kind of total recall. I may not remember word-for-word what he said, but i remember idea-for-idea what he said.

Your other questions to me were, “Have you experienced this yourself? Can you describe it to me? I don’t think that you can.”

The answers to these questions are: "Yes, i have experienced what Jesus was talking about. Yes, i believe i just did describe it sufficiently to you.

What do you think?
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Thank you for your response. You have taken a very narrow view of my quotes. “Reminding them” of what Jesus had taught them was only ONE of the things that the Holy Ghost would do. The rest of the passages I had quoted make it very clear that the Holy Ghost was actually REVEAL many great truths to them, not just to remind them of what Jesus had taught them. Remember the experience of Peter. The Spirit did not just “remind” peter that Jesus was the Son of God; but actually gave him a divine witness of it which he did not have before.

zerinus
 
Jerusha said:
Mosiah 2:31

Here is some abysmal stuff:
3 Nephi 21 portrays a Jesus I do not know: See v. 14 - 22.

“Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots; and I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds; and I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers; thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands; and I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities. And It will come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away. For it will come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel; And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”

We are going to have fun today!!!
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Yes we certainly are going to have fun! :bounce:

It is interesting that you omitted the beginning of that chapter. I think that it is important that it is included. It is the brief summary:

Israel shall be gathered when the Book of Mormon comes forth—The Gentiles shall be established as a free people in America—They shall be saved if they believe and obey; otherwise they shall be cut off and destroyed—Israel shall build the New Jerusalem, and the lost tribes shall return. [A.D. 34]
This is the context of the chapter. Now I must say that the message was somewhat different from the new testament. But then again he was dealing with a different people and he had a different message. Also, the book of mormon message is a message also for modern times and so much of what christ said is also directed to us today. I think that mormons would claim that both books compliment the other although at times the teachings are different. Also, you seem to forget the more gentle words of Jesus in the book of mormon. In the book he did teach the beatitudes etc. Now lets not take it all out of context.
 
Here are the summaries of the teachings of Christ in the Book of Mormon.

They are from chapters 12 to 30:

Chapter 12
Jesus calls and commissions the Twelve—He delivers to the Nephites a discourse similar to the Sermon on the Mount—He speaks the Beatitudes—His teachings transcend and take precedence over the law of Moses—Men are commanded to be perfect even as he and his Father are perfect—Compare Matthew 5. [A.D. 34]

Chapter 13
Jesus teaches the Nephites the Lord’s Prayer—They are to lay up treasures in heaven—The Twelve in their ministry are commanded to take no thought for temporal things—Compare Matthew 6. [A.D. 34]

Chapter 14
Jesus commands: Judge not; ask of God; beware of false prophets—He promises salvation to those who do the will of the Father—Compare Matthew 7. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 15
Jesus announces that the law of Moses is fulfilled in him—The Nephites are the other sheep of whom he spake in Jerusalem—Because of iniquity the Lord’s people in Jerusalem do not know of the scattered sheep of Israel. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 16
Jesus will visit others of the lost sheep of Israel—In the latter days the gospel will go to the Gentiles and then to the house of Israel—The Lord’s people shall see eye to eye when he brings again Zion. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 17
Jesus directs the people to ponder his words and pray for understanding—He heals their sick—He prays for the people, using language that cannot be written—Angels minister to and fire encircles their little ones. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 18
Jesus institutes the sacrament among the Nephites—They are commanded to pray always in his name—Those who eat his flesh and drink his blood unworthily are damned—The disciples are given power to confer the Holy Ghost. [A.D. 34] (This sounds Catholic to me!)

CHAPTER 19
The Twelve Disciples minister unto the people and pray for the Holy Ghost—They are baptized and receive the Holy Ghost and the ministering of angels—Jesus prays using words that cannot be written—He attests to the exceedingly great faith of these Nephites. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 20
Jesus provides bread and wine miraculously and again administers the sacrament unto them—The remnant of Jacob shall come to the knowledge of the Lord their God and shall inherit the Americas—Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses, and the Nephites are children of the prophets—Others of the Lord’s people shall be gathered to Jerusalem. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 21
Israel shall be gathered when the Book of Mormon comes forth—The Gentiles shall be established as a free people in America—They shall be saved if they believe and obey; otherwise they shall be cut off and destroyed—Israel shall build the New Jerusalem, and the lost tribes shall return. [A.D. 34]
 
Chapter summaries continued:

CHAPTER 22
In the last days, Zion and her stakes shall be established, and Israel shall be gathered in mercy and tenderness—They shall triumph—Compare Isaiah 54. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 23
Jesus approves the words of Isaiah—He commands the people to search the prophets—The words of Samuel the Lamanite concerning the resurrection are added to their records. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 24
The Lord’s messenger shall prepare the way for the Second Coming—Christ shall sit in judgment—Israel is commanded to pay tithes and offerings—A book of remembrance is kept—Compare Malachi 3. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 25
At the Second Coming the proud and wicked shall be burned as stubble—Elijah shall return before that great and dreadful day—Compare Malachi 4. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 26
Jesus expounds all things from the beginning to the end—Babes and children utter marvelous things which cannot be written—Those in the Church of Christ have all things in common among them. [A.D. 34]

CHAPTER 27
Jesus commands them to call the Church in his name—His mission and atoning sacrifice constitute his gospel—Men are commanded to repent and be baptized that they may be sanctified by the Holy Ghost—They are to be even as Jesus is. Between A.D. 34 and 35

CHAPTER 28
Nine of the Twelve desire and are promised an inheritance in Christ’s kingdom when they die—The Three Nephites desire and are given power over death so as to remain on the earth until Jesus comes again—They are translated and see things not lawful to utter, and they are now ministering among men. Between A.D. 34 and 35

CHAPTER 29
The coming forth of the Book of Mormon is a sign that the Lord has commenced to gather Israel and fulfill his covenants—Those who reject his latter-day revelations and gifts shall be cursed. Between A.D. 34 and 35

CHAPTER 30
The latter-day Gentiles are commanded to repent and come unto Christ and be numbered with the house of Israel. Between A.D. 34 and 35

Now that was really fun!! 😊

I included chapter summaries so that when Jerusha begins to quote from the times of christ in the book of mormon, all can look up the context.
 
why_me said:
Yes we certainly are going to have fun! :bounce:

It is interesting that you omitted the beginning of that chapter. I think that it is important that it is included. It is the brief summary:

Israel shall be gathered when the Book of Mormon comes forth—The Gentiles shall be established as a free people in America—They shall be saved if they believe and obey; otherwise they shall be cut off and destroyed—Israel shall build the New Jerusalem, and the lost tribes shall return. [A.D. 34]
This is the context of the chapter. Now I must say that the message was somewhat different from the new testament. But then again he was dealing with a different people and he had a different message. Also, the book of mormon message is a message also for modern times and so much of what christ said is also directed to us today. I think that mormons would claim that both books compliment the other although at times the teachings are different. Also, you seem to forget the more gentle words of Jesus in the book of mormon. In the book he did teach the beatitudes etc. Now lets not take it all out of context.
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He ain’t gona have any “fun” while I am around, I can tell you that!

That passage he quoted is a direct quote from the Old Testament prophet Micah. Here is the original passage in the Bible:

Micah 5:

8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:

12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

14 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

The Lord quotes a passage from the Old Testament prophet in order to explain to the Nephrites how the Old Testament prophecy will be fulfilled and play out in the last days, and the role that the house of Israel will play in fulfilling it. There is nothing unusual about that. In the Bible Jesus often quotes from Old Testament prophecy, especially from Isaiah and the Psalms, but also from other prophets, to teach a lesson or explain a point. Here He is quoting from Micah to prophesy to the Nephrites what their future destiny will be. It also enables us to better understand the meaning of those ancient prophecies, which are often difficult for us to understand. It is aimed at us as well as at them.

I could have replied to him myself If I had wanted to; but I didn’t because I didn’t think that he deserved any. 🙂

zerinus
 
yes many sections of the BoM quote the Bible. What seems to be missing from the BoM are any references to the people in it teaching/practicing any of the uniquely mormon doctrines that we see in the church that Joseph Smith organized. going back to the OP… where is Joseph Smith preaching the message of the BoM? it would appear from a reading of LDS history sources (DHC, TPJS, etc.) that once the BoM was published his focus was on “new” revelations (D&C, BoA, Temple Ceremony, etc.)
 
Aha!! Then that is exactly what happened to the “Nephites” (Vikings) in North America!!! And is also happening to their successors, the LDS? Now I understand. The BOM prophesies the end of the same church it started!! Thank you for giving me the light of understanding. BTW, it will never change my skin color.

:rotfl: I told you I was going to have fun!!!

Jesus, BTW, would never have paraphrased that section of Micah. It was not a part of His message.
 
zerinus said:
Thank you for your response. You have taken a very narrow view of my quotes. “Reminding them” of what Jesus had taught them was only ONE of the things that the Holy Ghost would do. The rest of the passages I had quoted make it very clear that the Holy Ghost was actually REVEAL many great truths to them, not just to remind them of what Jesus had taught them. Remember the experience of Peter. The Spirit did not just “remind” peter that Jesus was the Son of God; but actually gave him a divine witness of it which he did not have before.

zerinus
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Thank you for responding, Zerinus.In reading Matthew’s gospel about Jesus, i find something interesting:

And [Jesus] said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. *(Matthew 14)*Notice the words the followers of Jesus said after He pulled Peter into the boat and the storm suddenly stopped raging: “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Now, the disciples of Jesus in the boat said these words in the presence of Peter before Peter made the same confession about Jesus Christ two chapters later in the same gospel. It appears, then, that the idea that Jesus is the Son of God was not some sudden revelation given to Peter at the moment Jesus asked him who he thought He was. Instead, it was an idea that he had heard several days before when Jesus miraculously walked on water and stopped a raging storm.

Moreover, the time Peter was saved from drowning was not the first time he heard that Jesus was the Son of God. Many days prior to this he heard demon-possessed men say the very same truth:

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee,** Jesus, thou Son of God**? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? *(Matthew 8)*One might say that the demons were the first to reveal this truth to the disciples, as scary as that sounds! I imagine that after Jesus exorcised the demons so that they entered a herd of pigs and rand off a clift and drowned, the disciples had several discussions about what these demons said and whether it is really true. It’s possible that the miracles Jesus did by walking on water and calming storms confirmed, to them, that He really was the Son of God.

One thing is certain: Peter was not the first to have this idea. Since he was not the first to hear or say the words that Jesus is the Son of God, then, what do you think Jesus meant when He said the following to Peter?And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 16:17)🤷
 
zerinus said:
I don’t have any particular chapter that I would like you to read. I recommend that you read all of it! I just thought that your question would have been more meaningful if it had been asked in the context of actually having read the book.

However, if you would like me to recommend you a chapter to read, so that you can discuss it with me, I recommend the book of Third Nephi. That is the culmination of the Book of Mormon, where the Savior appears to the Nephites after His resurrection, and instructs them in the ways of salvation.

zerinus
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Thanks for the recommendation, Zerinus. I hope you don’t mind that i’ve finished the first chapter of 3 Nephi and already have a question!

I understand from the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament that Abraham’s son Isaac had a son named Jacob, and Jacob had 12 sons, from which the 12 tribes of the Jewish people are descended. For example, Levi was a son of Jacob from whom came the Levites. I’m assuming that the Nephites came from Nephi, but who was Nephi’s father and how is his father related to Abraham?

🤷
 
Zerinus:

Sorry for asking so many questions. I find getting answers to my questions is the best way to learn the truth.

🙂
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
In reading Matthew’s gospel about Jesus, i find something interesting:

And [Jesus] said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. *(Matthew 14)*Notice the words the followers of Jesus said after He pulled Peter into the boat and the storm suddenly stopped raging: “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Now, the disciples of Jesus in the boat said these words in the presence of Peter before Peter made the same confession about Jesus Christ two chapters later in the same gospel. It appears, then, that the idea that Jesus is the Son of God was not some sudden revelation given to Peter at the moment Jesus asked him who he thought He was. Instead, it was an idea that he had heard several days before when Jesus miraculously walked on water and stopped a raging storm.

Moreover, the time Peter was saved from drowning was not the first time he heard that Jesus was the Son of God. Many days prior to this he heard demon-possessed men say the very same truth:

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee,** Jesus, thou Son of God**? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? *(Matthew 8)*One might say that the demons were the first to reveal this truth to the disciples, as scary as that sounds! I imagine that after Jesus exorcised the demons so that they entered a herd of pigs and rand off a clift and drowned, the disciples had several discussions about what these demons said and whether it is really true. It’s possible that the miracles Jesus did by walking on water and calming storms confirmed, to them, that He really was the Son of God.

One thing is certain: Peter was not the first to have this idea. Since he was not the first to hear or say the words that Jesus is the Son of God, then, what do you think Jesus meant when He said the following to Peter?And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 16:17)
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I think it means that knowledge, or testimony, or conviction can only come by the Holy Ghost, regardless of whether that was the first time that they had heard or expressed it, or not. Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 12:

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Joseph Smith in his inspired translation of the Bible changed that to say, "No man can know that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost;" which makes better sense, because anybody can say that Jesus is Lord (without meaning it, as a hypocrite might, for example); but to know that Jesus is Lord requires the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

zerinus
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Thanks for the recommendation, Zerinus. I hope you don’t mind that i’ve finished the first chapter of 3 Nephi and already have a question!

I understand from the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament that Abraham’s son Isaac had a son named Jacob, and Jacob had 12 sons, from which the 12 tribes of the Jewish people are descended. For example, Levi was a son of Jacob from whom came the Levites. I’m assuming that the Nephites came from Nephi, but who was Nephi’s father and how is his father related to Abraham?

🤷
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To know that you have to read the rest of the Book of Mormon! 🙂 If you read the book of First Nephi, it will tell you. Nephi’s Father was called Lehi, who emigrated from Jerusalem by the commandment of the Lord at around 600 BC, and by the Lord’s instructions built a ship whereby he and his family migrated to the Americas. Lehi was a descendent of Manasseh, son of Joseph, who was son of Jacob.

zerinus
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Zerinus:

Sorry for asking so many questions. I find getting answers to my questions is the best way to learn the truth.

🙂
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No problem at all. My pleasure to answer your questions. Next week I am going to be a little busy, so I may not be able to answer your questions as promptly as I would like; but after that everything should be back to normal.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I think it means that knowledge, or testimony, or conviction can only come by the Holy Ghost, regardless of whether that was the first time that they had heard or expressed it, or not. Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.Joseph Smith in his inspired translation of the Bible changed that to say, "No man can know that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost;" which makes better sense, because anybody can say that Jesus is Lord (without meaning it, as a hypocrite might, for example); but to know that Jesus is Lord requires the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

zerinus
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Zerinus:

Yes, i see what you mean! 👍

We are talking about how one comes to believe the truth, and you or i have only to look at a dictionary to see that the word believe has three common meanings:
    • To think something might be true
    • To know something is, without a doubt, true
    • To put one’s complete trust and commitment in that which one knows, without a doubt, is true
      What i think you might be saying is this: When Jesus said the Holy Ghost revealed the truth to Peter, He meant revealed to mean that the Holy Ghost caused Peter to believe in the sense of definition (2) or definition (3).
    We are considering three examples when Peter heard or spoke the words that Jesus was the Son of God:

    A. When the demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8)B. When the disciples called Jesus the Son of God after he walked on water and stopped a storm (Matthew 14)C. When Jesus asked Peter who he thought He really was (Matthew 16)
    My next questions, then, are these:
    • If you had to hazard a guess, at what point (A), (B) or (C) do you think Peter believed in the sense of definition (1)?
    • At what point (A), (B) or (C) did he believe in the sense of definition (2)?
    • And at what point (A), (B) or (C) did he believe in the sense of definition (3)?
 
zerinus said:
To know that you have to read the rest of the Book of Mormon! 🙂 If you read the book of First Nephi, it will tell you. Nephi’s Father was called Lehi, who emigrated from Jerusalem by the commandment of the Lord at around 600 BC, and by the Lord’s instructions built a ship whereby he and his family migrated to the Americas. Lehi was a descendent of Manasseh, son of Joseph, who was son of Jacob.

zerinus
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Thank you. On to chapter two!
👍
 
zerinus said:
No problem at all. My pleasure to answer your questions. Next week I am going to be a little busy, so I may not be able to answer your questions as promptly as I would like; but after that everything should be back to normal.

zerinus
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Not a problem, Zer (may i call you Zer? You may call me Soc, if you prefer.) That’s the beauty of a discussion board: One may take his time to answer. Like the Bible, if one loses his train of thought, he need only to reread what he forgot!

🙂
 
zerinus said:
The Lord quotes a passage from the Old Testament

zerinus
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In the New Testament Gospels, Christ quotes directly from the Septuagint. In the BoM, Christ quotes directly from the King James version of the Old Testament.

Incongruous at best. Plagiarism at its finest.
 
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