Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

[zerinus]

Yes, Zer, that is my desire, and i’m attempting to wrap my mind around what you are saying to me. Please let me know if i’m getting closer:

I think what you are saying is that it is not an emotional feeling of a fire in your heart (whatever that might be) that leads you to believe that the Book of Mormon is true. Rather, it is a strong feeling of conviction, that comes from the Holy Spirit, that leads you to believe the book is true.

Am i understanding you correctly, or do you need to give me further explanation to help me understand?

See my previous post.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Yes, i like that passage. It reminds me of David’s words:

Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law.*(Psalms 119)*I’m not one to easily shed tears, yet this is a psalm that i’ve never been able to read without having an emotional reaction.

Very well, then, it has long been my desire that the Holy Spirit open my eyes to the truth. As He has in the past, i shall trust Him to do now. This shall be my prayer as i read the Book of Mormon.

Yes, that is the correct path to pursue.

zerinus

 

[holdencaulfield]

Yes, i like that passage. It reminds me of David’s words:

Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law.*(Psalms 119)*I’m not one to easily shed tears, yet this is a psalm that i’ve never been able to read without having an emotional reaction.

Very well, then, it has long been my desire that the Holy Spirit open my eyes to the truth. As He has in the past, i shall trust Him to do now. This shall be my prayer as i read the Book of Mormon.

It’s probably similar, because Joseph Smith plagiarized it like he did other large portions of the Bible.

 

[holdencaulfield]

The answer to that is “be not faithless, but believing” (John 20:27).

The only problem with this zer is that it refers to Christianity, not the neo-pagan religion of Mormonism. The way you take quotes out of context, a Hindu could use this quote to prove their religion with the Bible. If you want people to take you seriously at least keep things in their original context.

 

[hosemonkey]

The only problem with this zer is that it refers to Christianity, not the neo-pagan religion of Mormonism. The way you take quotes out of context, a Hindu could use this quote to prove their religion with the Bible. If you want people to take you seriously at least keep things in their original context.

Exactly. What zerinus and most mormons refuse to acknowledge is that the BOM is entirely a product of Joe Smith’s fertile imagination and a very large helping of plagarism from both the KJV and a work called “A View Of The Hebrews”. Other authorities believe that Oliver Cowdery wrote most of it. All the blather about “Golden Plates” that conveniently disappeared is all hay that has already been through the horse. The whole body of mormon claptrap is false and deceptive.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

And of course, hosemonkey, I know I am speaking to the choir here, but, new readers to these ‘mormon chronicles’ should ALWAYS state the Prime Directive:

“If the Book of mormon completes the Bible, then why doesn’t any Christian group or faith incorporate it into their theology?”

listen!..a resounding silence!

Robert

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Yes, that is the correct path to pursue.

zerinus

Thanks for your patience and candor Zer. I’ll think about all you and the others have said, pray for wisdom, and let you know what questions i have.

One question, i think you missed, is my question about 3 Nephi, chapters 3 and 4. I was wondering in what geographical region the battles mentioned in those chapters took place. Were they fought in what is today North America?

 

[zerinus]

One question, i think you missed, is my question about 3 Nephi, chapters 3 and 4. I was wondering in what geographical region the battles mentioned in those chapters took place. Were they fought in what is today North America?

I did answer that question for you in post #216 of this thread.

zerinus

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I did answer that question for you in post #216 of this thread.

zerinus

Yes, i missed that. Thank you.

I found a great resource for searching the Book of Mormon, here:

scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents

At this Web site i found these words:

And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.
(Helaman 3:8)

This passage seems to suggest that they migrated to North America as well as Central and South America. Are there some Latter Day Saints who believe this?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Zer:

I’ve been using the term Latter Day Saints, as i have heard that some in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not like to be called Mormons. Is Mormon an acceptable way to refer to a member of your church, or do you prefer Latter Day Saint?

 

[zerinus]

Yes, i missed that. Thank you.

I found a great resource for searching the Book of Mormon, here:

scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents

That is from the Church’s official website. You can find all of the scriptures of the Church, as well as Bible Dictionary, Topical Guide, and other useful guides and study aids listed here. If you are interested, there is a searchable computerized edition of LDS scriptures on a CD that you can buy and install on your computer. It is very cheap, and is an excellent resource for researching and studying the Scriptures. I would be handicapped without it for posting messages on this board.

At this Web site i found these words:

And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.
(Helaman 3:8)

This passage seems to suggest that they migrated to North America as well as Central and South America. Are there some Latter Day Saints who believe this?

Yes, they did migrate at some point into North America. But how widespread was their coverage, or whether it was still confined to a limited geographical area can only be guessed at.

Zer:

I’ve been using the term Latter Day Saints, as i have heard that some in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not like to be called Mormons. Is Mormon an acceptable way to refer to a member of your church, or do you prefer Latter Day Saint?

I have no problem with being called “a Mormon,” and I don’t think most Church members would either. But I would not refer to the Church itself as the “Mormon Church”. I would refer to it either by its full name, or call it the LDS Church.

zerinus

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… The promise made in Moroni 10:1–5 says nothing about any “burning in the bosom”. It merely says that you shall know the truth of it by the power of the Holy Ghost. How the Holy Ghost chooses to communicate that message to you is the Holy Ghost’s business. I am not in the business of second guessing the Holy Ghost, and neither should any body else be.

zerinus

I do appreciate your candid answer, my friend Zer. I took a look at Moroni 10 today:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and bponder it in your chearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things.

I was wondering what are the things that i should ask the Eternal Father are true, and what things you have found to be true in the Book of Mormon.

For i have lately been thinking about truth and find that there are many categories of truth. There are, for example:

(A) Mathematical truths

(B) Observational truths

(C) Testimonial truths

(D) Historical truths

(E) Scientific truths

(F) Emotional truths

(G) Moral truths

(H) Metaphysical truths

When you say you believe the Book of Mormon to be true, it might be that you believe it to be true in the sense of (G), but not in the sense of (D). I have read, for example, that some devout Latter Day Saints do not believe that the Book of Mormon is historically accurate, but believe it is accurate in what it teaches about the gods and morality.

The same might be said to be true with non-Mormon Christianity, where one finds some liberal scholars who believe the Bible has profound moral truths, but is lacking in its depiction of who Jesus was and what he did. Some such scholars say Jesus was not God, but he did have a good understanding of what pleases God.

So, i’m interested in knowing what category, type, or kind of truth i should ask the Eternal Father to give me, and what category, kind or type of truth i should expect the Holy Ghost to manifest to me as a result of my faith in Christ. I’d like to know for what i should ask before i pray, for John writes:

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

(1 John 5:13-15)
That is, i want to pray according to His will. If you cannot say for certain what will be revealed to me, please tell me what kinds of truth the Holy Ghost has manifested to you about the Book of Mormon. Is it true in every way, or in some ways more than others?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

That is from the Church’s official website. You can find all of the scriptures of the Church, as well as Bible Dictionary, Topical Guide, and other useful guides and study aids listed here. If you are interested, there is a searchable computerized edition of LDS scriptures on a CD that you can buy and install on your computer. It is very cheap, and is an excellent resource for researching and studying the Scriptures. I would be handicapped without it for posting messages on this board.

Yes, they did migrate at some point into North America. But how widespread was their coverage, or whether it was still confined to a limited geographical area can only be guessed at.

I have no problem with being called “a Mormon,” and I don’t think most Church members would either. But I would not refer to the Church itself as the “Mormon Church”. I would refer to it either by its full name, or call it the LDS Church.

zerinus

Thank you.

 

[zerinus]

I do appreciate your candid answer, my friend Zer. I took a look at Moroni 10 today:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and bponder it in your chearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things.

I was wondering what are the things that i should ask the Eternal Father are true, and what things you have found to be true in the Book of Mormon.

For i have lately been thinking about truth and find that there are many categories of truth. There are, for example:

(A) Mathematical truths

(B) Observational truths

(C) Testimonial truths

(D) Historical truths

(E) Scientific truths

(F) Emotional truths

(G) Moral truths

(H) Metaphysical truths

When you say you believe the Book of Mormon to be true, it might be that you believe it to be true in the sense of (G), but not in the sense of (D). I have read, for example, that some devout Latter Day Saints do not believe that the Book of Mormon is historically accurate, but believe it is accurate in what it teaches about the gods and morality.

The same might be said to be true with non-Mormon Christianity, where one finds some liberal scholars who believe the Bible has profound moral truths, but is lacking in its depiction of who Jesus was and what he did. Some such scholars say Jesus was not God, but he did have a good understanding of what pleases God.

So, i’m interested in knowing what category, type, or kind of truth i should ask the Eternal Father to give me, and what category, kind or type of truth i should expect the Holy Ghost to manifest to me as a result of my faith in Christ. I’d like to know for what i should ask before i pray, for John writes:

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

(1 John 5:13-15)
That is, i want to pray according to His will. If you cannot say for certain what will be revealed to me, please tell me what kinds of truth the Holy Ghost has manifested to you about the Book of Mormon. Is it true in every way, or in some ways more than others?

I believe that the Book of Mormon is true in every way. It is 1) Historically true. All the events described in it actually took place, and all the people that are mentioned in it actually lived. 2) It is scripturally true. The Book of Mormon is not only true historically, but it is sacred history. It is a book of scripture equal to the Bible. What Peter said about the Bible is applicable to the Book of Mormon: it did not come “by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21). 3) It is theologically true. It contains the “fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ,” as the Lord Himself has testified in our time:

D&C 20:

8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;

9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;

10 Which was given by inspiration, and is confirmed to others by the ministering of angels, and is declared unto the world by them—

11 Proving to the world that the holy scriptures are true, and that God does inspire men and call them to his holy work in this age and generation, as well as in generations of old;

12 Thereby showing that he is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. Amen.

D&C 42:

12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.

zerinus

 

[RebeccaJ]

The Battle Star Galactica series was also created by a Latter Day Saint, Rebecca. I find it interesting that the modern reincarnation of the saga has two waring races–the human race, which believes in the pagan gods and goddesses of the ancient Greeks, and the Cylons, which are cloned human beings, who believe in only one god.

I think that with any work of fiction one can take the good and leave the bad. The Battle Star Galactica TV series, for example, does a great job of exploring the reasons why terrorists would blow themselves up to kill their enemies, and the immorality of torture, and how war drives people to do horrific things that they would, in times of peace, never consider. However, i think it would be a mistake to form one’s religious beliefs based on the fictional epic.

Yeah, I know it is. I used to watch the original, when I was younger and living at home and being “mormon”. The references to mormon beliefs was quite a shock then. References to Kolob especially.

A fictional epic is exactly what the BoM is.

 

[mjf001]

I believe that the Book of Mormon is true in every way. It is 1) Historically true. All the events described in it actually took place, and all the people that are mentioned in it actually lived. 2) It is scripturally true. The Book of Mormon is not only true historically, but it is sacred history. It is a book of scripture equal to the Bible. What Peter said about the Bible is applicable to the Book of Mormon: it did not come “by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21). 3) It is theologically true. It contains the “fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ,” as the Lord Himself has testified in our time:

D&C 20:

8 And gave him power from on high, by the means which were before prepared, to translate the Book of Mormon;

9 Which contains a record of a fallen people, and the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles and to the Jews also;

10 Which was given by inspiration, and is confirmed to others by the ministering of angels, and is declared unto the world by them—

11 Proving to the world that the holy scriptures are true, and that God does inspire men and call them to his holy work in this age and generation, as well as in generations of old;

12 Thereby showing that he is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. Amen.

D&C 42:

12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.

zerinus

How many millions of dollars has been spent by the LDS trying to prove the historical claims of the BoM? For all the money which has been spent, what were the results?
You can find alot of the places mentioned in the Bible, no blind faith required. For the BoM; however, blind faith is all that’s available. Not one verifiable fact. I’m sorry, I’ll take 2000 years of tradition, a Holy Book you can trust, over what’s offered by the LDS. Truth is not subjective, you should not have to put blinders on to know the truth.

 

[mjf001]

Yeah, I know it is. I used to watch the original, when I was younger and living at home and being “mormon”. The references to mormon beliefs was quite a shock then. References to Kolob especially.

A fictional epic is exactly what the BoM is.

I watched this show Saturday afternoons on channel 20 (This was a local UHF channel, which eventually became the Fox affiliate after switching to VHF - for all not familiar with SLC). Everytime my dad noticed me watching it, he would start talking about the lost tribes of Israel. He didn’t understand I was only interested in the show for the laser guns , oh yeah, and the space battles. Funny, they seemed alot cooler, back then. Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack the thread, just brought back memories.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Yeah, I know it is. I used to watch the original, when I was younger and living at home and being “mormon”. The references to mormon beliefs was quite a shock then. References to Kolob especially.

A fictional epic is exactly what the BoM is.

Interesting Rebecca. What is the relationship between Kobol and the LDS church? In the latest TV series it is the planet where the Greek gods and goddesses once lived in the presence of the human race.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

How many millions of dollars has been spent by the LDS trying to prove the historical claims of the BoM? For all the money which has been spent, what were the results?
You can find alot of the places mentioned in the Bible, no blind faith required. For the BoM; however, blind faith is all that’s available. Not one verifiable fact. I’m sorry, I’ll take 2000 years of tradition, a Holy Book you can trust, over what’s offered by the LDS. Truth is not subjective, you should not have to put blinders on to know the truth.

Thanks for your opinion, MJF. From what i understand (and my understanding might not be complete), Zer seems to be saying that the following truths can be discerned by the work of the Holy Spirit on you or i, despite any additional, objective evidence supporting them:

(A) Mathematical truths(B) Observational truths(C) Testimonial truths(D) Historical truths(E) Scientific truths(F) Emotional truths(G) Moral truths(H) Metaphysical truthsYou appear to be saying that there is no historical evidence or archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon, so one cannot say that it has (D), nor can one say that there are any (E) to demonstrate it accurately depicts ancient history. So, the Book of Mormon should be rejected on historical and scientific grounds. Is this what you are saying?

 

[hosemonkey]

Interesting. What is the relation between the planet Kobol and the LDS church?

Be advised, regardless of what zerinus might tell you, the mormon “church” is built on fraud and deception. Joseph Smith was a con man who fabricated the entire belief system. The theology of the mormon “church” is non-Christian, in spite of their many protestations to the contrary. No mainstream Christian organization recognizes the mormon “church” as being Christian. Do not be deceived. Appearrently the mormon “god” lives on Kolob.