Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

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zerinus said:
I have just finished watching President Hinckley’s funeral service on the Internet, therefore did not get the chance to reply to many posts.
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I suppose that if a presidential candidate can miss campaigning to attend the funeral, we cannot fault you, either!

🙂
 
zerinus said:
… I am saying neither—although both may be true! 😃 All I said was that I believe that when the Holy Ghost witnesses to you that the Book of Mormon is true, it will strengthen, or give you added conviction that the Bible is true. That surely is not a difficult concept to understand; nor does it require me to answer your above questions in order to clarify it. You are asking me to read what is in your mind! I am not a mind reader, and never claimed to be!
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OK, thank you! I wanted to be sure i was not misunderstanding you. Are you saying, then, that a person can have a personal conviction that the Bible is true, and an intense interest in reading the Bible, without even reading the Book of Mormon?
 
truthsilence said:
Zerinus, here are a few specific quotes to refresh your memory:
“Your church is apostate. It has no priesthood authority to baptize anybody”.
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It is easy to misrepresent someone by quoting them out of context. Why didn’t you provide the links, so that people could know the context in which they were spoken? Some of these quotes must be very old, because there are one or two of them that I do not recollect.

zerinus
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zerinus said:
It is easy to misrepresent someone by quoting them out of context

. Why didn’t you provide the links, so that people could know the context in which they were spoken? Some of these quotes must be very old, because there are one or two of them that I do not recollect.

zerinus

Which, we might add yet again, is THE mormon way of discussing what’s “wrong” with Christianity.

We all have the cites, zerinus, they’re easily obtained.

The shame of it is the lying you do “for the Lord” as if it is permissable.

It is intellectually dishonest and it is a sin.

Of course, on the planet Kolob [where I am sure Hinkley and Jos Smith are enjoying an uncaffeinated beverage] it is de riguer.

Robert
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why_me said:
I think that he was referring to calling catholics apostates. This is why he made a distinction between former mormon now catholics railing against the lds and never mormon catholics railing against the church. The former mormon now catholics are apostates since they are waging war against their former faith.
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hey whyme:

What part of “Your church is apostate” do you NOT understand???

Words say what they say and mean what they mean, that is, in non-mormon contexts.

Read the quotations, if any of those words confuse you, go look up the common definition in an accepted dictionary of the English language. (Try the American Heritage).

If you still are confused, then do not fret, your loins are still girded with the righteousness of Holy Joe and “espouse ten virgins” crowd.:rolleyes:

Robert
 
StevenErickson said:
I am not arguing that the Book of Mormon is true or false, you are. My questions are specifically around receiving answers to prayer.

You seem to shy away from this, despite the fact that you have confirmed that God has spoken to you directly in the past. Are you suggesting that your personal logic and reasoning is superior to direct communication from God?
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My argument had nothing to do with receiving answers to prayer. I have received answers to prayer for most of my life, even I when thought I didn’t believe in anything after leaving the LDS faith. Answers to my prayers eventually led me home to the Catholic church, praise God.
That doesn’t change my previous arguments about whether God would give an affirmative answer in regards to the truth of the BoM.
 
zerinus said:
Actually, I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church (and so has the LDS Church). I have never spoken disrespectfully of the Catholic Church, nor have any other Mormons that have posted here. Okay, we believe that Christianity went into apostasy 2,000 years ago (and you probably believe something worse about us); but that does not mean that we believe the Christian religion or the Catholic Church that exists today (or has existed in the past) is an “evil thing”. The LDS Church respects the Catholic Church, and cooperates with it on humanitarian and other issues.

Some points to note here. I have never called a Catholic person an “apostate” just for being a “Catholic”. When I have applied that term to specific individuals, or set of individuals, I have used it in a very limited and narrow sense. By “apostate” I mean someone who leaves his church or religion, and then hates it, turns against it, wages war against it, and calls it all kinds of evil and hateful names. Religion is a matter of personal choice. If somebody finds that Mormonism, or Catholicism, or Islam, or any other religion does not turn him on, and wishes to leave it and join another religion, that is fine; I have nothing against anyone doing that. Everyone should be free to choose whatever religion the wish to have. But when they afterwards turn against their former religion, declare war against it, and call it all kinds of evil and abusive names, that is a sign that they have something else up their sleeve. I have as much contempt for a Catholic person who leaves the Catholic Church and acts in this way (as many of them do, who become Protestants or Evangelicals, for example), as I have for a Mormon who leaves Mormonism, and then does the same. I am pleased to note that I have never come across a former Catholic turned Mormon that has acted in this way. There may be a few (if there are, they are certainly misguided); but I am glad that I have never come across one yet. Many of them have appeared on this board from time to time; but you can’t show me one that has acted in this way.

Most of the people on this board whose actions you have disapproved of are in fact Mormon “apostates,” according to the definition that I have just given above; and I do not hide the fact that I have nothing but contempt for such people. I think that apostates are the most contemptible and despicable people on the planet—no matter what religion they came from—whether they be Mormon apostates, or Catholic apostates, or any other. They are equally contemptible in my sight. Now if they think that that is uncharitable, then so be it. I am an uncharitable person towards apostates.

zerinus
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As Christians, we have a responsibility to stand up for the truth. I recognized what I saw as falsehoods in the LDS, I looked into them and found the truth. As a Christian, I feel I have a responsibility to share with others what I saw.
 
RAR said:
Zerinus,

I’ve spent the past several hours (including last night) catching up on this thread… and trust me, it’s taken some time. A quick background on me before I ask my question… I’m an orthodox Catholic living in Utah County. I’ve been impressed by many of my LDS neighbors and enjoy sharing many common values. In honesty though, I also feel a responsibility as I see them as sincerely “misguided.”

I am not so interested in discrediting the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith as I am in beginning a discussion on the early Christian church. My main concern is the Great Apostasy… and the necessary Restoration.

I admire your vigor, but I believe it to be misplaced. I understand your dogged urging that we read prayerfully the Book of Mormon and ask for God’s guidance and I respect your excitement you’ve taken from it and that has spread to the Bible… but, I don’t think our prayerful consideration of the written word is the only measuring stick…

I also think it is important to look at a church’s beginnings. In order for the LDS church to have a valid claim to authority, the Great Apostasy would have had to truly occur and a restoration been necessary…

I believe this to be impossible.

That is a strong word, but I mean it sincerely. For the Great Apostasy to have happened, it would have had to be “total” and “complete.” This could simply not be the case. The only explanations I’ve heard for the Great Apostasy are references to a few Bible verses (Thessalonians for example) that seem minor in comparison to Christ’s words in Matthew: You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. At least on the surface it seems the LDS church gives more credence to verses, whose interpretations are less than clear, than it does to Christ’s own very literal words. In fact, to believe that Christ meant anything else, does disservice to the scriptures and to the Apostles who heard His words.

I think just as crucial to my point, is that Christ also promised he would not leave us, that he would always be with us. If Christ is God incarnate and he established his church on Peter, his rock (as He said), it would seem almost silly to me to believe that He would let His church fall into apostasy. Interestingly, the same manner in which the LDS church confers it’s priesthood, namely the laying on of hands, was also used (and still is today) in the early church to do the same. This is partly why the Church could not have fallen away. The others are the Church magisterium and Apostolic succession, but that is for another discussion.

Again, I understand and appreciate your urging for us to prayerfully approach the Book of Mormon, but I also urge you to prayerfully consider the early Christian church… you might start with reading the early church fathers where you’ll see that the church was still very much intact and is mirrored to this day.

Sincerely,
RAR
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I have already discussed this subject with others many times on this board before, and all the topics you have mentioned have been talked about. I don’t have the time right now to search and find them all. But I can give you a shorter and more direct answer. You will find it in this Blog post. If I later find the time I will search and find some of the older threads where I have discussed this subject before.

zerinus
 
mjf001 said:
As Christians, we have a responsibility to stand up for the truth. I recognized what I saw as falsehoods in the LDS, I looked into them and found the truth. As a Christian, I feel I have a responsibility to share with others what I saw.
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Thank you. I also have the responsibility to share my knowledge and testimony of the Restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and the Apostasy of the early Christian church, with others.

zerinus
 
👍

And so it begins…

Thank you Zerinus… I’ve taken a brief look at your link and it looks interesting. My wife and I have music at the Saturday evening Mass so I don’t have time to look at it now, but I will read it and respond later.

RAR

p.s. The opening statement is meant tongue-in-cheek.
 
zerinus said:
Thank you. I also have the responsibility to share my knowledge and testimony of the Restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and the Apostasy of the early Christian church, with others.

zerinus
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With all due respect, we’ve been down this road before. When I challenged you to show empirical evidence of the apostacy, you were unable to. You can assert the idea of the apostacy all you want; however, there is no evidence for it. On the contrary, we have 2,000 years of the Catholic church.
 
zerinus said:
It is easy to misrepresent someone by quoting them out of context. Why didn’t you provide the links, so that people could know the context in which they were spoken? Some of these quotes must be very old, because there are one or two of them that I do not recollect.

zerinus
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Zerinus,

I know you know how to do this.

At the top of this page you will find the word Search. Open that. Then select Advanced Search. Select Show Posts. Type** apostate** in the “key word” area and Zerinus in the “user name” area. Read away. Then come back and tell me where I’ve quoted you out of context.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
OK, thank you! I wanted to be sure i was not misunderstanding you. Are you saying, then, that a person can have a personal conviction that the Bible is true, and an intense interest in reading the Bible, without even reading the Book of Mormon?
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Yes, I am saying that; with the added proviso that after reading the Book of Mormon, and obtaining a testimony of the Holy Ghost that it is true, that “personal conviction” and “intense interest in reading the Bible” will increase many fold.

zerinus
 
truthsilence said:
Zerinus,

I know you know how to do this.

At the top of this page you will find the word Search. Open that. Then select Advanced Search. Select Show Posts. Type** apostate** in the “key word” area and Zerinus in the “user name” area. Read away. Then come back and tell me where I’ve quoted you out of context.
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I think it was your job to do that, not me, since you are the one who searched out the quotes.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Yes, I am saying that; with the added proviso that after reading the Book of Mormon, and obtaining a testimony of the Holy Ghost that it is true, that “personal conviction” and “intense interest in reading the Bible” will increase many fold.

zerinus
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And the exact opposite happened for me. I love reading the Bible now, whereas before, (when I was LDS), whenever I’d read it I felt God trying to tell me one thing, and my religion was teaching me something entirely different.

The testimony of the BOM never happened for me. But I have an immense personal conviction of the Bible and an intense interest in reading it. And now my religion is teaching me the same things I’m reading in the Bible. Thanks be to God.
 
zerinus said:
I think it was your job to do that, not me, since you are the one who searched out the quotes.

zerinus
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Zerinus, Oh brother. If you want me to pull up every thread with all of your quotes I will do that and post them all tomorrow, as I have dinner guests on the way. For some reason the link I posted earlier isn’t working, so I’ll post it again here. If this doesn’t work, I’ll post them all for you individually, tomorrow. I don’t believe it’ll make any difference though. Unless…Do you actually believe you never said those things? I’m getting worried for you.

forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=1231068&pp=50
 
truthsilence said:
Zerinus, Oh brother. If you want me to pull up every thread with all of your quotes I will do that and post them all tomorrow, as I have dinner guests on the way. For some reason the link I posted earlier isn’t working, so I’ll post it again here. If this doesn’t work, I’ll post them all for you individually, tomorrow. I don’t believe it’ll make any difference though. Unless…Do you actually believe you never said those things? I’m getting worried for you.

forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=1231068&pp=50
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When I quote from people, I always give a link as to where they came from. That is the honest way of quoting from people.

zerinus
 
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