Did Judas betray Jesus?

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If Jesus knew in advance that Judas would betray Him then did not Jesus take away free choice from Judas? Was Judas set up?

Food for thought.:hmmm:

I allways encourage Christians to pray for Judas. He felt so bad that he hung (or gutted - who knows??:confused: ) himself. Judas knew Jesus was the Saviour and still did not make it to heaven. This alone proves that "“f"aith in Jesus Christ as your personnal Lord and Saviour” is not enough to be ‘SAVED!’😉

More food for thought.:hmmm:
 
No, Judas wasn’t set up. It is easy to get wrapped up in our earthly frame of raference and struggle trying to drag God’s infinite knowledge into our way of experiencing things within time.Judas felt bad alright; but I don’t think he hanged himself because he felt bad – I think he experienced a total loss of Hope and then the resulting despair; very serious sins. As discussed above, he could have turned to God at this crucial time, but instead he chose to turn completely away – leading to the ultimate rejection of God and his creation that suicide, in a mentally healthy person, is.

What I think anyway, and no I don’t know if he went crazy and yes I think it would matter.
 
“If Jesus knew in advance that Judas would betray Him then did not Jesus take away free choice from Judas? Was Judas set up?”

You might be confusing omnicience=knowing it all, with predestination.

As God Jesus knew Judas would betray Him. That does not mean Jesus predestined Judas to betray him, right?

Antonio :hmmm:
 
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mlchance:
Quite right. And there is probably a really important lesson therein for all of us.

😉

– Mark L. Chance.
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And that’s precisely why we venerate one as a saint and the other we reject as a traitor.

Antonio 🙂
 
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larryo:
There is no evidence whatsoever of any plan between Jesus and Judas, except in the not so fertile imagination of those who would diminish Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. When these types of idiots, like those on the Jesus Seminar, make unwarranted claims, the burden should be on them to prove their case. The same goes for the *DaVinci Code *and other similar fairy tales.
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Not to deviate from the subject, but today I bought “*De Da Vinci Hoax: Exposing the Errors in the Da Vinci Code” *by Carl E. Olson and Sandra Miesel.

OK, let’s get back to “Did Jesus Betray Judas?”

Antonio 🙂
 
Antonio B:
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But there is quite a difference between the two. One DID NOT repent from his sin, the other did and became the head of the Apostolic College.

Antonio 😃
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Yes:clapping: You could put that in another way by saying one understood God’s unconditional love and forgiveness and the other didn’t.
 
All 12 disicples betrayed Jesus in a sense, they all abandoned him after he was arrested. They all had claimed to believe in Jesus no more than a few hours before this & some even claimed that they’d die with him. The all ran away like cowards.

Judas gave in to temptation for whatever reason & betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He told the temple guards to arrest the one he kissed, which I find a bit weird because Jesus had just been preaching in the Temple for the past week, so it’s strange that Judas would have to point him out, but it all played well. Image been falsely accussed & handed over to be condemned by one of your own friends, someone you cared for, who lived with you & stood by your side at some of your most private of moments.

Peter “denied” knowing Jesus 3 times that night after he had mustered the courage to follow into the courtyard of the place where Jesus was being questioned by the Sanhedrin. There is a church legend that Peter, after hearing the cock crow & remembering what Jesus had told him at the Last Supper, he ran home & cried uncontrolably & with such remorse that the tears he cried tore into his flesh & left his face scared, permanant tears marks down his cheeks.

All but John the beloveds were there at the crucifixion, although Mark put himself in his Gospel as being present at the garden of Gethsemane. He said that a disicple in white was caught by the gaurds but escaped & ran away naked.

Judas betrayed Jesus, then felt guilty for waht he did & returned the 30 pieces of silver, but the Jewish priests wouldn’t touch it, it was blood money. Judas chose to betray Jesus & then chose to commit suicide, either by hanging himself our cutting himself open, there are to different versions of his death in the scriptures.
Judas had the free will to give in to temptation or not, he chose to give in. Whether he truly repented or not, only he & God know, but he allowed despair to seal his fate.

FYI: Judas was the only disciple that was not a Galilean, he was from the town of Iscariot & it’s been said that he was also a tax collector like Levi (Matthew).
 
Judas most certainly betrayed our Lord. That was his role in the master plan of Salvation. How that affects free will I’ve never quite understood. It’s the same with the Blessed Virgin – she had free will and could have refused God’s plan for her, but was in fact conceived without sin in order to be the Mother of His Son.

However, I have to say that in my heart of hearts, I’m not sure Judas is in Hell. His suicide is the ultimate act of regret in my mind. Wouldn’t God’s forgiveness extend to him?
 
The role of Judas is something that I would like to see examined more by Biblical scholars. I think he is such a deep character with significance far beyong that whcih has been analyzed to date.

Jesus said he betrayed him, so I think the simeple answer is yes. He betrayed him. But then did Jesus have to die the way he did for human to be redeemed? There seems to be some controversy among this form theologians.

Jesus kept saying that his hour had not yet come in John, until it came. Would it have come if Judas did not betray him? I believe that Jesus must have been able to disecern the souls of those he chose to follow him. What did he see in Judas? What is his significance? Is there a legacy he offers aside from the betray that set in motion the crucifixion? I think it was Patrick Madrid who said that perhaps Judas was chosen as an apostle so that people would known that there can always be fallen preists or religious leaders, and that human weeknesses in no way undermine the message of the Church and the Church’s role in salvation.

Did Judas believe that Jesus would really allow homself to be killed or that harm woudl come to him if he were handed over? He knew the Pharisees’ intentions were death, but at the same time he saw so many miracles performed by Jesus, that it is difficult to know if Judas believed that Jesus would not have saved himself. amybe he thought no harm would come to him by being handed over; that God would have intervened to save Jesus form harm.

Judas seemed to experience either great fear or great regret over his actions. Maybe a combination of both. I don’t understand why a man who spent so much time with Jesus, when Jesus preached endlessly about forgiveness, had so little hope in the message of forgiveness that he took his own life. Who knows? He could have begged God for forgiveness before he killed himself.
 
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Malachi4U:
Judas knew Jesus was the Saviour and still did not make it to heaven. This alone proves that "“f"aith in Jesus Christ as your personnal Lord and Saviour” is not enough to be ‘SAVED!’😉

More food for thought.:hmmm:
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That’s excellent food for thought. I will have to remember that!!!
 
**Joe Kelley [/quote said:
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                ***Matthew 26:24** The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born." It would seem rather harsh of Jesus to say this of someone who was carrying out His orders.*
There was something about this scriptural quote that I couldn’t place my finger on. Then it occured to me. Jesus speaks of his roll in the prophecy making reference to it, but you will note he doesn’t state Judas’s reference …
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      .... but woe to the man by whom, **as it is written of him**, the Son of man is betrayed, It would be better....
The betrayer is also a planned member of the cast.

So then in entirety and in consideration of the prophecy we have…

The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom, as it is written of him, the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born."
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YinYangMom:
That really does seem to spell things out, doesn’t it?
But the free will thing then creeps in…what if Judas had chosen not to betray Jesus???
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It’s easier to press the view in the positive. Eliminate Judas from the picture by agreeing to everyone’s desire that Judas make the right choice, then continue with the redemption scene that must occur. We are faced with a paradoxial brick wall. The problem of a righteous Judas(or righteous anyone-potential-betrayer) becomes clearer this way.
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YinYangMom:
Why warn him so harshly if it carried with it the possibility of changing Judas’ mind?
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Indeed!. At the last supper telling someone to “do what you have to do” is a sign of resignation. However a plead for one’s life would include anywhere from the mild detached warning “I wouldn’t do that if I were you” to the extreme salvific “please don’t do it!!!”.

A review is required here. Judas planned this all along. Make no mistake about it, he did accept money for betraying his master. Judas should have requested clarity and approval, but his plan was to put Jesus on the spot so he would call his angels to save the Jews under oppression. The question is to the separate incidences and the role of a betrayer.

Yes, the rest of your post makes good points.

It almost seems an obligation to role play good guy, bad guy as Christians. But I have always had problems doing so. Perhaps I feel even that is unChristian. Even the negation of him as fanned the fuel of hatred to satans delight. The Nazis used this reason on many occasions to persecute the Jews, and even in my childhood the children were cruel at times…

We can pray for him like anyone else, and live in faith one day it will all come clear. But we must remember he did sacrificed because we are Judases in our own way.

Andy
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  1. The Church in the last century was narrow minded about suicides, I think, denying them burial in the church.
  2. The church now is conciliatory and again from a quick comment I heard someplace, will bury the suicide with rites and leave the spiritual disposition to God.
  3. We probably all can concede that God can forgive any sin, except the sin against the Holy Spirit.
  4. I guess the far-out idea is that Judas was complying with Jesus’ plan to have Him snared, and maybe Judas took revenge on himself out of deep guilt for having been the one who had to do it. Maybe he literally couldn’t live with himself.
  5. If you subscribe to the conspiracy of Judas and Jesus, then you’d have to assert that Jesus would have told Judas not to worry, that He would rise in three days.
  6. Some skeptics say that Jesus did not really die on the cross, but revived later from some drug that helped Him endure the suffering. Whatever else it says, Judas’ death seems to confirm that Jesus really died and Judas really got bummed out about it.
  7. The two accounts of Judas’ death can be pencil-whipped to some extent. Perhaps he was hung and then or simultaneously eviscerated. Hangings often did not produce instant death, but sometimes a delayed death due to asphixiation, during which the evisceratioin could have occurred.
 
I heard that the church never explicitly reveals who went to hell, but would Judas be the exception? I don’t see any other way it would have been better for him not to have ever been born.
 
Judas is not an exception, but the Church does take the Lord’s words very seriously. We can’t say for certain that Judas is in Hell, but it’s hard to imagine another outcome given his actions and Jesus’ words.
 
I see… it’s like we have pretty good evidence for being sure of it, but there’s just no reason for the church to define it infallibly… or for us to even HAVE to know for that matter.
 
exoflare: Pretty much. The Church always holds out hope for the departed, that they have found conversion before their deaths; it’s uncharitable to do otherwise. On the other hand, the Church hasn’t come up with a better interpretation of “better that he not have been born”. That is some very, very heavy stuff.

Incidently, for those who use his suicide as a sign that he is in Hell, it’s important to remember that many people who attempt suicide have a complete change of heart in the last few seconds before their deaths. Those that are lucky enough to survive often have a profound change in their lives and spirituality. We can not rule out that a person can make a complete, remorseful conversion in those last few seconds, however we don’t proclaim it as a likelyhood given the state of their soul at the time they make the attempt. It’s really the “better that he had not been born” thing that is a sticking point with Judas.

I sure hope he repented, after all he wasn’t just any old disciple, he was a close personal friend of Jesus in a very literal way. I don’t know what demons took hold of his heart, but the suffering in his soul even before his death must have been tremendous. I truly appreciated the portrayal of Judas in “The Passion of the Christ” for this very reason. He was not some wicked, conspiritorial madman, but a truly wounded human being, like you and me, who embraced his fall rather than the redemption that literally looked him right in the eyes. Humbling to say the least.
 
The answer is yes,he did.Our Lord called it betrayal.Although Judas repented,and an felt sorry for it,but still he betrayed Jesus.
 
Judas did have free will. As has already been said by others Jesus knew Judas was the betrayer, He even asked Judas not to do it, but then told him to go ahead and do it. Jesus knew Judas would not change his mind. But, think on this, Judas could have been forgiven, all he had to do was ask for it. If he had he would have been one of the greatest forgiveness stories in the New Testament. Instead he hung himself and became one of the most notorious tragedies and villians of all time.
 
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