Did Luther claim for himself that infallibility, which he would not allow to the Church of Christ?

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rcwitness said:
But the Bishop of Rome has not required anything of you, as a separated brother, which you reject that puts you into serious danger, right? Mormons and Jehova Witness may be another story.
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Not completely sure I am understanding your reply above.
 
Wannano said:
Not completely sure I am understanding your reply above.
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The Catechism recognizes non-Catholic Christians as able to attain the gift of salvation through Faith and Baptism. This is approved Teaching of the Pope.
 
rcwitness said:
The Catechism recognizes non-Catholic Christians as able to attain the gift of salvation through Faith and Baptism. This is approved Teaching of the Pope.
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Oh, now I get it. I guess I am still invincibly ignorant! Maybe CAF will keep me in the ignorant.

Actually I see all denominations (sorry, including yours) as human institutions but the universal catholic church initiated by Jesus as a divine institution.
 
Wannano said:
Oh, now I get it. I guess I am still invincibly ignorant! Maybe CAF will keep me in the ignorant.
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I’m sure you are much less ignorant than your average Catholic
Actually I see all denominations (sorry, including yours) as human institutions but the universal catholic church initiated by Jesus as a divine institution.
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Really? That’s a profound statement for you to make!
 
Wannano said:
Actually I see all denominations (sorry, including yours) as human institutions but the universal catholic church initiated by Jesus as a divine institution.
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Could you be wrong about the Catholic Church, and it be actually the universal Church you mention? Or did you make an infallible statement?
 
Wannano said:
Now I don’t get to be profound anymore?:crying:
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Well, u can’t b profound and ignorant at the same time. 😃

We would say, the Universal Church is constituted in Peter and his successors.
 
Wannano said:
Actually I see all denominations (sorry, including yours) as human institutions but the universal catholic church initiated by Jesus as a divine institution.
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Hi Wan

Are tree trunks different from branches?
 
Wannano said:
The question you were responding to was whether or not a persons salvation is dependent on his subjection to the Roman Pontiff. I took it to mean that I as a non-Catholic not in submission to the Pope would not have salvation from God because Jesus instructed us to be subject to all human institutions.
N
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rcwitness said:
The Catechism recognizes non-Catholic Christians as able to attain the gift of salvation through Faith and Baptism. This is approved Teaching of the Pope.
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👍

Also, Wannano, if you’re referring to Unam Sanctum (1302) the short answer is: we don’t know whether it was an ex cathedra statement, and we also don’t know what the correct interpretation of it is.
 
Wannano said:
Oh, now I get it. I guess I am still invincibly ignorant! Maybe CAF will keep me in the ignorant.

Actually I see all denominations (sorry, including yours) as human institutions but the universal catholic church initiated by Jesus as a divine institution.
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And the next question is: did Jesus establish any means to maintain orthodoxy and unity within that universal catholic church, or does Jesus not care about those things?

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
And the next question is: did Jesus establish any means to maintain orthodoxy and unity within that universal catholic church, or does Jesus not care about those things?

Edwin
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It doesn’t sound quite right to say He doesn’t care about those things however it seems Jesus’ emphasis was relational. He said “follow me” not “follow this new religion I am starting.” To believe that a series of statements about a person are true is quite different from believing in the person. To believe in Christ leads to a transformed life. To place our faith in orthodoxy and doctrine leads to an emphasis on correct belief and on believing the right things.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Right, so if a tree trunk could speak, he probably wouldn’t appreciate being referred to as a branch. The common denominator can not be a denomination.
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Jesus was quite clear, “I am the Vine, you are the branches”…
 
Wannano said:
It doesn’t sound quite right to say He doesn’t care about those things however it seems Jesus’ emphasis was relational. He said “follow me” not “follow this new religion I am starting.”
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Yes, He did. And that is nothing to disagree about. 👍 He also set up “leaders” “rulers” on whom their predecessors laid their hands on.
2 Timothy 1
Hence I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands
Why did He say “follow Me” and then give us leaders? And why does Paul reference Laying On Hands to Timothy?
To believe that a series of statements about a person are true is quite different from believing in the person. To believe in Christ leads to a transformed life. To place our faith in orthodoxy and doctrine leads to an emphasis on correct belief and on believing the right things.
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I will take your point, and agree that a “transformed life” or a “new life” or “conversion” is crucial and the outcome of believing on Him.
 
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