did Mary have fallen human nature?

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mercygate:
Although the sentence on Job’s sin is time-limited, the whole book is about his righteousness. Sandusky, you know me well enough by now to know that I am not doing any flim-flam here.
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I’m certain that you believe that Job was righteous and sinless, but he wasn’t.**Romans 11:32

For God has shut up all in disobedience SO THAT He may show mercy
to all.

Galatians 3:22

But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, SO THAT the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.**In both verses, SO THAT, are Gk hina, or purpose clauses.

What need of mercy and faith if no sin is present?

Furthermore, God says that David is righteous, and a man after God’s own heart; does that mean that David was sinless?

Of course, not; David was an adulterer, and a pre-meditating murderer. 🤷
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mercygate:
and please do not join EmeraldIsle’s fruitless drone on the word “all.” You are WAY beyond that
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Beyond what? The truth of the Scriptures? No, I’m not, and I agree with emeraldisle.**Romans 3:10-12

as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one;

There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God;

All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”**I believe that absolutely. That’s why grace is necessary, and God manifests His grace in this:**John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless…**Unless what?

And that is because no one seeks for God.

And that is because, all have sinned, and are (continuously) falling short of the Glory of God." Amen.
 
bilop said:
I said “I imagine” because I hadn’t done the research. But, here you go, from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Mary.

Mary was free from original sin, and committed no actual sins, by special privelege of God.

Be careful with “all have sinned”, Jesus was fully human, and never sinned.

God Bless
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When there is question of sin, Mary must always be excepted. [81] Mary’s complete exemption from actual sin is confirmed by the Council of Trent (Session VI, Canon 23): “If any one say that man once justified can during his whole life avoid all sins, even venial ones, as the Church holds that the Blessed Virgin did by special privilege of God, let him be anathema.” Theologians assert that Mary was impeccable, not by the essential perfection of her nature, but by a special Divine privilege. Moreover, the Fathers, at least since the fifth century, almost unanimously maintain that the Blessed Virgin never experienced the motions of concupiscence.

Mary was free from original sin, and committed no actual sins, by special privelege of God.

Be careful with “all have sinned”, Jesus was fully human, and never sinned.

God Bless

THATS a good answer for EmeraldIsle, but I am afraid these " bible only types" just dont get it. Intellectual conversion is rare. It really takes the holy Spirit to give you the grace to want the truth… and then with the help of the Holy Spirit , you can see thru the cobwebs of the American Protestant fixation and the way they read a translation with tinted glasses. It says right here… blah, blah, blah. The jehovah witnesses do the same thing. But I think its really amazing that so many Protestant ministers have come to the Catholic Church because of the Coming Home Network and CHNET.; and all the great Apologists out there in cyberspace.
 
👍 NAH.! It was fitting that Mary was sinless from her conception to her Dormition. The Church has proclaimed it so its true.
I don’t trust Reformed Theology. Too many flaws in sola scriptura.
 
To my best understanding the book of Job was an anchent story to help explain suffering of the just. It’s a didactic book.
 
Seagirt said:
👍 NAH.! It was fitting that Mary was sinless from her conception to her Dormition. The Church has proclaimed it so its true.
I don’t trust Reformed Theology. Too many flaws in sola scriptura.
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Correct; the church teaches that it was fitting, and that it was not necessary.

Your Tradition, IMHO, keeps you from the truth. 🙂
 
Seagirt said:
Mary was free from original sin, and committed no actual sins, by special privelege of God.
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your statement is according to the Catholic Churches tradition and not according to what God says in His written word.
Be careful with “all have sinned”, Jesus was fully human, and never sinned.
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According to what God says in His written word, the Lord Jesus is fully God and fully Man and He is sinless.

According to what God says in His written word the rest of humanity including Mary is fully human and all sinners.

.
 
Wow, look, Sandusky has changed his signature.

I guess that jab provoked a change?
 
emeraldisle said:
According to what God says in His written word the rest of humanity including Mary is fully human and all sinners.
.
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Not according to this scripture:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God.
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Seagirt said:
NAH.! It was fitting that Mary was sinless from her conception to her Dormition. The Church has proclaimed it so its true.
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The Lord Jesus humbled Himself to come into a sinful world, to be born of a virgin who was a sinner, to live amongst sinners, to be crucified naked on a cross for sinners.

.
 
Peter_Da_Rock said:
Not according to this scripture:
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What Paul is doing with “polloi” is employing parallelism; and so, “the many” made sinners, and “the many” (who) will be made righteous, are direct references to “the elect.”

Each time in that verse, “polloi” uses the definite Greek article.

IOW, they are a specific “many,” or “the many,” better known as “the elect.” 🙂
 
What Paul is doing with “polloi” is employing parallelism; and so, “the many” made sinners, and “the many” (who) will be made righteous, are direct references to “the elect.”
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Wrong Sandusky. Care to try agian?
 
The dialogue of the deaf continues…
sandusky said:
Yes; she was as human as any other human is human.
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So, since Mary, according to you, had a sinful human nature. Then Jesus, since He inherited that human nature from Mary, must necessarily have been passed on that sinful nature too.

That is the logic of these arguments, they make Jesus a sinner in need of redemption. And of course we know that cannot be so.
 
Mat 2:3 And king Herod hearing this, was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
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Every single person was troubled? Even infants? Even the retarded? Even those diseased with Senility?
 
emeraldisle said:
your statement is according to the Catholic Churches tradition and not according to what God says in His written word.

According to what God says in His written word, the Lord Jesus is fully God and fully Man and He is sinless.

According to what God says in His written word the rest of humanity including Mary is fully human and all sinners.

.
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Nowhere does Scripture say that Jesus is “fully God and fully man.” Scripture tells us the Jesus is “man” and it intimates strongly that he is God – with the Resurrection as the demonstration. But nowhere in Scripture can iit be demonstrated that Jesus is “Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting” – that is a formulation of the Creed. Scripture supports it but does not declare it. In order to believe that Jesus is “fully God and fully man”, you need the Church.
 
Mat 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem and all Judea, and all the country about Jordan:
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Every single Person of Judea went out to him? Even the skeptical Pharisees and Sadducees? Even the Romans that were occupying Judea?
 
Axion said:
The dialogue of the deaf continues…

So, since Mary, according to you, had a sinful human nature. Then Jesus, since He inherited that human nature from Mary, must necessarily have been passed on that sinful nature too.

That is the logic of these arguments, they make Jesus a sinner in need of redemption. And of course we know that cannot be so.
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Your church teaches that is fitting that Mary be sinlessly conceived, but not necessary.

If it were necessary, than Mary’s lineage back to Eve would have to have been sinless as well, otherwise, as you say, Mary inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, who inherited a sinful nature from her mother, and on, and on, and on.
 
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