did Mary have fallen human nature?

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If Mary was conceived without sin did she still bare the effects of original sin?
 
bilop said:
I would imagine not; that is why she was able to remain sinless unto death.

God Bless
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So is God’s Truth now based upon mans “imaginations”?

You said, “that is why she was able to remain sinless unto death”.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

Yes Mary did have a fallen human nature because she was a sinner.

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emeraldisle said:
So is God’s Truth now based upon mans “imaginations”?

You said, “that is why she was able to remain sinless unto death”.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

Yes Mary did have a fallen human nature because she was a sinner.
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I said “I imagine” because I hadn’t done the research. But, here you go, from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Mary.
When there is question of sin, Mary must always be excepted. [81] Mary’s complete exemption from actual sin is confirmed by the Council of Trent (Session VI, Canon 23): “If any one say that man once justified can during his whole life avoid all sins, even venial ones, as the Church holds that the Blessed Virgin did by special privilege of God, let him be anathema.” Theologians assert that Mary was impeccable, not by the essential perfection of her nature, but by a special Divine privilege. Moreover, the Fathers, at least since the fifth century, almost unanimously maintain that the Blessed Virgin never experienced the motions of concupiscence.
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Mary was free from original sin, and committed no actual sins, by special privelege of God.

Be careful with “all have sinned”, Jesus was fully human, and never sinned.

God Bless
 
emeraldisle said:
So is God’s Truth now based upon mans “imaginations”?

You said, “that is why she was able to remain sinless unto death”.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

Yes Mary did have a fallen human nature because she was a sinner.

.
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So as it turns out, you were the one with the imaginations.😛
 
As Catholics we believe that Mary was concieved without the stain of original sin and we are unsure whether or not she did in fact “die”. (As death is a consequence of original sin) I believe as I was taught that she was assumed into Heaven body and soul. I do not believe she had a fallen human nature as we do.
 
bilop said:
Mary was free from original sin, and committed no actual sins, by special privelege of God.

God Bless
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“By special privilege of God”, why didn’t God give us all this “special privilege”, then He wouldn’t have had to send His Son to suffer and die a terrible death on the cross.
Be careful with “all have sinned”, Jesus was fully human, and never sinned.
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And we know that Jesus never sinned because God tells us so in His written word.

For even hereunto were you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1Peter 2:21-22

but God doesn’t tell in His written word that Mary was sinless in fact He says the following.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

.
 
st_marys_girl said:
As Catholics we believe that Mary was concieved without the stain of original sin and we are unsure whether or not she did in fact “die”. (As death is a consequence of original sin) I believe as I was taught that she was assumed into Heaven body and soul. I do not believe she had a fallen human nature as we do.
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You stated the following “As Catholics we believe”, “we are unsure”, do you not think it would be much better to find out what God says about these matters?

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emeraldisle said:
“By special privilege of God”, why didn’t God give us all this “special privilege”, then He wouldn’t have had to send His Son to suffer and die a terrible death on the cross.

And we know that Jesus never sinned because God tells us so in His written word.

For even hereunto were you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1Peter 2:21-22

but God doesn’t tell in His written word that Mary was sinless in fact He says the following.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

.
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But yet, God does tell us through His Church. Plus, there are many references in the Bible that speak of His Blessed Mother, all the way from Genesis to the last book, however, some don’t listen to the Church as they ought and so they miss these.
 
st_marys_girl said:
As Catholics we believe that Mary was concieved without the stain of original sin and we are unsure whether or not she did in fact “die”. (As death is a consequence of original sin) I believe as I was taught that she was assumed into Heaven body and soul. I do not believe she had a fallen human nature as we do.
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Just to add some clarification, death is indeed a consequence of The Fall, but to die does not imply that the one who dies had a corrupted human nature and/or the effects of original sin. Jesus did, and did not.
 
emeraldisle said:
You stated the following “As Catholics we believe”, “we are unsure”, do you not think it would be much better to find out what God says about these matters?

.
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“He who hears you, hears me.” When we hear the Church we hear exactly what God says about these matters.
 
Let me explain some further for you…
Genesis 3.15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel .The Jews saw this passage as referring to the struggle between Christ and Satan, and so the Church see in “the woman” a prophetic foreshadowing of the Virgin Mary (Vatican II, Lumen gentium, # 55). If there is to be complete enmity between the woman and the serpent, then she never should have been in any way subject to him even briefly. This implies an Immaculate conception…

We can also reason from the text of Lk 1:28, in which the angel calls her “full of grace”. If we can validate the translation–we can, and will do so, shortly–then in this verse we can see even more strongly the complete enmity with the serpent–for God’s grace is complete opposed to Satan’s reign. But if Mary was “full of grace,” it seems that she must have been conceived immaculate…

The result was that about a century and a half before the definition of 1854, the whole Church believed the Immaculate Conception. Finally, in Ineffabilis Deus, in 1854, Pius IX defined this doctrine and added that Mary was conceived immaculate by anticipation of the merits of Christ. This is not strange, for to the eye of God, all time is present…
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya2.htm
 
allhers said:
But yet, God does tell us through His Church. Plus, there are many references in the Bible that speak of His Blessed Mother, all the way from Genesis to the last book, however, some don’t listen to the Church as they ought and so they miss these.
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Do you know that God says in the Bible that the Church is the body of Christ and that Christ is the head of the body, see 1 Corinthians 12:12-27.

Now the Lord Jesus the head of the body of Christ taught the Scriptures.

And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 22:27

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VociMike said:
“He who hears you, hears me.” When we hear the Church we hear exactly what God says about these matters.
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The problem I am having is that if the Church says something that is totally contradictory to the plain written language of the Scripture, it makes one wonder if it is actually the true Church, since God would not let it error. Does it not?
Theologians assert that Mary was impeccable, not by the essential perfection of her nature, but by a special Divine privilege. Moreover, the Fathers, at least since the fifth century, almost unanimously maintain that the Blessed Virgin never experienced the motions of concupiscence
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So, this is to say that we have no evidence that this was believed any time before the 5th century. This on it’s face makes it seem incredible that the Church would come up with such a thing. If something this important was not taught before the 5th century, how can it all of a sudden become true?
 
VociMike said:
Just to add some clarification, death is indeed a consequence of The Fall, but to die does not imply that the one who dies had a corrupted human nature and/or the effects of original sin. Jesus did, and did not.
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Jesus died as a sinless sacrifice for sin and He defeated death and rose again. However mans death is a result of sin.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

.
 
emeraldisle said:
Do you know that God says in the Bible that the Church is the body of Christ and that Christ is the head of the body, see 1 Corinthians 12:12-27.

Now the Lord Jesus the head of the body of Christ taught the Scriptures.

And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 22:27

.
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Yes, I know that, what is your point?
 
emeraldisle said:
Jesus died as a sinless sacrifice for sin and He defeated death and rose again. However mans death is a result of sin.
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Don’t deny the Incarnation in your quest to proclaim Mary a sinner. Jesus was fully man, without sin or corruption, and yet he died.
 
What about the words of Jesus in Lk 11:27-28 (cf. Mt. 12:46-50 and Mk 3:35)? A woman in the crowd exclaimed: “Blessed is the womb that bore you…” He replied: “Rather blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.”…

Even though Mary was full of grace at the start of her life, yet she could still grow, for, as it were, her capacity for grace could increase…
…
In general, a soul will grow in proportion to these things: (1) The greater the dignity of the person, the greater the merit In her case, the dignity of Mother of God is the highest possible for a creature. (2) The greater the work, the greater the merit: her cooperation in the redemption was the greatest work possible to a creature. (3) The greater the love, the greater the merit. Love of God means the attachment of our will to His. Her will adhered supremely, with no obstacle at all, so that even ordinary household duties, which she saw as the will of the Father for her, were supremely valuable.
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya2.htm
 
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