did Mary have fallen human nature?

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The problem I am having is that if the Church says something that is totally contradictory to the plain written language of the Scripture, it makes one wonder if it is actually the true Church, since God would not let it error. Does it not?
Such as what? What Catholic teaching have you decided is in contradiction to what you perceive to be the plain language of scripture?

Further, if the Catholic Church is not the true Church, then that “plain language” may not even be scripture. Maybe the Church got that wrong too. Then where you gonna go?
 
What about the words of Jesus in Lk 11:27-28 (cf. Mt. 12:46-50 and Mk 3:35)? A woman in the crowd exclaimed: “Blessed is the womb that bore you…” He replied: “Rather blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.”…
Blessed = Sinless???

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The Scriptures clearly tell us that Mary a human being was a sinner. The Scriptures do not tell us that Mary was sinless.

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Have you read anything that anyone besides yourself has posted or do you just have an agenda that you stick to no matter what is shown you?
 
Blessed = Sinless???

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The dignity of being Mother of God is a quasi infinite dignity, as we just saw from the words of Pius XI. Yet here, our Lord is teaching us that the holiness coming from hearing the word of God and keeping it is something greater still. Her holiness must indeed be great–so great that “none greater under God can be thought of, and no one but God can comprehend it.”

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya2.htm
 
We can also reason from the text of Lk 1:28, in which the angel calls her “full of grace”. If we can validate the translation–we can, and will do so, shortly–then in this verse we can see even more strongly the complete enmity with the serpent–for God’s grace is complete opposed to Satan’s reign. But if Mary was “full of grace,” it seems that she must have been conceived immaculate…
"Even a Catholic source such as Zerwick avoids the translation ‘full of grace,’ opting instead for the less theologically loaded praises ‘endowed with grace; dearly loved.’ The MNT task force translates it as ‘graciously favored by God,’ while noting that the Douay Rheims translation, ‘full of grace,’ is not literal and is gradually being replaced among Roman Catholic translators. The most recent standard Catholic translations the NAB and the JB, have followed suit in their renditions (NAB, ‘O highly favored daughter’; JB, ‘So highly favored’) [Eric Svendsen, Who Is My Mother? (New York: Calvary Press, 2001) p. 129].

aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2490

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It’s worth reading the book “Hail, Holy Queen” by Scott Hahn. 🙂
 
Such as what? What Catholic teaching have you decided is in contradiction to what you perceive to be the plain language of scripture?

Further, if the Catholic Church is not the true Church, then that “plain language” may not even be scripture. Maybe the Church got that wrong too. Then where you gonna go?
At first sight this teaching seems to have no basis in Scripture. But if we look more closely, we will see something quite obvious. First, at the Annunciation, she was asked to consent, in faith, to be the Mother of the Messiah. She knew this perfectly clearly, for as soon as the Archangel said, “He will reign over the house of Jacob forever,” she knew that only the Messiah could reign forever. So she knew it was the Messiah. Then there would begin to crowd into her thoughts all the ancient prophecies of the Messiah, especially Isaiah 53, of His dreadful sufferings and death. She was asked to consent to be the Mother of such a Messiah.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya3.htm
 
Have you read anything that anyone besides yourself has posted or do you just have an agenda that you stick to no matter what is shown you?
You asked “what is your point?”

I answered, The Scriptures clearly tell us that Mary a human being was a sinner. The Scriptures do not tell us that Mary was sinless.

My point is obvious!

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You asked “what is your point?”

I answered, The Scriptures clearly tell us that Mary a human being was a sinner. The Scriptures do not tell us that Mary was sinless.

My point is obvious!

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emeraldisle, do you know if the Scripture said that Adam and Eve were sinless at the beginning or this is silent?
 
"Even a Catholic source such as Zerwick avoids the translation ‘full of grace,’ opting instead for the less theologically loaded praises ‘endowed with grace; dearly loved.’ The MNT task force translates it as ‘graciously favored by God,’ while noting that the Douay Rheims translation, ‘full of grace,’ is not literal and is gradually being replaced among Roman Catholic translators. The most recent standard Catholic translations the NAB and the JB, have followed suit in their renditions (NAB, ‘O highly favored daughter’; JB, ‘So highly favored’) [Eric Svendsen, Who Is My Mother? (New York: Calvary Press, 2001) p. 129].

aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2490

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Do you think that is a good Catholic web site or something, sounds to me like all they are doing is making fun of a good Catholic man who was on Catholic Answers live.
 
You asked “what is your point?”

I answered, The Scriptures clearly tell us that Mary a human being was a sinner. The Scriptures do not tell us that Mary was sinless.

My point is obvious!

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Your point is that you obviously don’t know the truth at all.
 
emerald isle, here is something else that the site you posted said:
“One cannot accuse me of simply being cheered on by those that oppose Rome without actually checking out their materials. I don’t expect everyone do this, nor do I recommend it. At times, it can be very draining and depressing. There have been times, after listening to 3 or 4 hours of Catholic Answers, I long for the clarity and wisdom of the sacred Scriptures. I long to hear the depth and richness of the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ, that by faith in Him alone can I ever have peace with God. After listening to Roman Catholic apologists speculate on Mary, guardian angels, discuss what is, or is not a mortal sin or a venial sin, and what to do to be restored to right standing with God, I’m overwhelmed by the clarity and beauty of the Bible. In fact, after listening to Catholic Answers, I have an even greater appreciation for sola scriptura.”

It’s good that you came here for the truth instead, read what I posted for you and read what other’s said here, you are’t going to find the truth on
aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2490
which is the site you gave us. So, keep coming back here and we’ll fill you in on the parts you missed out on.👍
 
emeraldisle, do you know if the Scripture said that Adam and Eve were sinless at the beginning or this is silent?
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Gen 1:27

Is God sinless?

BTW do you know that God hasn’t “specifically” said in His written word that Daniel sinned, so do you believe Daniel was sinless?

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If Mary was conceived without sin did she still bare the effects of original sin?

**OS has innumerable effects - not just the ones that are neatly labelled in theological manuals (useful as labels are). If she was human, & not (say) a divine quality in human form, or perhaps a Platonic Idea, there is no way should could have escaped being affected by “the sin of the world”. Human beings are affected by other human beings, & she was a human being - therefore, she can’t have been unaffected by the effects of living among other human beings. **​

**I don’t know how insisting on the reality of the BVM’s historical & contingent humanity as a creature can be reconciled with the dogma of the IC - but if the IC is true, it will be big enough to allow her to be as genuinely human as any of us. **

If she is not really human, that destroys the Incarnation, & gives her the ultimacy, & thus the status, otherwise accorded to her Saviour-Son. “Marian angelism” has to be avoided - it allows the IC to be affirmed, but empties the affirmation of meaning because it empties the reality of her humanity of meaning. And how we avoid the Scylla of “Marian angelism”, & the Charybdis of emptying the IC of content as the price of affirming her human reality - maybe someone else can tell :o :confused: I’m sure there is a satisfying solution - the problem is in finding it 🙂
 
Such as what? What Catholic teaching have you decided is in contradiction to what you perceive to be the plain language of scripture?

Further, if the Catholic Church is not the true Church, then that “plain language” may not even be scripture. Maybe the Church got that wrong too. Then where you gonna go?
Are you kidding me? Please show me how this teaching is not contradictory to the plain language of the Scripture.

As far as the true Church, one must accept that there are many teachings, such as the one on Mary, that have come after the early Church gave us the Scripture. This teaching wasn’t known to have been circulated before the 5th century. So the question becomes, has the RCC remained faithful to the teachings of the Apostles or has it drifted. Basically, this is what Luther taught.
 
Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings’ daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father’s house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)

That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom, though it is present on earth in the Church, but a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ.

ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp
 
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Gen 1:27

Is God sinless?

BTW do you know that God hasn’t “specifically” said in His written word that Daniel sinned, so do you believe Daniel was sinless?

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This is to tell you that the word “all” does not always mean “all”. So, if Adam and Eve were sinless at the beginning, God can do all things…and He does just that with Blessed Virgin Mary.

This is also to tell you that you cannot find everything in the Scriptures. 😉 But all the time, you keep asking for where it says in the gospels and what not.
 
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