Did Mary have Salvation Assurance ? /// Do we?

[brb3]

We urge you also not to accept the grace of God in vain.
2 Corinthians 6, 1

Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what you have worked for, but may receive a full reward.
2 John 1, 8

Mary was further graced the moment she pronounced her fiat and conceived the holy Child in faith working through love. And grace was added upon grace when she visited her kinswoman Elizabeth so that she could charitably take care of her. Mary would have regressed in her pilgrimage of faith if she ignored Elizabeth’s needs and the requirement of her own presence for a lengthy period of time. The grace she had received to be the mother of our Lord would have been in vain if she had resisted the prompting of the Holy Spirit to look after her relative and chose to boast in the special favour God granted her and just leave. Elizabeth’s interest was of more importance to her than her own (Phil 2:4). In fact, looking to Elizabeth’s interest meant hearing the word of God and keeping it. Our own personal interest in being saved hangs in the balance of looking to the personal interests of others. Indeed, James warns us that to avoid doing a good work in charity and grace when the opportunity arises is a sin (4:17), and so a fall from grace, without which we cannot be saved. More was expected of Mary than her consent to be the mother of Jesus to even confirm her call and election to the divine motherhood. And her charity as well as her faith were causative of her salvation - not the result of it - as long as she grew in perfection and did not bury the talent our Lord had given her for the purpose of accumulating sufficient interest. Mary understood she had to work all the more harder to materialize her salvation once she was predestined to the grace she had received. Grace enabled her to grow in holiness, but it was also given her with the divine expectation that she should in collaboration with her free will. God’s expectations of us that we observe and act upon his will would be redundant if he coerced us - indeed programmed us - to act for his good pleasure just to demonstrate to the world and remind us what it means to be saved.

And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
2 Corinthians 9, 8

PAX

Another excellent post…and this one on how Mary enjoyed SA, THE CATHOLIC WAY ! Mary didn’t just rest on her pronounced, fully blessed, status. You point out the multitude of ways Mary ‘kept on keeping on’, to serve Christ & Mankind. Mary was DETERMINED to please her Son & FATHER. Although scripture doesn’t fully inform, we can be sure she was constantly in prayer, just as her Son. We can also be sure her prayers were that she would not ever fail to measure up to her ‘HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST’. So, we can confidently know she enjoyed SA …by cooperating with all graces, and asking the Father & Son, her Lord… to always support & enable her to PERSEVERE to her LAST DAY.

Paul talks to this matter in that apropos scripture you cite above. Paul tells us in no uncertain words that God can & will provide for All our needs at All times, ( ALL includes FINAL SALVATION), IF we pray (without ceasing) in all things, including as did Mary …Lord, never let me fall back, keep me always at your side, obedient, humble, filled with awe, serving and using the gifts/talents u provide, living the Beatitudes, and daily saying as Mary & Peter " YES LORD, YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU" ,

and faithfully provide me the necessary graces to enable me to PERSEVERE, and not to lose/forfit my Kingdom reward.

 

[brb3]

Yes, of course.

Yes, we have trust, hope, and confidence in God. It is not He that fails to keep His word, but we, who can forsake Him.

2 Tim 2:11-13
If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him;
if we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful —
for he cannot deny himself.

As long as we are in these mortal bodies, the possibility exists that we may deny Him.

Catholicsm is far from the “name it, claim it” modern innovations toward heresy. Please do not try to hybridize the Holy Faith with such inventions that are misleading.

Yes, we Catholics shouldn’t stray from the accepted (traditional meanings) & take scripture OUT OF CONTEXT. Some Protestants use Name/Claim to support their Prosperity Gospel teachings. They are totally offbase/misguided !!!

Nevertheless, when we take the scriptures in context, as the Church teaches them, we can be sure Christ is ALWAYS FAITHFUL & TRUE … to that FULLER Truth the Universal Church teaches. And, under these Catholic Church constraints against TOO LIBERAL or LITERAL AN UNDERSTANDING, we can indeed confidently recognize and claim the promises in Scripture. Also, when our Lord knows we need encouragement & help against unbelief/little faith, …claiming a scripture as from the WORD, the LOGOS helps us to grow in faith to trust God, via his word. Always, a young Christian or unbeliever needs another Elder … to properly understand the intended meaning of scripture.

Now, regarding possibility we Christians might fall away. So true, …even one of Christ’s 12 did. But, 11 of 12 held true !! And, 11 of 11 ( 100 %) …of those who held his scarred hands and talked to the RISEN LORD. And, they received the COUNSELOR, the HS, who guided them and we into all truth. Once we are reborn of water AND SPIRIT, we Too, have encountered the RISEN CHRIST. We have received just as much LIGHT and INITIAL grace from Father as the Apostles received. Now, its our choice to cooperate with our high calling …and let Christ continue to grace us via all the many ways he can …(esp. prayer and the Eucharist), in which case, THROUGH THE CHURCH & Sacraments, we are protected/retained within the Flock, …our, we can withdraw and FALL FROM GRACE…if we neglect SO GREAT A SALVATION AND LORD.

 

[guanophore]

Yes, we Catholics shouldn’t stray from the accepted (traditional meanings) & take scripture OUT OF CONTEXT. Some Protestants use Name/Claim to support their Prosperity Gospel teachings. They are totally offbase/misguided !!!

Ok I am relieved to hear that!

For what it is worth, I do think that most Catholics fail to inherit their birthright with regard to the efficacy of grace, and the peace that comes from sure hope and confidence that we can experiene when we do abide in Him. Due to a lack of catechesis in this area, there are many confused and worried Catholics walking around, rather than full of faith, hope, and confidence that His grace is more than sufficient for all that we face every day.

The rejection of the “name it claim it” misguided notions does not mean that we have to reject the confident hope that is clearly taught in the Scriptures and the Catechism.

 

[Bookcat]

As to Mary – we know she is in Heaven (indeed assumed body and soul). As to what she knew on earth --such is not told us --though she would have had the certitude of hope …and she knew well Jesus her son and the Lord.

As to “do we?”

I seek to live looking forward to the Resurrection! In the Joy of Knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Rejoicing in already beginning to know true life in him.

(Now could I turn away from Christ before I die…rejecting in effect the life he gave me in Faith and Baptism (and all the other ways) and die in choice? --yes such is a possibility. May I remain living in Christ always!)

By the grace of God I intend to remain in Christ…a branch on his vine …to “abide in him” …to not be “cut off” (by my own choice)…(John 15:5-6, and Romans 11:22).

And if in this life I should unhappily commit a mortal sin…I intend to call out to the Good Shepherd and go to those whom he has given the authority to forgive me…to be forgiven and returned to life (John 20:22-23). I pray that I may always remain in him and thus leave this life remaining in life.

We walk by Faith not by sight (2 Cor 5:7)

and are saved in hope (see Romans 8:24)…and thus I have the great “certitude of hope”!

A real kind of assurance I have. A very real confidence. I do not though have “infallible” certitude. For example I do not know that I will in fact remain living in Christ and not betray him and die separated from him. And even now I could commit a mortal sin (Lord preserve me from this!). Indeed Jesus even said that not everyone who says to him “Lord Lord” will enter the kingdom of Heaven. (Matt 7:21)

But I have a great confidence in Christ my hope!

*I know in whom I have believed *(2 Tim 1:12)

My Faith and my hope and trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ! The Good Shepherd!

In him is* true life*.

Pope Benedict XVI:

Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour.

(From: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html)

 

[brb3]

Y

Ok I am relieved to hear that!

For what it is worth, I do think that most Catholics fail to inherit their birthright with regard to the efficacy of grace, and the peace that comes from sure hope and confidence that we can experiene when we do abide in Him. Due to a lack of catechesis in this area, there are many confused and worried Catholics walking around, rather than full of faith, hope, and confidence that His grace is more than sufficient for all that we face every day.

The rejection of the “name it claim it” misguided notions does not mean that we have to reject the confident hope that is clearly taught in the Scriptures and the Catechism.

You are a wise elder, whose critiques are always welcomed and heeded ! Having spent years in the Protestant camp, you are particularly knowledgeable about their strengths and weaknesses on Bible doctrine. We all have a few heretical ideas, that don’t fully conform to the fullest truth. We can recognize, from writings of ECF’s, that they got confused on certain points in doctrine. We all are a work in progress, each day we need to pray that our errors on the faith get revealed/identified to us … and corrected.
CAF is an especially good venue for us to ask our questions of the elders.
We Catholics & Protestants headed for the Tiber, salute you for your PERSEVERANCE & very capable ELDER / Mentor status.

 

[Good_Fella]

Mary didn’t just rest on her pronounced, fully blessed, status. You point out the multitude of ways Mary ‘kept on keeping on’, to serve Christ & Mankind. Mary was DETERMINED to please her Son & FATHER… we can be sure she was constantly in prayer, just as her Son. We can also be sure her prayers were that she would not ever fail to measure up to her ‘HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST’. So, we can confidently know she enjoyed SA …by cooperating with all graces, and asking the Father & Son, her Lord… to always support & enable her to PERSEVERE to her LAST DAY.

Paul talks to this matter in that apropos scripture you cite above. Paul tells us in no uncertain words that God can & will provide for All our needs at All times, ( ALL includes FINAL SALVATION), IF we pray (without ceasing) in all things, including as did Mary …Lord, never let me fall back, keep me always at your side, obedient, humble, filled with awe, serving and using the gifts/talents u provide, living the Beatitudes, and daily saying as Mary & Peter " YES LORD, YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU" ,

and faithfully provide me the necessary graces to enable me to PERSEVERE, and not to lose/forfit my Kingdom reward.

Absolutely!

Perhaps the first thing Jesus will say to us immediately after our death will be: “DO YOU LOVE ME?” at which moment our conscience will answer the question for us before we even either speak or remain silent forever. Let us indeed pray that the answer will boldly be “YES, LORD. YOU KNOW THAT I LOVE YOU,” so that those precious words spoken by Jesus in the Gospel may be addressed personally to us: *“COME, YOU WHO ARE BLESSED BY MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM THAT WAS PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.” *

I believe Jesus wasn’t only prompting Peter with his question for him to confirm for himself whether he did in fact love Jesus, and even then only for His sake, but was also tacitly reminding the apostle that in order for him to be a shepherd for his people, he must love them as well as his master. Jesus saw the love that kindled Peter’s reply, a love that was sure to spread to all God’s children, for the love Jesus had for Peter possessed his soul and wouldn’t let go. The apostle experienced being loved at such an immeasurable depth of being that he could not help but want to extend that same love he received from Jesus to others in union with the Lord. And so Jesus said: *“FEED MY SHEEP.” *Likewise, any one of us who claim to love Jesus must show he does by actually expressing our Lord’s love and extending it towards others by our good works in charity and grace, and by sharing that same love Jesus has for us with others as his stewards of grace. Not any of us can rightfully claim to love Jesus and be his disciple if we neglect or refuse to feed the hungry for their sake.

At the wedding feast in Cana, after Mary had solicited her Son with the words,* “THEY HAVE NO WINE,”* it appears to some people that Jesus was hesitant and sharply rebuked his mother for having approached him with her concern for the guests. Some people actually believe that Jesus was reluctant to comply when he asked his mother in reply: “WOMAN, HOW DOES YOUR CONCERN AFFECT ME?” * However, our Lord used a familiar Jewish expression (Hebraism) which in the original Greek text should read: ti emoi kai soi, literally “what to me and to you”. It denotes a very close relationship between the person who is asking the question and the one who is being asked. The expression is often used by someone to mean that he would not normally do what was asked of him if it were not for the respect he had for the other person and a personal interest they shared in common. Hence, Jesus’ expression can assume a declarative form which could read: “There is no need to ask any favour of me, since you are my mother. What concerns you concerns me.” Mary’s concern for the guests was just as much her Son’s concern, for they both knew that it was time for Jesus to begin his public ministry. The replenishment of wine was nothing more than an opportunity for the replenishment of something infinitely greater: grace. Mary expected nothing less than a miracle. She could have approached the chief steward if her main concern was the want of wine. But instead she went straight to her son before telling the chief steward: “DO WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU.” * We know what happened after that. Mary’s concern for all of us who hope to attend the wedding feast of the Lamb was that same loving concern Jesus has for us. Her love for us was His love extending outward to reach us through her person. What Mary said to Jesus at the outset of this narrative was a form of prayer that aroused our Lord to meet that love which his mother had been graced with to collaborate with his own love. Whenever we pray for a loved one, Jesus hears us not only because of the special love he has for us, but also because of our love for the other person. He wishes to unite his love with ours which is a reflection of his own love for us bestowed by him, just as he wishes that we unite our ability to love by divine grace with the love which he essentially is. Without having any love for others, we cannot possibly abide in God’s love and hope to find favour with God and be saved.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
1 John 4, 16-17

PAX

 

[brb3]

Absolutely!

Perhaps the first thing Jesus will say to us immediately after our death will be: “DO YOU LOVE ME?” at which moment our conscience will answer the question for us before we even either speak or remain silent forever. Let us indeed pray that the answer will boldly be “YES, LORD. YOU KNOW THAT I LOVE YOU,” so that those precious words spoken by Jesus in the Gospel may be addressed personally to us: *“COME, YOU WHO ARE BLESSED BY MY FATHER, INHERIT THE KINGDOM THAT WAS PREPARED FOR YOU FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.” *

I believe Jesus wasn’t only prompting Peter with his question for him to confirm for himself whether he did in fact love Jesus, and even then only for His sake, but was also tacitly reminding the apostle that in order for him to be a shepherd for his people, he must love them as well as his master. Jesus saw the love that kindled Peter’s reply, a love that was sure to spread to all God’s children, for the love Jesus had for Peter possessed his soul and wouldn’t let go. The apostle experienced being loved at such an immeasurable depth of being that he could not help but want to extend that same love he received from Jesus to others in union with the Lord. And so Jesus said: *“FEED MY SHEEP.” *Likewise, any one of us who claim to love Jesus must show he does by actually expressing our Lord’s love and extending it towards others by our good works in charity and grace, and by sharing that same love Jesus has for us with others as his stewards of grace. Not any of us can rightfully claim to love Jesus and be his disciple if we neglect or refuse to feed the hungry for their sake.

At the wedding feast in Cana, after Mary had solicited her Son with the words,* “THEY HAVE NO WINE,”* it appears to some people that Jesus was hesitant and sharply rebuked his mother for having approached him with her concern for the guests. Some people actually believe that Jesus was reluctant to comply when he asked his mother in reply: “WOMAN, HOW DOES YOUR CONCERN AFFECT ME?” * However, our Lord used a familiar Jewish expression (Hebraism) which in the original Greek text should read: ti emoi kai soi, literally “what to me and to you”. It denotes a very close relationship between the person who is asking the question and the one who is being asked. The expression is often used by someone to mean that he would not normally do what was asked of him if it were not for the respect he had for the other person and a personal interest they shared in common. Hence, Jesus’ expression can assume a declarative form which could read: “There is no need to ask any favour of me, since you are my mother. What concerns you concerns me.” Mary’s concern for the guests was just as much her Son’s concern, for they both knew that it was time for Jesus to begin his public ministry. The replenishment of wine was nothing more than an opportunity for the replenishment of something infinitely greater: grace. Mary expected nothing less than a miracle. She could have approached the chief steward if her main concern was the want of wine. But instead she went straight to her son before telling the chief steward: “DO WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU.” * We know what happened after that. Mary’s concern for all of us who hope to attend the wedding feast of the Lamb was that same loving concern Jesus has for us. Her love for us was His love extending outward to reach us through her person. What Mary said to Jesus at the outset of this narrative was a form of prayer that aroused our Lord to meet that love which his mother had been graced with to collaborate with his own love. Whenever we pray for a loved one, Jesus hears us not only because of the special love he has for us, but also because of our love for the other person. He wishes to unite his love with ours which is a reflection of his own love for us bestowed by him, just as he wishes that we unite our ability to love by divine grace with the love which he essentially is. Without having any love for others, we cannot possibly abide in God’s love and hope to find favour with God and be saved.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
1 John 4, 16-17

PAX

Right on, right on !!! Good Fella, u are a special child of God & Love scriptures…
If able, become a priest !

Now, that last quote from John. “Have (salvation) confidence on the day of judgment” …based upon / exhibited by, the Love we have for God & fellowman.

God is love, so if we are IN CHRISTOS, our lives will exhibit love. Thats why Paul warned the Church members that they had lost their FIRST LOVE, having fallen back into sin, and needed to repent and regain their ‘saved position’ In Christ.

 

[jcrichton]

Guanophore, jcrichton, tqualey, Good Fella, et al…

To all the FULLY GRACED CATHOLICS, who have been ‘washed clean’ in blood of Christ via Baptism, and Confirmed by receipt of Holy Spirit, and who have a love and zeal to their Lord, and who commune DAILY & FAITHFULLY with Him in prayer, praise, and deed, …via the H.S. counselor that bonds you to the Lord, just as Mary & the Apostles received from him -----
Now, if you pray daily for Perseverance, as Paul,Mary, and the Apostles did…will the Lord ever forsake u, or not grant u those MANY SALVATION /KINGDOM PROMISES, he made in scripture, given to the writers by divine inspiration ?..provided u continue in faith, receipt of Eucharist, and service … & promptly confess ALL sins to both God and man -----

would u not trust the Lord to grant u final salvation & have FULL ASSURANCE HE WOULD ?

…again… it is not God Who rejects or takes back Salvation or the Assurance of Salvation… it is man who, by personal choice, removes himself from God’s Hand and relinquishes Eternal Salvation… the best example that I can offer of this is St. Peter’s failure while he was Commanded by Jesus to walk on water… he asked, he was granted, he was kept saved from drowning… but in an instant he began to submerge and fearing for his life he called to Jesus! Do you believe that St. Peter had any power over nature? Do you believe that Jesus would have allowed him to drown?

St. Peter was safe (both physically above water and in no mortal danger) when he confided in Christ’s Power… and he was also out of mortal danger when he ceased confiding in Jesus… but… here’s the rub… Jesus waited for St. Peter to Call to Him for Assistance before He rescued him from what Peter believed was his impending demise!

Salvation is there, in Jesus, we need not worry about assurance or knowledge of “Eternal Salvation.” We need to confide in Jesus as our Eternal Salvation and as our Asurance that we will join Him in that Eternity!

Here’s the rub:

If you love me you will keep my commandments. (St. John 14:15)

…no assurance or Eternally Saved Command… rather the Command is to abide in Him:

3 You are clean already, by means of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I in you. As a branch cannot bear fruit all by itself, unless it remains part of the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, with me in him, bears fruit in plenty; for cut off from me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a branch – and withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and are burnt. (St. John 15:3-6)

Reliance on the knowledge of “Eternal Salvation” or the “Assurance of Salvation” can hinder the Believers’ fate as our attention can shift from Worshiping God to the minimalism of self assurance that we are fated to be… well… eternally saved!

…as St. Paul said, to Live is Christ… or if it so happens, to die in Christ: Salvation!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Jcrichton,

Not quite.

While it is true that many Protestant groups have found ways to disrespect the Mother of God - this is direct contradiction to their founders - those in the 16th Century who revolted from the Catholic Church. Luther, Calvin and Zwingli had devotions to the BVM. I think Henry VIII did, too - but, I am not sure about that. John Knox did not want any woman in charge of anythig - but, I am only guessing that this disress with females being in charge… and effectively putting limits on him (Queen Mary and Mary Queen of Scots) carried over to the BVM. So, early Protestantism was a mixed bag - but, in that mix were some who had a genuine devotion to Mary - and that should neither be minimized or neglected.

For the most part, today’s Protestant’s have drifted from the beliefs of those who initially revolted - except in one (and only one ) area: the Catholic Church is wrong.

It appears to be in the very nature of Protestantism to protest something - hence, 30,000+ groups, sects, denominations, assemblies, tabernacles, congretations, fellowships - all trying to be the ‘true’ church - and attacking their fellow protesters for falling short of this goal. The very forumla for chaos!

God bless

Hi, Tom!

I concur with you, Protestantism was not always as it is today… but I’ve yet to come across anyone (non-Catholic) who has a kind word for the Virgin Mary, let alone celebrate her!

While it is true that I do not know every Protestant personally, from the ones I’ve met the best I’ve gotten is: ‘why did Jesus called her woman?’ (the wedding at Cana) …it seems to them that Jesus, the One we are to emulate as Older Brother, thought very little of His Mother as He sought to relinquish her to “woman;” the inference being that He did not even dignify her as “Mom!”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[brb3]

Bookcat:
Good find Bookcat …on the Holy Father Benedict …talking of SA …using Sacred Scriptures to make the case !!!

Let us never concede the ‘highground’ to the Protestants…when Catholics are really the ones who understand SA, the way it was intended to be understood, by Christ & the Apostles, plus Mary !

 

[Good_Fella]

Now, that last quote from John. “Have (salvation) confidence on the day of judgment” …based upon / exhibited by, the Love we have for God & fellowman.

Yes, any right to the confidence we have of being saved depends on our being complete in Christ’s love, meaning that we be intrinsically righteous as our Lord was righteous in his humanity: pure in heart, loving, compassionate, merciful, understanding, kind, patient, forebearing towards others, forgiving, humble, and solicitous towards the needs and interests of others before our own; although we can never measure up to the absolute perfection of Christ’s love in his divinity. This is what justifies us before God and makes us worthy to inherit the eternal kingdom as co-heirs with Christ: being like Jesus. So as long as we are like Jesus was in his humanity, and our conscience approves, we have no cause to fear the wrath of God and can be assured of our salvation in faith. In the biblical passages which I cited, Jesus and John are speaking in the context of salvation. Many Protestants argue that they are referring to the allotment of heavenly rewards for the sheep who had already been saved and separated from the goats to be judged separately at the Great White Throne for the acquisition of their particular crowns based purely on their sanctification. But Jesus plainly says: “Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you by my Father.” On the final Day of Judgement, all the living and the dead will be judged impartially. Only those who by their mindfulness stand properly clothed in the love of Christ will be admitted into the wedding feast, the ones whose personal righteousness by the co-operative grace of God exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees and measures up to God’s merciful standard of perfection and justice. The people who are improperly attired in hate and indifference and do not partake in the divine life, because of their obstinate pride and selfishness - imperfect in love and incomplete in the love of Christ - will be barred and cast into the darkness of their very existence. Jesus and John have our final destination in mind, not what might follow after it has been finally determined.

Examine yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ is in you? – unless, indeed, you fail to meet the test. I hope you will find out that we have not failed.
2 Corinthians 13, 5-6

God is love, so if we are IN CHRISTOS, our lives will exhibit love. Thats why Paul warned the Church members that they had lost their FIRST LOVE, having fallen back into sin, and needed to repent and regain their ‘saved position’ In Christ.

Both Jesus and his disciple Paul speak in a similar vein.

“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.”
Revelation 2, 4-5

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
Galatians 4, 9

I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved by many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin, and debauchery in which they have indulged.
2 Corinthians 12, 21

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15, 1-2

PAX

 

[brb3]

Good Fella …

Again, you are right on point/target…as to the CORE ESSENCE, of someone who is fully graced and abiding IN CHRIST, ( that key term Paul uses over 100 X’s in his Epistles).

The early Christians were identified/ described as those who had an ‘abundance of love’ for others. Agape Love, which ONLY COMES from God, and flows from our Baptismal Confirmational enlightenment…it is nothing short of the transformation effect of HS upon someone. Its that quenticential, sine-qua-non indelible marking of the soul by God, when he rebirths us with his holy fire…that John the Baptizer prophesied ONLY Christ could perform.

New Christians have this new love from God, they have a glow on face, and a fire within. Its that gladness about having heard and accepted Christ as Lord. But, as scripture warns, except they put down strong roots and Grow, sin of world can recapture them, just as Paul saw happening and warned them of, in his Asia Minor Churches.

Because Paul saw it happening, he was constantly visiting and writing to the Churches to help them HOLD FIRM to that which they first received ( that FIRST AGAPE LOVE — for God & fellowman).

 

[QuickCat]

Yes, any right to the confidence we have of being saved depends on our being complete in Christ’s love, meaning that we be intrinsically righteous as our Lord was righteous in his humanity: pure in heart, loving, compassionate, merciful, understanding, kind, patient, forebearing towards others, forgiving, humble, and solicitous towards the needs and interests of others before our own; although we can never measure up to the absolute perfection of Christ’s love in his divinity. This is what justifies us before God and makes us worthy to inherit the eternal kingdom as co-heirs with Christ: being like Jesus. So as long as we are like Jesus was in his humanity, and our conscience approves, we have no cause to fear the wrath of God and can be assured of our salvation in faith. In the biblical passages which I cited, Jesus and John are speaking in the context of salvation. Many Protestants argue that they are referring to the allotment of heavenly rewards for the sheep who had already been saved and separated from the goats to be judged separately at the Great White Throne for the acquisition of their particular crowns based purely on their sanctification. But Jesus plainly says: “Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you by my Father.” On the final Day of Judgement, all the living and the dead will be judged impartially. Only those who by their mindfulness stand properly clothed in the love of Christ will be admitted into the wedding feast, the ones whose personal righteousness by the co-operative grace of God exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees and measures up to God’s merciful standard of perfection and justice. The people who are improperly attired in hate and indifference and do not partake in the divine life, because of their obstinate pride and selfishness - imperfect in love and incomplete in the love of Christ - will be barred and cast into the darkness of their very existence. Jesus and John have our final destination in mind, not what might follow after it has been finally determined.

Examine yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ is in you? – unless, indeed, you fail to meet the test. I hope you will find out that we have not failed.
2 Corinthians 13, 5-6

Both Jesus and his disciple Paul speak in a similar vein.

“But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.”
Revelation 2, 4-5

But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
Galatians 4, 9

I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved by many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin, and debauchery in which they have indulged.
2 Corinthians 12, 21

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15, 1-2

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If you are trying to gain heaven by your own righteousness, you’ll never make it. Jer. 17:9; Romans 3:10. You must have the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ imputed to you - 2 Cor. 5:21. BTW, the “in vain” that you quote from 1 Cor. 15:2 has to do with our Lord’s resurrection. Note verses 12-14. If the Lord Jesus Christ has not risen then our faith is in vain.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[brb3]

If you are trying to gain heaven by your own righteousness, you’ll never make it. Jer. 17:9; Romans 3:10. You must have the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ imputed to you - 2 Cor. 5:21. BTW, the “in vain” that you quote from 1 Cor. 15:2 has to do with our Lord’s resurrection. Note verses 12-14. If the Lord Jesus Christ has not risen then our faith is in vain.
Grace and Peace,
QC

I take u have experienced ‘imputed’ righteousness ? If so, will that earlier occasion of grace received … continue to cover your occasions back into sin ?

 

[jcrichton]

I take u have experienced ‘imputed’ righteousness ? If so, will that earlier occasion of grace received … continue to cover your occasions back into sin ?

…if I understand you correctly… would that not necessitate the “once saved” formula? …and could I not pre-request forgiveness for a not yet committed sin or sin in the confort that it has already been forgiven?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Good_Fella]

If you are trying to gain heaven by your own righteousness, you’ll never make it. Jer. 17:9; Romans 3:10. You must have the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ imputed to you - 2 Cor. 5:21. BTW, the “in vain” that you quote from 1 Cor. 15:2 has to do with our Lord’s resurrection. Note verses 12-14. If the Lord Jesus Christ has not risen then our faith is in vain.
Grace and Peace,
QC

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, St. Paul is explicitly clear, that unless we hold firmly to the message of the Gospel, we have believed in vain. In other words, our faith alone in the death and resurrection of the Lord won’t save us. All believers must take responsible action to hold firmly to the word of God if they hope to attain their salvation, and this requires their co-operation with divine grace. Christ has formally made this possible by his death and resurrection, having sufficiently reconciled the whole world to the Father with his blood. Our Lord alone has initially merited this grace for us which we need to be saved by abounding in works done in charity and grace (Eph 2:8-10). If not, then what we believe we must do to be saved has been all in vain. Apart from the efficacy of God’s grace, we can never be intrinsically righteous before God. That righteousness which must be our own personal justifying righteousness does not originate from our human nature, but from the grace gained for us that has infused our souls. We are a composite of body and soul, and are expected to allow divine grace to transform our interior selves, so that we can grow in holiness and reach perfection as partakers of the divine life. Thus the apostle exhorted the Corinthians not to receive the grace of God in vain (2 6:1).

And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3, 18

So we do not lose heart. Even though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day.
2 Corinthians 4, 16

So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!
2 Corinthians 5, 17

You were taught to put away your former way of life, your old self, corrupt and deluded by its lusts, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to clothe yourselves with the new self, created according to the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
Ephesians 4, 22-24

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God - not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.
Ephesians 2, 8-10

Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust, and may become participants of the divine nature.
2 Peter 1, 4

"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5, 20

Jesus is just as clear, that unless our righteousness - not His - surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, we will not be saved. The justifying righteousness our Lord has in mind is that which is personally ours and reflects his own through the efficacy of divine grace. The quality of our souls determines whether we are just in God’s sight. Sanctification is the formal cause of justification. It determines what the latter essentially is. One must be made holy to be justified. St. Paul writes that we are “a new creation in Christ,” “created according to the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.” Everything God creates through the agency of his Spirit is real and genuine, including our personal righteousness.

And God said, “Let there be light.” And there was light.
Genesis 1, 3

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.”
Matthew 5, 14

But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1, 7

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[Good_Fella]

the early christians were identified/ described as those who had an ‘abundance of love’ for others. Agape love, which only comes from god, and flows from our baptismal confirmational enlightenment…it is nothing short of the transformation effect of hs upon someone. Its that quenticential, sine-qua-non indelible marking of the soul by god, when he rebirths us with his holy fire…that john the baptizer prophesied only christ could perform.

New christians have this new love from god, they have a glow on face, and a fire within. Its that gladness about having heard and accepted christ as lord. But, as scripture warns, except they put down strong roots and grow, sin of world can recapture them, just as paul saw happening and warned them of, in his asia minor churches.

Because paul saw it happening, he was constantly visiting and writing to the churches to help them hold firm to that which they first received ( that first agape love — for god & fellowman).

Agape

The ancient Greek word for love, which in the Christian faith refers especially to the covenant love of God for all of humanity and the reciprocation of that love by all of us, which cannot be complete unless our love for God is extended to our neighbour. This is what St. John means when he writes in his first Letter (1:7) that the blood of Jesus - the blood of a new covenant - cleanses us from all sin as long as we live in fellowship with our neighbour. If we live in hostility with our neighbour, or remain aloof from him or her out of sheer indifference, our covenant with God is broken, and all the divine promises that come with it are forfeited on our part. It is because of the love God has for us that our covenant with him has been established, but unless we love our neighbour, we cannot keep our covenant with God despite our claim that we love Him. None of us can rightly assert that we love God if we hate our neighbour. Our covenant with God demands that we love not only God, but also our neighbour as ourselves. If we were to ask God why we should love our neighbour as much as we love ourselves, he may reply: “Because I love them as much as I love you.” Surely other people can’t be unworthy of our love, unless we wish to presume that we are greater than God. Yet God is the one who has established his covenant with us because of his love for all of us. And this covenant does last as long as we love just as Jesus had loved. God’s love for us alone does not justify us. For us to be justified in God’s sight, his love must be perfected in us.

Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God; for God is love … Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another … if we love one another, God abides in us, and his love is perfected in us … We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.
*1 John 4, 7- 21 *

Mary understood perfectly that the love God had for her was that same infinite love God has for everyone. She praises and gives thanks to God not only for the great things he has done for her, but also for the mercy he has shown to the whole world because of his love for all human beings, whom he desires to save by lifting up the lowly by his grace. It was because of her love for others that Mary rejoiced in the love God has for them, too. Mary’s canticle of praise embraces the full meaning of her covenant with God.

We give thanks to God always for you all.
1 Thessalonians 1, 2

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[guanophore]

If you are trying to gain heaven by your own righteousness, you’ll never make it. Jer. 17:9; Romans 3:10. You must have the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ imputed to you - 2 Cor. 5:21. BTW, the “in vain” that you quote from 1 Cor. 15:2 has to do with our Lord’s resurrection. Note verses 12-14. If the Lord Jesus Christ has not risen then our faith is in vain.
Grace and Peace,
QC

This is very true, QC, though it is likely that we have different understandings of what 'imputed" means. Catholics believe that we are declared righteous because we have been actually MADE righteous by grace, through faith.

 

[QuickCat]

This is very true, QC, though it is likely that we have different understandings of what 'imputed" means. Catholics believe that we are declared righteous because we have been actually MADE righteous by grace, through faith.

The book of Romans is a classic example of an inspired epistle which emphasizes the importance of sound doctrine and its relationship to daily living. The word “righteousness” is mentioned 33 times in the book of Romans. The doctrine of the imputed righteousness of God is foundational for believers in the age of grace. Please note:
Ro 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Ro 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Ro 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Ro 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The only righteousness that a believer has and can subsequently boast about is the imputed righteousness of God that we obtain the moment we believe on the LORD Jesus Christ. Do you realize that if you are truly a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ you have the same righteousness that God has solely by the doctrine of imputation?
Why would God need to impute His righteousness to us who believe? Because, by the same doctrine of imputation, we were born with a sin nature, a bent to unrighteousness. When our father Adam fell he died both spiritually [immediately] and physically [later]. We are told in Genesis 5:3 that Adam “begat a son in his own likeness, after his image……” Thus the nature to sin was passed on to the entire human race by our father Adam. Note what Moses writes in Genesis 6:5 -
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (KJV)
Also in Jeremiah 17:9 -
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (KJV)
Paul confirms this in Romans 3:10 -
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (KJV)
Note the results of the fall of Adam -
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)
But - 2Co 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Ro 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. (ASV)
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (KJV)
Ro 5:18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. (ASV)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)
Ro 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous. (ASV)
A third, and most important doctrine of imputation, is found in 2 Corinthians 5:19-21
2Co 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (ASV)
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (KJV)
2Co 5:20 We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God. (ASV)
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. (KJV)
2Co 5:21 Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him. (ASV)

 

[Good_Fella]

The book of Romans is a classic example of an inspired epistle which emphasizes the importance of sound doctrine and its relationship to daily living. The word “righteousness” is mentioned 33 times in the book of Romans. The doctrine of the imputed righteousness of God is foundational for believers in the age of grace. Please note:
Ro 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Ro 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Ro 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Ro 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The only righteousness that a believer has and can subsequently boast about is the imputed righteousness of God that we obtain the moment we believe on the LORD Jesus Christ. Do you realize that if you are truly a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ you have the same righteousness that God has solely by the doctrine of imputation?
Why would God need to impute His righteousness to us who believe? Because, by the same doctrine of imputation, we were born with a sin nature, a bent to unrighteousness. When our father Adam fell he died both spiritually [immediately] and physically [later]. We are told in Genesis 5:3 that Adam “begat a son in his own likeness, after his image……” Thus the nature to sin was passed on to the entire human race by our father Adam. Note what Moses writes in Genesis 6:5 -
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (KJV)
Also in Jeremiah 17:9 -
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (KJV)
Paul confirms this in Romans 3:10 -
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (KJV)
Note the results of the fall of Adam -
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)
But - 2Co 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Ro 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. (ASV)
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (KJV)
Ro 5:18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. (ASV)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)
Ro 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous. (ASV)
A third, and most important doctrine of imputation, is found in 2 Corinthians 5:19-21
2Co 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (ASV)
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (KJV)
2Co 5:20 We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God. (ASV)
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. (KJV)
2Co 5:21 Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him. (ASV)

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking of them in these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3, 16

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