Did Mohammad exist?

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if that hadith was true, then it assures what Jesus told about the false prophets:
“By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” (Matthew 7:16).
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then what does that tell you about Jesus? he didnt have just angels around him,think about Juda

just because the shia people claim that abu Bakr,Umar,Aisha were munafiq it doesnt mean the prophet was…many kafir people gathered around him,some to harm him,some to get a higher status
 
I hesitate to add to this–I’ve already been accused of being a supporter of Islam, which I am NOT–but there is overwhelming evidence that Mohammad existed. Our evidence of Christ existing (outside of our faith, which is the only evidence we should need) is the consistency and historicity of the New Testament, and what non-Christians wrote about him. Records of the life of Mohammed from literally dozens or hundreds of sources are just as consistent about his existence, and there are many writings by non-followers of Mohammad about his life–not just that he existed, but what he said, what he did, etc. We can find graves of people whom Mohammad and his followers killed. The evidence for Mohammad’s existence is much, much stronger than the evidence for Christ’s existence. Let’s no kid ourselves with bad arguments.

But who cares? We know Hitler existed, that does not in anyway add credence to what he said. Even if the Qur’an came directly from the mouth of Mohammad, that does not in any way support that we should follow it. It is utterly devoid of the grace of Christ. If Mohammad was correct, we can never reach God or Heaven because we don’t know the way–God is completely outside of reality and has never shown us the way to Him. Christ is not just a pleasant addition to God, a convenient shortcut, but an absolute necessity. Until that is grasped, no talk of Islam being false is going to do any good. And once that is grasped, all talk of Islam becomes pointless.
 
Eucharisted said:
Many Muslims like to claim that the Bible is corrupted, so it can’t be a historical document. Well, two can play at that game…But does Islam have non-Islamic evidence for Mohammad’s existence?
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If Muslims cast doubt on the Gospel, they don’t understand their own Book which verifies the Gospel! Corruption of the text refers to specific instances, or inadequte interpretations, which happens in Islam as much as any other Faith.

This is not a specious game! Was there a non-biblical proof for Abraham, whose seed is to bless the earth?! Every tree had a seed. This one bore all the twelve Hashemite Imams that descended from 'Alí, as well as the Mahdí Who arose in 1844 to annull the laws of the Qur’an and initiate a new Book and a new Dispensation. No Dispensation lasts forever.
 
Imagine warring tribes of bedouins getting together to concoct a religion! This is a silly question. Now, there is some question about St. George existing, but St. George did not found a civilization.
 
Eucharisted said:
Many Muslims like to claim that the Bible is corrupted, so it can’t be a historical document. Well, two can play at that game.

Christianity has non-Christian evidence for Jesus’ existence. But dose Islam have non-Islamic evidence for Mohammad’s existence? Keep in mind, I’m playing by Islam’s rules. You can’t use the Qu’ran or Hadiths or any Islamic text because those are corrupted.
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Well, my dear brother. I think that Muhammad did existed. 600 years after the life of Jesus, logically may have brought better technology to keep records even to the nomaden tribes in the land of Arabia. The things I doubt is the genuiness of his “messages”.
 
hamba2han said:
Good grief!!.. I just cannot believe that this topic is even being discussed.
The Qur’an we have today came from the lips of just one man i.e. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), witnessed by countless thousands of not just his followers but also his many enemies as well throughout the 23-year period of his prophet-hood.
And so, if anyone wants to see absolute proof of his existence, just look for the nearest Qur’an… and you do not even have to read it to ascertain that he really existed.
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It shows the depths to which some will go, to imitate others, like foolish monkeys.
 
All the Baha’i that I’ve met (all converts, as far as I know) are like that: Oh, we love all religions…we love Jesus, and Christianity…and then when you ask them how they can claim to follow Jesus and the Qur’an and their own book when all three contradict one another, they stop being so positive. I guess this is also true of every other religion, but it’s particularly annoying from Baha’i given their posturing. At least Jews are usually upfront that they want nothing to do with Jesus, as Christians want nothing to do with Muhammad, as Muslims want nothing to do with either Christians or Jews, etc. At least you know where everybody stands, unlike these syncretist shysters, the Baha’i…I mean, they’re not even particularly good at it! :rolleyes:
 
God, as the Divine Physician for all social ills, sometimes alters His prescriptions.
Would you take all the prescriptions ever made for you?
I take what is directed by my current physician for my current condition. The laws and social ordinances like fasting, marriage and divorce (or no divorce), times and manner of prayer, what to sacrifice or not sacrifice, whether to go out to military jihad or not (Baha’u’lllah has now forbidden it in this age)…these are the secondary teachings.

The core thread that runs through all the Revelations is love and obedience, “Love the LORD thy God with all thy heart” etc., the Golden Rule. If you are a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim that does not recognize any Revelation after your own, fine. Be the best you can be. But you won’t be able to hinder others who hear the Call for long.

O would that all were truly Christian! It is easy to be a Christian on the tongue, but hard to be a true one. Today some five hundred million souls are Christian, but the real Christian is very rare: he is that soul from whose comely face there shineth the splendour of Christ, and who showeth forth the perfections of the Kingdom; this is a matter of great moment, for to be a Christian is to embody every excellence there is. I hope that thou, too, shalt become a true Christian. (Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 29)

This is the Call of the All-Glorious which is proclaimed from the Supreme Horizon in the Prison of 'Akká. He is the Expounder, the All-Knowing, the All-Informed. God, the True One, testifieth and the Revealers of His names and attributes bear witness that Our sole purpose in raising the Call and in proclaiming His sublime Word is that the ear of the entire creation may, through the living waters of divine utterance, be purged from lying tales and become attuned to the holy, the glorious and exalted Word which hath issued forth from the repository of the knowledge of the Maker of the Heavens and the Creator of Names. Happy are they that judge with fairness. (Bisharat (Glad Tidings),Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 19)
 
Followers of the Gospel! If ye cherish the desire to slay Muhammad, the Apostle of God, seize Me and put an end to My life, for I am He, and My Self is His Self. Do unto Me as ye like, for the deepest longing of Mine heart is to attain the presence of My Best-Beloved in His Kingdom of Glory. Such is the Divine decree, if ye know it.(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 101)

If you missed Him the first time, here’s your chance again! 🙂
 
I would rather be insane with the lovers of God, than fit in with “sane” wanderers.
**
I am lost, O Love, possessed and dazed,
Love’s fool am I, in all the earth.
They call me first among the crazed,
Though I once came first for wit and worth.
O Love, who sellest me this wine, [1]
O Love, for whom I burn and bleed,
Love, for whom I cry and pine –
Thou the Piper, I the reed.
If Thou wishest me to live,
Through me blow Thy holy breath.
The touch of Jesus Thou wilt give
To me, who’ve lain an age in death.
Thou, both End and Origin,
Thou without and Thou within –
From every eye Thou hidest well,
And yet in every eye dost dwell.**
(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 30)
[1 This wine, Rumí says elsewhere, comes from the jar of “Yea verily.” That is, it symbolizes the Primal Covenant established between God and man on the day of “Am I not your Lord?” On that day, the Creator summoned posterity out of the loins of Adam and said to the generations unborn, “Am I not your Lord?” Whereupon they answered, “Yea, verily, Thou art.” Cf. Qur’án 7:171.]
 
Ooo…you sure got me there, David. How I am envious of your nonsensical babble and love of a religion whose followers hate and persecute you. :rolleyes:
 
Whose thinking is the most incisive? God’s!
How incisive was the question ‘Did Muhammad exist?’
So that was not a divine question, was it?
Clear light has dawned in Jesus and Baha’u’llah,
which removes the scales and veils and fuzz and lint!
By what proof did we love Christ? The Gospel’s testimony.
The same is here again. Revelation has not ended.
Why would Two WItnesses be promised in Revelation 11?

I am trying to focus on urgent matters, and people are still
arguing over fuzzy ridiculous matters. Wake up!
See what happend to Judea in 70 AD. The Diaspora of the Jews.
They had rebelled against Babylon and were destroyed.
They rebelled against Rome, and were destroyed
It could happen again on a much vaster scale!
Since this new Revelation arose in Persia, let’s look at Iran now:

So long, however, as the thick clouds of oppression,
which obscure the daystar of justice, remain undispelled,
it would be difficult for the glory of this station to be unveiled to men’s eyes.
These thick clouds are the exponents of idle fancies and vain imaginings,
who are none other but the divines of Persia. (Bahá’u’lláh, ESW, p. 14)

**O people of Persia! In former times ye have been the symbols of mercy and the embodiments of affection and kindliness. The regions of the world were illumined and embellished by the brightness of the light of your knowledge and by the blaze of your erudition. How is it that you have arisen to destroy yourselves and your friends with your own hands? **(Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84)
 
dzheremi said:
I’ve never heard of any idea that he didn’t exist. Islam is the only of the major world religions to have been born entirely within recorded history. There are reportedly letters “signed” by Muhammad (which is to say, baring his insignia) in various museums around the world. You can find some examples of such yourself if you search for “letter from Muhammad” on Google Images search. I would say the evidence is fairly conclusive that he did exist.

Did you come across some theory about how Muhammad never existed, Eucharisted, or are you just asking a rhetorical question?
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There are letters perportedly written by Jesus as well. Search for king Abgar I think it is. Also study the story of Addai and Mari, the disciples of Christ who went to Persia. They had contact with the king there and carried letters from Jesus to the king. I think Eusebius quotes the letter of Jesus in his Ecclesiastical History.
 
You’re right. Go ahead as you were.
You don’t need to know about this.
 
hamba2han said:
Good grief!!.. I just cannot believe that this topic is even being discussed.

The Qur’an we have today came from the lips of just one man i.e. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), witnessed by countless thousands of not just his followers but also his many enemies as well throughout the 23-year period of his prophet-hood.

And so, if anyone wants to see absolute proof of his existence, just look for the nearest Qur’an… and you do not even have to read it to ascertain that he really existed.
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Wow… I never really thought of that. Judaism and Christianity are really a testimony of many men, but the Qur’an is from one man.
 
Gabriel is first mentioned as coming to Daniel, but he no doubt came to many others.
He came to the Virgin Mary and the illiterate man in a cave on Mt. Hira.

What explanation can they give concerning that which the Seal of the Prophets (Muhammad) – may the souls of all else but Him be offered up for His sake – hath said?: “Ye, verily, shall behold your Lord as ye behold the full moon on its fourteenth night.” (Baha’u’llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 41)
 
hamba2han said:
Good grief!!.. I just cannot believe that this topic is even being discussed.
The Qur’an we have today came from the lips of just one man i.e. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), witnessed by countless thousands of not just his followers but also his many enemies as well throughout the 23-year period of his prophet-hood.
And so, if anyone wants to see absolute proof of his existence, just look for the nearest Qur’an… and you do not even have to read it to ascertain that he really existed.
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hamba: After 1500 years, you’d think there would be a more ecumenical approach; but is this the right forum for that? This is the mentality that said “Retake the Holy City” instead of asking the occupiers to recite the Book. Umar was respectful of the churches, and even made the Christians clean up the Temple Mount; but when the Crusaders came, OMG!
There’re more receptive souls elsewhere; who’ll listen even tho’ current events make it increasingly difficult.
 
OK You’ve made your point. And what is it?
Look anywhere but the peak of Arabic eloquence. Be sure not to look there!

Would ye ask the Jews whether Jesus was the True One from God,
or the idols if Muhammad was an Apostle of His Lord,
or inquire from the people of the Qur’án as to Him Who was the Remembrance of God, the Most Exalted, the Most Great? (Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 36)
 
In some sense, they are all in the same place, where the just landowner puts them, when he returns to his estate and punishes the wicked husbandmen, who probably pled for mercy. (Matthew 21:33-46)
Or the workers who were let out at different times (Matthw 20: 1-16) The earliest ones complain because they expected to be aid more. But they won’t be.
 
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