A
Armyvet007
Guest
Agreed, but I fail to see how reminding her of unanswered questions is in anyway a form of judging.
- Status
G
Gidras05
Guest
Ah, I must have misinterpreted the atmosphere of the conversations between the main posters here and Kou. It seemed that Kou’s delayed responses were being attributed to either lack of understanding, or postponing and avoidance of the topic. For some reason this felt a little hostile to me, but perhaps I misinterpreted it.
Either way, sorry if I implied you were being judgmental.
A
Armyvet007
Guest
Thank you for the clarification. “Postponing and avoidance of the topic,” yes, that is what I am attributing her delayed responses to. This is based on- points similar to ones she made in the past, “I’ll get back to you”/“I’m researching it” type responses to said points with no follow up, in-depth responses to more complex points, pointing out her education/specialized education, etc. If my posts come across as hostile [mean] then that is most likely due to my frustration at her avoidance coming across as hostility [being mean/vindictive]. And I assume that would be the case for some of the other posters whose comments come across as hostile [though there are some I do not assume this is the case for].
A
Augustine3
Guest
We are commanded by our Lord Jesus to love our friends and enemies. Whoever does not live up to this command is not living out the true Christian faith.
Here are the Quranic verses I was referring to:
“So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.” – Sura 10:94
How could God ask Mohammed if he had doubts to consult those that have been reading scripture if their scripture was corrupt? Remember it cannot be referring to the original scripture because they were reading the scripture during their time, they cannot be reading the original scripture from the past.
“And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.” – Sura 5:47
How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel is corrupt? Remember it cannot be referring to the original Gospel because they could not travel back in time and use the original Gospel to judge…
“But when the truth came to them from Us, they said, “Why was he not given like that which was given to Moses?” Did they not disbelieve in that which was given to Moses before? They said, “[They are but] two works of magic supporting each other, and indeed we are, in both, disbelievers. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient. Say, Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of them that I may follow it, if you should be truthful.” – Sura 28:48-49
Mohammed challenges disbelievers to bring a scripture more guiding than the Quran and the Torah, why would Mohammed propose this challenge if the Torah was corrupt? Again it cannot be referring to the original Torah because they could not travel back in time to obtain it…
God bless,
S
sedonaman
Guest
A couple of years ago, there was another Muslim on this forum who would tell us this. He never did.
S
sedonaman
Guest
There is something fundamentally wrong with Islam.
Anyone can stand up and claim to have a message from God. But the question is, how are the rest of us to know whether or not that individual is actually God’s messenger of truth or if he is just pretending or delusional … or both? What objective evidence or proofs are available to demonstrate that an individual is speaking as God’s appointed messenger? What proofs does that individual messenger point to as evidence to substantiate his claims?
Mohammed never performed any miracles, so when people asked for some sign as proof of his claims, Mohammed’s only method of validation that he was not just making things up was his appeal to other known apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his own message. Without confirmation from other apostles and scriptures, Mohammed had no means or argument to defend himself from the accusation that he was inventing Islam himself. The fact that Mohammed himself performed no miracles to attest to his message is made even more ironic by the fact that some of the previous apostles, which Mohammed appeals to for validation, did perform miracles [Acts 2:43, Acts 12, Acts 19]. Islam actually endorses and in fact relies upon the divine legitimacy of both Judaism and Christianity as religions established by God. Mohammed also claimed that he was the last in a line of prophets [including Jesus] that started with Abraham. However, if he makes these claims, his preaching becomes subject to comparison with what the Judeo-Christian scriptures, prophets, Jesus, and the Apostles preached. Proving his claim was enough of a problem for him that it is documented in the Qur’an. Being illiterate, he had only a slight familiarity with Judeo-Christian scriptures, so the resulting Islamic texts contradict those scriptures in a number of minor and major places. For example, the Qur’an has Moses as Jesus’ uncle, even though they are separated by 1,250 years! This happened because Mohammed got Moses’ mother, Miriam, confused with Jesus’ mother, Mary.
We can clearly see the inescapable dilemma that Mohammed is in.
On the one hand, Mohammed performs no miracles. So, in order to demonstrate that he is not making up the Qur’an by himself, he must appeal to previous apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his validity. The frequency with which Mohammed does so itself demonstrates that it is absolutely necessary and that he understands this necessity [and it is apparently still necessary even today, as Islam makes absurd claims like Lincoln was a Muslim].
But, on the other hand, if Mohammed affirms previous apostles and scriptures as being sent from God in order to support his own authenticity, then Mohammed becomes subject to comparison with their teachings. If Mohammed would simply have denied previous apostles and scriptures, then the words of Judeo-Christian apostles and scripture could not necessarily be used to disprove Islam. But, since Mohammed himself necessarily affirms the divine origin of Judeo-Christian apostles and scriptures, we can thereby invalidate Mohammed’s teaching [and all of Islam] if Mohammed’s words in the Qur’an contradict the previous apostles and scriptures that he so frequently and necessarily affirms, and indeed they do because Islam is in major conflict with the Gospel since the Qur’an denies that Christ was crucified and died on the cross. Christ’s death on the cross is absolutely critical to Christianity, to which Mohammed continually, and constantly appealed for his own validation.
Since we have shown that Islam denies the proof that it appeals to for its own validation, we can reject the claims of Islam as being from God.
Mohammed tries to get around his dilemma by claiming that the Bible had become “corrupt” down through time, although he does not show what the supposed “corruption” is. If we accept this assertion, Qur’anic passages such as, “Kill the unbeliever wherever you find him” was the original message from God that had gotten “corrupted” to “Love your neighbor as yourself” which had to be corrected back to, “Kill the unbeliever wherever you find him.” This is patently absurd.
Since Islam and Christianity are fundamentally and inherently in contradiction of one another, the naive and/or wishful thinking of those who would suggest otherwise is just that: naive and/or wishful thinking, for no matter how sincere 1.3 billion believers are in their search for God, all the sincerity in the world will not make a belief true.
Islam is an incoherent religious system [if it is a religion], which should be rejected by all rational people. Islam has a poor [at best] explanation for the origin of Christianity. If Islam is true, the existence of Christianity makes no sense at all. However, Christianity easily explains the rise of Islam: “False prophets shall arise and mislead many.”
Anyone can stand up and claim to have a message from God. But the question is, how are the rest of us to know whether or not that individual is actually God’s messenger of truth or if he is just pretending or delusional … or both? What objective evidence or proofs are available to demonstrate that an individual is speaking as God’s appointed messenger? What proofs does that individual messenger point to as evidence to substantiate his claims?
Mohammed never performed any miracles, so when people asked for some sign as proof of his claims, Mohammed’s only method of validation that he was not just making things up was his appeal to other known apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his own message. Without confirmation from other apostles and scriptures, Mohammed had no means or argument to defend himself from the accusation that he was inventing Islam himself. The fact that Mohammed himself performed no miracles to attest to his message is made even more ironic by the fact that some of the previous apostles, which Mohammed appeals to for validation, did perform miracles [Acts 2:43, Acts 12, Acts 19]. Islam actually endorses and in fact relies upon the divine legitimacy of both Judaism and Christianity as religions established by God. Mohammed also claimed that he was the last in a line of prophets [including Jesus] that started with Abraham. However, if he makes these claims, his preaching becomes subject to comparison with what the Judeo-Christian scriptures, prophets, Jesus, and the Apostles preached. Proving his claim was enough of a problem for him that it is documented in the Qur’an. Being illiterate, he had only a slight familiarity with Judeo-Christian scriptures, so the resulting Islamic texts contradict those scriptures in a number of minor and major places. For example, the Qur’an has Moses as Jesus’ uncle, even though they are separated by 1,250 years! This happened because Mohammed got Moses’ mother, Miriam, confused with Jesus’ mother, Mary.
We can clearly see the inescapable dilemma that Mohammed is in.
On the one hand, Mohammed performs no miracles. So, in order to demonstrate that he is not making up the Qur’an by himself, he must appeal to previous apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his validity. The frequency with which Mohammed does so itself demonstrates that it is absolutely necessary and that he understands this necessity [and it is apparently still necessary even today, as Islam makes absurd claims like Lincoln was a Muslim].
But, on the other hand, if Mohammed affirms previous apostles and scriptures as being sent from God in order to support his own authenticity, then Mohammed becomes subject to comparison with their teachings. If Mohammed would simply have denied previous apostles and scriptures, then the words of Judeo-Christian apostles and scripture could not necessarily be used to disprove Islam. But, since Mohammed himself necessarily affirms the divine origin of Judeo-Christian apostles and scriptures, we can thereby invalidate Mohammed’s teaching [and all of Islam] if Mohammed’s words in the Qur’an contradict the previous apostles and scriptures that he so frequently and necessarily affirms, and indeed they do because Islam is in major conflict with the Gospel since the Qur’an denies that Christ was crucified and died on the cross. Christ’s death on the cross is absolutely critical to Christianity, to which Mohammed continually, and constantly appealed for his own validation.
Since we have shown that Islam denies the proof that it appeals to for its own validation, we can reject the claims of Islam as being from God.
Mohammed tries to get around his dilemma by claiming that the Bible had become “corrupt” down through time, although he does not show what the supposed “corruption” is. If we accept this assertion, Qur’anic passages such as, “Kill the unbeliever wherever you find him” was the original message from God that had gotten “corrupted” to “Love your neighbor as yourself” which had to be corrected back to, “Kill the unbeliever wherever you find him.” This is patently absurd.
Since Islam and Christianity are fundamentally and inherently in contradiction of one another, the naive and/or wishful thinking of those who would suggest otherwise is just that: naive and/or wishful thinking, for no matter how sincere 1.3 billion believers are in their search for God, all the sincerity in the world will not make a belief true.
Islam is an incoherent religious system [if it is a religion], which should be rejected by all rational people. Islam has a poor [at best] explanation for the origin of Christianity. If Islam is true, the existence of Christianity makes no sense at all. However, Christianity easily explains the rise of Islam: “False prophets shall arise and mislead many.”
S
sedonaman
Guest
Since Islam denies the proof [the Bible] that it appeals to for its own validation, we can reject the claims of Islam as being from God.
Mohammed tries to get around his dilemma by claiming that the Bible had become “corrupt” down through time, although he does not show what the supposed “corruption” is. If we accept this assertion, Qur’anic passages such as, “Kill the unbeliever wherever you find him” was the original message from God that had gotten “corrupted” to “Love your neighbor as yourself” which had to be “corrected” back to, “Kill the unbeliever wherever you find him.” To believe this is patently absurd.
M
Marybeloved
Guest
If the Torah and Gospel were Allah’s revelations like the Qur’an, why did he not preserve them like you claim he does the Qur’an? If he let them be corrupted, what’s to say the Qur’an wont similarly be corrupted? If not, then how can you say that the Torah and the Injil were corrupted despite being Allah’s books?
A
Armyvet007
Guest
And why would He switch languages [from Hebrew to Classical Arabic (and here a specific dialect within Classical Arabic] if language is as important as Muslims claim?
S
sedonaman
Guest
One must wonder how many of the OT prophets spoke that specific dialect within Classical Arabic. Remember, these OT prophets were used by Mohammed to verify his prophethood. Did they speak Arabic?
A
Augustine3
Guest
Another thing that’s hard to fathom is Mohammed claims to be a descendant of Ishmael. Muslims claim to be descendants of Ishmael the son of the slave Hagar. Whereas we Christians are spiritual sons of Isaac, sons of the covenant made to Abraham through Isaac.
Of course Muslims claim that’s a forgery it was really Ishmael Abraham’s first born that was offered as a sacrifice while at the same time the book of Genesis tells us many times the father’s blessing is constantly been passed over the first born son to the next son because of their failure to live up to what they were call to. Even the Quran acknowledges Jacob, Joseph etc. to be prophets who were not the first born sons…
Of course Muslims claim that’s a forgery it was really Ishmael Abraham’s first born that was offered as a sacrifice while at the same time the book of Genesis tells us many times the father’s blessing is constantly been passed over the first born son to the next son because of their failure to live up to what they were call to. Even the Quran acknowledges Jacob, Joseph etc. to be prophets who were not the first born sons…
S
Simon62
Guest
Prayer to Our Lady of Africa for the conversion of Muslims.
(composed by Mgr. Pavy, second Bishop of Algiers, in 1858)
O Holy and Immaculate Heart of Mary, so full of mercy, be affected by the blindness and deep misery of the muslims. You, the Mother of God made man, obtain for them the knowledge of our holy religion, the grace to embrace and practice it faithfully, so that through your powerful intercession we will all be united in the same hope and same love of your Divine Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, who was crucified and who died for the salvation of all men and resurrected full of glory, reign in the unity of the Father and the Holy Spirit, One God for ever and ever, Amen.
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and convert those who have not recourse to thee.
Our Lady of Africa, pray for us, convert us, convert the Jews, the Muslims, the Marxists, the Freemasons and all souls who are under the influence of the Anti-Christ.
Consoler of the afflicted, pray for us.
(composed by Mgr. Pavy, second Bishop of Algiers, in 1858)
O Holy and Immaculate Heart of Mary, so full of mercy, be affected by the blindness and deep misery of the muslims. You, the Mother of God made man, obtain for them the knowledge of our holy religion, the grace to embrace and practice it faithfully, so that through your powerful intercession we will all be united in the same hope and same love of your Divine Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, who was crucified and who died for the salvation of all men and resurrected full of glory, reign in the unity of the Father and the Holy Spirit, One God for ever and ever, Amen.
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and convert those who have not recourse to thee.
Our Lady of Africa, pray for us, convert us, convert the Jews, the Muslims, the Marxists, the Freemasons and all souls who are under the influence of the Anti-Christ.
Consoler of the afflicted, pray for us.
S
sedonaman
Guest
Since Muslims believe that everyone was originally Muslim and Arabic is Allah’s language, why did Allah not reveal his original scriptures * in Arabic?*
M
MartinJordan
Guest
Since Muslims believe that everyone was originally Muslim and Arabic is Allah’s language, why did Allah not reveal his original scriptures * in Arabic?*
God abrogated the rules?
MJ
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I find it extraordinary this Muslim woman’s claims…and how she has become so literate in English in just a month…but after her all her studies of Sacred Scripture in different languages can make no sense of it.
In our freshman year of college, we had to study various texts…but had to understand what the text meant or we just didn’t pass the class.
In our freshman year of college, we had to study various texts…but had to understand what the text meant or we just didn’t pass the class.
A
Augustine3
Guest
I have asked Kouyate42 several times the same questions regarding some verses in the Quran which she promised to respond. She still has not responded which shows us she is not a lady of her word. If she doesn’t know the answer then she continues to live in ignorance. All that bragging of talent will not save her…
God bless,
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Self promotion with no answers or understandings in spite of years of learning, and years of language study to boot…and no insight or reflection…says just the contrary.
Atleast it is a known fact in Christianity…that with little or no education…St. Catherine of Siena comes to mind…who was taught by the Holy Spirit and became a doctor of the Church…could certainly provide most profound teaching of God.
Atleast it is a known fact in Christianity…that with little or no education…St. Catherine of Siena comes to mind…who was taught by the Holy Spirit and became a doctor of the Church…could certainly provide most profound teaching of God.
S
sedonaman
Guest
Augustine and Kathleen:
Kouyate is just using Muslim debate tactics that we have seen many times before.
Kouyate is just using Muslim debate tactics that we have seen many times before.
J
jakasaki
Guest
Indeed - and the religious profile has changed to “secretly muslim”…Augustine and Kathleen:
Kouyate is just using Muslim debate tactics that we have seen many times before.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
The purpose of the ‘tactic’ is to flaunt and put down.
I am reading many excellent articles and opinions by well educated Muslims on www.NewAgeIslam.com.
Kouyate might be able to learn something from them…
I am reading many excellent articles and opinions by well educated Muslims on www.NewAgeIslam.com.
Kouyate might be able to learn something from them…
- Status