J
jericho777
Guest
Why then did rev. not say the churches were under Rome? Or Rome was not even in existance at that time?
The Church proper believes it is the body not all those who believe in Christ.
- Status
The Church proper believes it is the body not all those who believe in Christ.
G
Good_Fella
Guest
“The Mighty one has done great things for me, and holy is his name.”
Luke 1, 49
By honouring Mary and the Saints, we honour God, for they are his friends who honour Him for his infinite goodness and love. We couldn’t possibly love God with all our heart, and with all our mind, and with all our soul and offer him the praise that is rightly due if we refused to honour the Mother of his divine Son. Mary certainly acknowledged the great things our heavenly Father did for her, and we join her in her canticle of praise for all the graces she has received in the hypostatic order of redemption.
Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty.
Psalm 150, 2
On those who waver, have mercy; save others by snatching them out of the fire.
Jude 23
“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners.”
{From the Hail Mary prayer}
“if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you…”
Ephesians 3, 2
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift from God.
Ephesians 2, 8
For we are God’s co-workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
1 Corinthians 3, 9
First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone…This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2, 1, 3-4
By praying to Mary and the Saints, we are entreating them to pray for us so that we receive all the graces necessary for our salvation, especially those actual efficacious graces which we lack. The offering of our petitions to God’s holy ones, who combine their prayers to God with ours, is an act of faith and confidence in God’s assurance that he wishes to save everyone through his grace of salvation in view of the redemptive merits of Christ. Our Lady’s intercessory prayers are most efficacious in the order of grace, because God’s love for her is stronger than it is for all the other saints combined. For Mary is the mother of His Incarnate-Self. The graces we receive are an effect of God’s love for us, and since Mary is the Virgin Mother of God, we receive a flow of the plenitude of grace that she has been endowed with through her maternal and merciful intercession.
PAX :heaven:
J
jericho777
Guest
As you said only God’s name is holy and only His name is worthy to be praised.
Salvation is found in the person of Jesus there is no other name given under heaven.
We are to pray for each other on earth but but in heaven the bible teaches Jesus is the only one making intercession for us in heaven.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Why would that be necessary? The letters were for the individual groups who had unique circumstances and problems.
There were believers in Rome as soon as the Roman citizens who were in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost had returned to their homes.
It was this group that Peter later built up.
J
jericho777
Guest
1 Because if Rome was the center of power why wouldn’t they be mentioned? Not necessarily because each church had 1 of the seven spirits of God which gives each church it’s authority.
2 Yes absolutely but that does not mean they were in charge.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
The earliest Christians thought differently.
The Early Church Fathers on the Primacy of Peter/Rome
The Early Church Fathers understood from the beginning that Peter and his successors held a place of primacy in the Church.
Clement of Rome
Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1[A.D. 95]).
Ignatius of Antioch
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).
Clement of Alexandria
[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? “Behold, we have left all and have followed you” [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).
Tertullian
[T]he Lord said to Peter, “On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven” [Matt. 16:18-19]. … Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (*Modesty *21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
Letter of Clement to James
Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).
Cyprian
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).
The Lord says to Peter: “I say to you,” he says, “that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church” . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was , but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).
R
ronin67
Guest
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps for a first born"
As one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps for a first born.= Description of emotional aspect of great sorrow. This describes how intense their sorrow will be. It doesn’t literally say he is an only child.
However, it can be interpreted to say this I suppose:shrug:. Again, does it matter? She is still the most rightous woman who ever walked the earth. Blessed Holy Mother Mary help us to overcome our pride. Jesus our Savior deliver us from our evil pride.
May God Bless you all!
Ed
S
SingleMomMonica
Guest
Way cool! Thanks dude!
G
Good_Fella
Guest
Elizabeth praised her cousin Mary by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when she exclaimed Most blessed are you amomg women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. She was elated that her cousin had been chosen among all women to be the virgin mother of our Lord out of admiration for her. And in approbation of Mary’s act of faith in love for our spiritual benefit, Elizabeth praised her cousin by declaring Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled . Jesus himself praised his mother for her faith when he told the woman in the crowd More blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. And he admired his mother for having renounced this world for the sake of the kingdom of heaven by dedicating her life first and foremost to God in a true spirit of charity. Jesus must have kept his mother in mind when he praised Mary, the sister of Martha, for having chosen the better part. The praise we offer Mary is not that which we give to exalt God in the act of worship.
“Behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.”
*Luke 1, 48 *
By the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary merited for us our salvation by freely consenting to be the mother of our Lord. Salvation is a free gift offered to us by God in his infinite mercy. It is not an imposition on us by God’s omnipotence. God’s might and wisdom co-exist in unity and harmony. He efficaciously willed that by his grace a woman and virgin should contribute to the redemption by a perfect act of faith and obedience out of love for God, since a woman and virgin had helped cause the fall of *mankind * by and act of disobedience out of aversion towards God and his will. Mary’s fiat was causative of our salvation in a secondary way, just as Eve’s non serviam was indirectly causative of the fall of mankind through the power of human free will.
“Well done, my good and faithful servant.”
Jesus will commend all the faithful upon their entry into heavenly glory with these words of praise. Our heavenly reward will be measured by the degree of our faith working through love.
Please see Revelation 20, 6.
PAX :heaven:
T
TheLastProfit
Guest
Thomas was Jesus’ brother. The Catholic Church does recognize this.
T
TheLastProfit
Guest
Actually Thomas may have been Peter’s brother, but I’m sure that one of the apostles was recognized as Jesus’ sibling. I’ll have to look into it.
T
Teneas
Guest
Proof of such?
G
Good_Fella
Guest
I think you should.
J
jericho777
Guest
The Lord has shown great favor to her. Now you have made her a necessary part for salvation.
Only by the metit of Christ can I be saved Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Yes we are called blessed just as Mary was.
D
Dokimas
Guest
-I posted this earlier. It answers your logic about ‘until’ by using your logic with the following verses.
[SIGN]Let’s apply what you infer to other verses with the same Greek word and construction… Let’s see what they say usning your inference.
2193 = heos - till, until
Mt 1:25 and did not know her till <2193> she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS. Joseph never knew Mary in a complete way.Mt 2:13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until <2193> I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.” Mary, Joseph and Jesus never left Egypt.
Mt 10:11 "Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till <2193> you go out. They never left those sities.
Mt 5:26 "Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till <2193> you have paid the last penny. After paying his debt, he stayed in jail.
Mt 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until <2193> the Son of Man is risen from the dead.” They never told of the vision.
Mt 23:39 “for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till <2193> you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’” They never saw and never will see Jesus again.
Mt 26:36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, “Sit here while <2193> I go and pray over there.” They never stood up and spent the rest of their days in Gethsemane sitting.[/SIGN]
How’d your logic do for these verses???
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
Dokimas, can I please ask you a question ,why do you not answer the questions
J
jericho777
Guest
D
Dokimas
Guest
Which questions, Bill?
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
Well Carson has a list of them,are maybe you just miss a few
- Status