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clem456
Guest
Bolded gets right to the heart of it.
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Zipply
Guest
I dare someone here to concoct a narrative of this supposed ‘human evolution resulting in Adam and Eve’ process.
Go ahead.
I triple dog dare you.
Be sure to include all the elements…including the circumstances of the birth of Adam and Eve, and the history of their parents and their relatives.
Go ahead.
I triple dog dare you.
Be sure to include all the elements…including the circumstances of the birth of Adam and Eve, and the history of their parents and their relatives.
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clem456
Guest
You think he didn’t know ahead of time what they would look like?
Really?
Isn’t God omniscient?
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buffalo
Guest
You may be surprised as the views and downloads of the IDvolution site.
You note buffalo and buffalo.
I often use the resources here. No apologies.
It doesn’t change the facts.
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buffalo
Guest
Right. Everyone pretty much agrees. This one is a little tougher.
Did Adam and Eve look as God had planned?
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Norm_The_Robot
Guest
Why would long liefspans in Genesis times be considered rediculous, considering all the other “crazy stuff” we believe.
I am sure scientists would not agree that virgin birth is possible. I am sure that science would not kindly upon someone being a Demoniac and scoff at christ being able to transfer the demon from a person to a pig, I am sure scientists would laugh some being cured of blindness by a little mud in the eye, I am sure that scientists would not thing it possible to turn water into wine and a few loaves of bread in to thousands, or Jesus walking on water. Does transubstantiation reall make any sense to the nonbeliever? The resurections sounds rediculous as well and jesus being taken up into the clouds/heaven?
We believe all of these things that go against all common sense and scientific reason. Why not other stuff? Why cherry pick?
I am sure scientists would not agree that virgin birth is possible. I am sure that science would not kindly upon someone being a Demoniac and scoff at christ being able to transfer the demon from a person to a pig, I am sure scientists would laugh some being cured of blindness by a little mud in the eye, I am sure that scientists would not thing it possible to turn water into wine and a few loaves of bread in to thousands, or Jesus walking on water. Does transubstantiation reall make any sense to the nonbeliever? The resurections sounds rediculous as well and jesus being taken up into the clouds/heaven?
We believe all of these things that go against all common sense and scientific reason. Why not other stuff? Why cherry pick?
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buffalo
Guest
How about God created everything ExNihilo, but couldn’t give the ancients long life spans?
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FrDavid96
Guest
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buffalo
Guest
Sorry, I do not accept Wiki links.
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Zipply
Guest
How long do y’all think I’ll have to dangle this out there before I can consider my point made, that to do so is impossible.
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buffalo
Guest
Is your claim evo has foresight? No one claims this. No one claims it is guided. The claim is it is not a directed process.
I am unclear as to what you are objecting to.
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clem456
Guest
Apologies for being blunt, but the question is pointless.
Of course God is omniscient, and omnipotent. He does what he wills and knows everything.
The heart of your claim is that evolution cannot be part of God’s plan. The Church makes no such claim. In fact the documents from reliable Church sources (Popes
) welcome the study of evolution and admit it’s validity, without espousing any particular scenario.We are better off not trying to fit God’s “omnis” into a small box of our own making.
God can do what he wills, in the way he wants to do it. If he wanted to raise up a species of pre-humans, enjoy the beauty of His creation, and then create humanity by putting a soul into two of them, really who are you to say He cannot do that? On what authority can you definitively throw out that scenario? Especially given the fact that evolutionary science is almost undisputable fact, and scientific study is itself a gift of God?
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buffalo
Guest
Pope Benedict XVI
“Contrary to the thinking of both Laplace and Hegel, all things in the universe cannot be derived form one another with ineluctable necessity” (52). The second is that human beings do exist, yet did not have to. As Ratzinger elaborates, “We are, he [Monod] says, the result of chance. It is as if we had drawn a luck number in the lottery and had suddenly and unexpectedly won a billion dollars” (52 – 53, footnote removed). However, Ratzinger points out that the difference between him and Monod “is that in place of God’s will Monod postulates chance – the lottery – as having produced us” (53).
What response shall we make to this view? It is the affair of the natural sciences to explain how the tree of life in particular continues to grow and how new branches shoot out form it. This is not a matter of faith. But we must have the audacity to say the the great projects of the living creation are not the products of chance and error. Nor are they the products of a selective process to which divine predicates can be attributed in illogical, unscientific, and even mythic fashion. The great projects of the living creation point to a creating Reason and show us a creating Intelligence and they do so more luminously and radiantly today than ever before. Thus we can say today with anew certitude and joyousness that the human being is indeed a divine project, which only the creating Intelligence was strong and great and audacious enough to conceive of Human beings are not a mistake but something willed; they are the fruit of love. They can disclose in themselves, in the bold project that they are, the language of the creating Intelligence that speaks to them and that moves them to say: Yes, Father, you have willed me. (56 – 57)
Jacques Monod, who rejects as unscientific every kind of faith in God and who thinks that the world originated out of an interplay of chance and necessity, tells in the very work in which he attempts summarily to portray and justify his view of the world that, after attending the lectures which afterward appeared in book form, François Mauriac is supposed to have said: **“What this professor wants to afflict on us is far more unbelievable than what we poor Christians were ever expected to believe.” **
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buffalo
Guest
The question is not pointless. It gets right at the problem.Apologies for being blunt, but the question is pointless.
Of course God is omniscient, and omnipotent. He does what he wills and knows everything.
The heart of your claim is that evolution cannot be part of God’s plan. The Church makes no such claim. In fact the documents from reliable Church sources (Popes
We are better off not trying to fit God’s “omnis” into a small box of our own making.
God can do what he wills, in the way he wants to do it. If he wanted to raise up a species of pre-humans, enjoy the beauty of His creation, and then create humanity by putting a soul into two of them, really who are you to say He cannot do that? On what authority can you definitively throw out that scenario?
Adam and Eve were made in His image.
Are there among us individuals without original sin?
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clem456
Guest
This is where the disconnect lies. Not all science goes against God’s will. Science is a gift from God. It can be abused like any other gift.
Just because -a- scientist, or -some- scientists, or -most- scientists, come to the conclusion we are a product of a creator-less lottery, doesn’t mean the science itself is invalid. You have to look at the science on it’s own merits, and always it must be compatible with our faith. Science can never rule out a creator, and the creator can do creation however he wills.
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clem456
Guest
It is pointless, because the Church does not dispute those questions, neither am I, neither is Fr.
Adam and Eve in God’s image. check
Two parents only. check
Original sin stemming from them. check
ok
Big point of confusion:
What is a human being?
Answer: body and soul created by God, each of us uniquely and intentionally created.
Here’s a cheap analogy for you:
I look like Lebron James. I have two arms, two legs, a heart, a brain, etc…
You could say we come from the same “breeding stock” or same gene pool, same genetic material.
Therefore I am asserting that I am an NBA player along with him. There is more than one of him, cause my body is like him. I can dunk a basketball from the foul line and touch the top of the backboard with my knees. Oh, wait, we have a problem here…that is not who I am and I cannot do those things. In effect, I do not have a “soul” like him.
God has created Lebron with those gifts, he has not gifted me with them.
I am merely pre-NBA material. I cannot claim that I am something I am not.
Do you see the difference?
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buffalo
Guest
Since we agree every living human is descended from Adam and Eve, what happened to the non-humans? Can we be certain humans did not mate and do not have an immortal soul or original sin? How would we be able to tell?It is pointless, because the Church does not dispute those questions, neither am I, neither is Fr.
Adam and Eve in God’s image. check
Two parents only. check
Original sin stemming from them. check
ok
Big point of confusion:
What is a human being?
Answer: body and soul created by God, each of us uniquely and intentionally created.
Here’s a cheap analogy for you:
I look like Lebron James. I have two arms, two legs, a heart, a brain, etc…
You could say we come from the same “breeding stock” or same gene pool, same genetic material.
Therefore I am asserting that I am an NBA player along with him. There is more than one of him, cause my body is like him. I can dunk a basketball from the foul line and touch the top of the backboard with my knees. Oh, wait, we have a problem here…that is not who I am and I cannot do those things. In effect, I do not have a “soul” like him.
God has created Lebron with those gifts, he has not gifted me with them.
I am merely pre-NBA material. I cannot claim that I am something I am not.
Do you see the difference?
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clem456
Guest
How could I know what happened to non-humans? Perhaps due to limited capacities they died out? I dunno. You are asking questions that may never be answered by science.
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TMC
Guest
I am not sure what your point it is. Are you saying that evolution could not have resulted in humans? If you explain your point I am happy to try to address it.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Somehow, between this post and today, you seem to have shifted into arguing in favor of fundamentalism.
I’m not sure exactly what you are trying to say. Not anymore.
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