Did St. Paul Lie to the Romans?

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YahShuaMessiah

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On another thread, this was posted:

The word of God tells me:

Acts 16:30-31
“…what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved…”

Romans 10:9-10
“That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”

Now this is quite clear and I pose this question. That if any of these statements are lacking in anything regarding salvation, than both St. Luke and St. Paul have commited a lie to the receipients of their writtings. Think about that for a moment. The Romans would have received a lie. They did not have any other part of the New Testament at the time they received the letter from Paul. So, Paul would have being lieing to them about salvation.

I would like to know how the Catholic faith reconciles the comments of St. Luke and St. Paul. If they neglected anything in their response, they would be indeed lieing as to what is required to be saved.
 
But belief in Jesus Christ means obeying His commandment and teachings, not just tacit acknowledgement of Him.

Notworthy
 
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NotWorthy:
But belief in Jesus Christ means obeying His commandment and teachings, not just tacit acknowledgement of Him.

Notworthy
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Right. And Jesus himself commanded us to be born again of the water and the spirit. And, if you do not do so, you shall not enter his father’s kingdom. You can bet that even Lucifer greatly beleives in Jesus…
 
St. Paul did not lie to the Romans. He did, however, send an entire letter, not one excerpt. Also, the recipients of the letter already had knowledge of Jesus (were Christians). How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news!
 
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Pug:
St. Paul did not lie to the Romans. He did, however, send an entire letter, not one excerpt. Also, the recipients of the letter already had knowledge of Jesus (were Christians)…
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This is the very reason why people need to understand what they are reading and it’s context! Seek the Church, it IS the “pillar and foundation of truth”. Unguided reading will just lead you further astray…also see:
Acts 8 - There’s a very good reason why this event is in the Bible.
 
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imroc:
This is the very reason why people need to understand what they are reading and it’s context! Seek the Church, it IS the “pillar and foundation of truth”. Unguided reading will just lead you further astray…also see:
Acts 8 - There’s a very good reason why this event is in the Bible.
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You mean, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God” means look to the Church to bring you to God?

Notworthy
 
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NotWorthy:
You mean, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God” means look to the Church to bring you to God?

Notworthy
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The Church being the Kingdom of God on earth…
 
My point being…a questioned was asked…point blank. An answer was given…point blank. And in those answers, nowhere does it mentioned being baptised, going through all the sacraments etc…

St Paul and St. Luke said it clearly…point blank.
 
You obviously got stuck on a single snippet because I already covered it by saying that there’s more in the book than just that statement. That was in another topic though, but you were there…

But here’s more…

John 3:5 and 22
Titus 3:5
Acts2:37-38
Acts 22:16
1 Cor 6:11
Romans 6:4
Hebrews 10:22

Here’s on that is pretty blunt! : 1 Peter 3:21

Romans 2:5-8
2 Cor 5:10, 11:15
1 Peter 1:17
Rev 20:12-13
Col 3:24-25

Mat 7:21
Mat 19:16-17
John 14:21
Romans 2:2-8
Galations 5:4-6
Eph 2:8-10
Phil 2:12-13

Here’s a real kicker for you… James 2:14-24…Actually, read the whole book of James! It’s not long, but it’s very clear.

These are just a few to start with. As with the little snippet you use to debate with, these are snippets. Read what’s around them and if you still don’t “get it”, look into what the context means!
 
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YahShuaMessiah:
And in those answers, nowhere does it mentioned being baptised, going through all the sacraments etc…
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I dislike this line of argument, seeing as how Acts does not report all that Paul says to the jailer, rather, it summarizes that “And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house”. Whereupon, immediately, or at that very hour, the whole household was baptized.
 
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YahShuaMessiah:
On another thread, this was posted:

The word of God tells me:

Acts 16:30-31
“…what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved…”

Romans 10:9-10
“That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”

Now this is quite clear and I pose this question. That if any of these statements are lacking in anything regarding salvation, than both St. Luke and St. Paul have commited a lie to the receipients of their writtings. Think about that for a moment. The Romans would have received a lie. They did not have any other part of the New Testament at the time they received the letter from Paul. So, Paul would have being lieing to them about salvation.

I would like to know how the Catholic faith reconciles the comments of St. Luke and St. Paul. If they neglected anything in their response, they would be indeed lieing as to what is required to be saved.
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ummm… Just a thought here. But doesn’t Satan believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Doesn’t Satan believe that He rose from the dead? If simply believing these two things is all it takes to be saved, then one would expect to find Satan in Heaven. Therefore, maybe the ONE Church that has exsisted these past 2000 years is on to something. Maybe, just maybe, those churches that broke away in PROTEST from Christ’s Church will someday figure this out and return.😉
 
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Tietjen:
ummm… Just a thought here. But doesn’t Satan believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Doesn’t Satan believe that He rose from the dead? If simply believing these two things is all it takes to be saved, then one would expect to find Satan in Heaven. Therefore, maybe the ONE Church that has exsisted these past 2000 years is on to something. Maybe, just maybe, those churches that broke away in PROTEST from Christ’s Church will someday figure this out and return.😉
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Well - a noteable difference.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - give yourself up to him, take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into his keeping(meaning of the Greek translation “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ”

“Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus” - confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord (meaning of the Greek translation).

Satan has never acknowledge Jesus as his Lord nor entrusted himself into his keeping.
 
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YahShuaMessiah:
Well - a noteable difference.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - give yourself up to him, take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into his keeping(meaning of the Greek translation “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ”

“Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus” - confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord (meaning of the Greek translation).

Satan has never acknowledge Jesus as his Lord nor entrusted himself into his keeping.
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All of these sound like actions to me, not simply believing. Do you not think that Catholics do this? Of course we believe in Jesus.

But there are many other verses in the bible. You are taking a few out of context and not responding to the other verses that have been posted on this thread.
 
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YahShuaMessiah:
Well - a noteable difference.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - give yourself up to him, take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into his keeping(meaning of the Greek translation “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ”

“Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus” - confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord (meaning of the Greek translation).

Satan has never acknowledge Jesus as his Lord nor entrusted himself into his keeping.
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As has been mentioned, James 2:14-24 brings more into the equation. So, who is lieing then? Is it St. Paul and St. Luke? or is it James? My point to you is, stop looking at the tree and view the entire forrest if you wish to see the reality of what is in front of you. As I recall, Luther had a very hard time with the book of James as well. To the point of wanting to exclude it altogether!
 
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YahShuaMessiah:
I would like to know how the Catholic faith reconciles the comments of St. Luke and St. Paul. If they neglected anything in their response, they would be indeed lieing as to what is required to be saved.
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Didn’t Paul write both Acts and Romans? Plus many more.

Anyway Paul wrote many letters to different groups of people, the Romans, the Corrinthians, …

There is a reason why he did not send the same letter to the Romans as he his the Corinthians and so forth.

Acts 16:30-31
“…what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved…”

Yes we are to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, this was tested many times in the bible, ultimatley in the saying that this is trully trully my flesh and this trully trully my blood, true food and true drink forever who drinks my blood and eats my flesh shall be saved, or be welcomed to Heaven, many of the diciples could not handle this hard teaching and fell back to their own ways.

If you say you believe in Jesus Christ why do you not agree with this hard saying do you like the many disciples lack in faith?

Romans 10:9-10
“That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”

Again Paul here is writting to Pagan Rome, not Christian Rome, he was really focusing here on accepting Jesus Christ, and confessing their love, and repenting from their pagon ways…

Take a look at the opening of our Cathcism and you will find us confessing in the name Of Jesus Chrsit.

At each and every mass we do this in our Creed.

If you think if you just say Jesus forgive me of my sins, I believe in you and want to spend all eternity with you in Heaven… and boon you are saved and are going to heaven you are mistaken, to accept Jesus is to believe in him, to love him, to carry out his mission, which is love and charity.
 
YahShuaMessiah

For arguement sake lets say you are right.

Lets say that Paul nailed it right then and there, forget the rest of the book of Romans, forget the rest of the Bible.

After all Paul got it

Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in him.

And boom you are a christian and you are saved and when you die you will go to heaven.

Again for arguement sake lets agree.

My one question is this:

Why do you quote Paul in one verse from the entire book of Romans, and when it comes to his word it is truth, but when it comes to Jesus’ own words you your faith does not allow you to believe in his words when he says trully trully this is my flesh and my blood, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood will inherit the kingdom of God?

I have heard the argument that he was not talking literally, so why did he say trully trully, and in another book why did he say up until now I have taught in parables but now I tell you the truth, this bread is my flesh and this drink is my blood, whoever believeth in me will have eternal life.

Again why quote Paul over Jesus?
 
Texan in DC:
Take a look at the opening of our Cathcism and you will find us confessing in the name Of Jesus Chrsit.

At each and every mass we do this in our Creed.
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I recall being versed in “deprograming” individuals out of various cults.

ie…with JW’s…first you need to teach them to put away their watch tower magazines…wait. Yes, now I see…
 
YahShuaMessiah,

At our baptism, we (if adults) and our parents (on our behalf if children) renounce Satan and all his works and confess that Jesus is Lord and Savior. It is a public act by us. It is also the public action of the Church Community that receives us and lest you forget it is the Church that is the Pillar and Foundation, not a one liner from St. Paul to the exclusion of the balance of the rest of Holy Scripture.

Also, it is St. Paul that tells us that we eat and drink “death upon ourselves” if we approach the Eucharist unworthy. I think it was you in another post that downplayed the Eucharist (forgive me if I have you confused with another). If all we needed was the two lines you quote for our salvation, then too many other meaningless words were written that muddied the the Christian Way, many of which come from St Paul himself.

Also, Luke is credited with both the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles. Though seperated by the Gospel of John, they are companion pieces.
 
In response to one poster writing this

Originally Posted by Texan in DC
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Take a look at the opening of our Cathcism and you will find us confessing in the name Of Jesus Chrsit.

At each and every mass we do this in our Cree*
You wrote this:
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malachi_a_serva:
I recall being versed in “deprograming” individuals out of various cults.

ie…with JW’s…first you need to teach them to put away their watch tower magazines…wait. Yes, now I see…
Click to expand...
I might be misunderstanding you. Are you implying that you believe that Catholics are brainwashed?
 
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