Did the Catholic Church authorize the murder of Martin Luther?

[rinnie]

Edwin, you stated your major difficulty with the RCC is the difference between the members of the Church and the Church itself.

If you believe as Christ stated that he and the Church are one, you are sure to understand the difference between the conduct of the leaders and the truth of the RCC.

What I see you saying here is this, you want the leaders of the RCC to be perfect, because in your eyes if they are not perfect then the Church is also not perfect,

It does not work that way. Peter made mistakes, as long as God put human leaders in charge, and these human leaders have free will you are going to always have mistakes.

Where did God ever promise this, God promised us that the Pope has the power to speak with the Bishops or alone in the voice of God when he uses his name.

He told Peter what you bound is held bound and what you loose is loose, This is not only sin. He never said sin, he gave him the power to bound or loose anything. And he said, he was go with it.

No one in the RCC, can say they truly understand ever single one of the Church teachings, or at times can even say, they agree with them. Simply because you cannot truly agree with something, you truly do not understand. God knows this, and it is with prayer, that if we are lucky enough for our will, to be the will of God, this wisdom and understanding will come. If not, its not going to happen, and we have to rely on God to know what is best for us.

But unless I am mistaken, your block with the Church is, you cannot separate it from the leaders.

God told us to beware the devil is the master of disguise and will wear his clothes, but to not worry he will not prevail.

God told us he and his Church are ONE. I never heard him say he and his leaders are ONE.

I never heard him promise us a perfect Pope, or actually even a good Holy One, to be honest. He actually told his leaders to beware and careful. But even they can be wrong at times, and duped.

What he did tell us is the RCC is the fullness of truth, and that the Holy Spirit is leading and will continue to lead it until the end of age.

And pretty much as long as the Holy Spirit leads it the devil will never prevail, he did say there will be trials before the Church, but not to worry the Holy Spirit will not fail. Even when it may look that way, the Church will prevail.

 

[spina1953]

Edwin, you stated your major difficulty with the RCC is the difference between the members of the Church and the Church itself.

If you believe as Christ stated that he and the Church are one, you are sure to understand the difference between the conduct of the leaders and the truth of the RCC.

What I see you saying here is this, you want the leaders of the RCC to be perfect, because in your eyes if they are not perfect then the Church is also not perfect,

It does not work that way. Peter made mistakes, as long as God put human leaders in charge, and these human leaders have free will you are going to always have mistakes.

Where did God ever promise this, God promised us that the Pope has the power to speak with the Bishops or alone in the voice of God when he uses his name.

He told Peter what you bound is held bound and what you loose is loose, This is not only sin. He never said sin, he gave him the power to bound or loose anything. And he said, he was go with it.

No one in the RCC, can say they truly understand ever single one of the Church teachings, or at times can even say, they agree with them. Simply because you cannot truly agree with something, you truly do not understand. God knows this, and it is with prayer, that if we are lucky enough for our will, to be the will of God, this wisdom and understanding will come. If not, its not going to happen, and we have to rely on God to know what is best for us.

But unless I am mistaken, your block with the Church is, you cannot separate it from the leaders.

God told us to beware the devil is the master of disguise and will wear his clothes, but to not worry he will not prevail.

God told us he and his Church are ONE. I never heard him say he and his leaders are ONE.

I never heard him promise us a perfect Pope, or actually even a good Holy One, to be honest. He actually told his leaders to beware and careful. But even they can be wrong at times, and duped.

What he did tell us is the RCC is the fullness of truth, and that the Holy Spirit is leading and will continue to lead it until the end of age.

And pretty much as long as the Holy Spirit leads it the devil will never prevail, he did say there will be trials before the Church, but not to worry the Holy Spirit will not fail. Even when it may look that way, the Church will prevail.

Hi rinnie: great post!

 

[rinnie]

From Exsurge Domine:

In virtue of our pastoral office committed to us by the divine favor we can under no circumstances tolerate or overlook any longer the pernicious poison of the above errors without disgrace to the Christian religion and injury to orthodox faith. Some of these errors we have decided to include in the present document; their substance is as follows:

…

1. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.

The clear implication is that there are times when it is permissible to burn heretics.

As stated there is a clear implication that there are times it is permissible to burn heretics.

Here is the problem that keeps bothering me, agreed a clear implication, which means a conclusion that CAN be drawn but cannot be EXPLICITY STATED.

It seems to me people are say a conclusion HAS been and is explicitly stated.

That what bothers me, my question is, can anyone, or has anyone stated beyond a shadow of a doubt that when the Pope made this comment, he meant what people draw from it?

And if there is no Concrete proof, how is one individuals thought anymore true then another.

As Edwin stated, he refuses to debate, its history or he does not want to hear what I have to say. And that’s okay, I still love and respect and even understand what he is saying.

But what I see is this, NO ONE has ever stated that the Pope has ever said by saying this he agrees with the burning of heretics, only he condemned Luther for stating that it goes against the Spirit.

How can anyone know why he did this, and what his mindset was.

Again if this is perfectly defended by the Pope that said it and defined, I would love, truly need to be led to that information. So I can truly read and study it. Again as in Edwin terms, I need this history.