Did the Pope really?...

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And this prove what? So what if he kissed the Quran? Did he made a profession of faith that the Quran is the infallible word of God? Nope.
For many, many many Muslims he might as well have. I’m suprised I don’t see stories of his conversions (many such stories float around on many figures. Neil Armstrong had to come out of his usual seculsion to deny them, as Muslims were using the (false) story of his conversion in apologetics and propoganda).
 
For many, many many Muslims he might as well have. I’m suprised I don’t see stories of his conversions (many such stories float around on many figures. Neil Armstrong had to come out of his usual seculsion to deny them, as Muslims were using the (false) story of his conversion in apologetics and propoganda).
It is the distortion of truth. A photography teacher once told me, “A photograph can say a million things.”
 
Yes, it was the Qu’ran that he kissed. Even if it wasn’t, St. Paul’s words would not apply since they are not fellow believers.
That’s the kind of attitude that - dare I say - a muslim would have.
 
No, but it can confirm them in it, and has already caused immense problems for the Christians (whether in communion with the Vatican or not) among the Muslims.
With regards to some of the muslims who post in these forums, they are already confirmed in their faith… and it had nothing to do with the Pope.
 
That’s the kind of attitude that - dare I say - a muslim would have.
Are you sure?

2 John 1:9-11: “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.”
 
Are you sure?

2 John 1:9-11: “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.”
That’s not fair; Most muslims live in oppression and have never had to the opportunities to learn about the “teaching of Christ”.
 
That’s not fair; Most muslims live in oppression and have never had to the opportunities to learn about the “teaching of Christ”.
Actually, they get teachings about Christ right from the Qu’ran; that the Christians believe He is the Son of God and that He is really just a prophet who was never crucified.

Regardless, the kiss of peace is only given to brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
fatherjoe.wordpress.com/instructions/debates/anti-catholicism/pope-john-paul-ii-kisses-the-koran/
… Let us look at the situation. The Pope has longed to go to Iraq in order to walk in the footsteps of Abraham, claimed as a father in faith by Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Pope John Paul II … strives for a new understanding between peoples where dialogue, tolerance, and cooperation will replace anathemas, persecution, and rivalry. Abraham is an integral figure of unity in turning things around politically. Looking at the incident in question, the Holy Father received a delegation that included the Shiite Imam of Khadum Mosque, the Sunni President of the council that operates the Iraqi Islamic Bank, and a member of the Iraqi Ministry of Religion. …
The Koran was a gift to him from the delegation. Islamic peoples are not casual in the giving of gifts. It represents the giver. They knew perfectly well that the Pope was a Catholic Christian, but they gave to him that which was regarded as most important in their life, their own holy book. Thus, at the end of the audience, the Pope showed his deep appreciation to this intimate self-donation, by bowing and kissing the Koran as a sign of respect. Such a gesture ran totally against the grain of crusades and condemnations.** It did not mean that the Pope accepted all that was in the book,** **only that his love for the Muslim people, and the Iraqis in particular, was genuine. **He makes the first move, not in the capitulation of our faith, but in the recognition that the followers of Jesus and those who cherish Mohammed should not be engaged in name-calling, or worse, killing each other. The Pope appreciated the suffering of the Iraqi people, particularly the women and children. It showed he did not look down upon them but had a genuine respect for them within the brotherhood of man.
Note: Bold, underline & italics is mine.

The media now lives comfortably in “sound-bites”.
Yet the truth of a situation is so often much more complex.
The only affect this picture of John Paul II should have is to compel us to understand the complexities as John Paul II understood them.

Go with Love, Go with God
 
I can’t believe the apologists spin on this act? My heart sank a notch when I viewed that picture … I really don’t know what to say
 
I can’t believe the apologists spin on this act? My heart sank a notch when I viewed that picture … I really don’t know what to say
There is, nor was there any “spin” on it. It was a sign of peace. He, the Pope was a man of peace…not a man of division.
 
There is, nor was there any “spin” on it. It was a sign of peace. He, the Pope was a man of peace…not a man of division.
He could have kissed the shiek on both cheeks – that would have certainly been fine. But to kiss the Quran … it honestly doesn’t seem right to me??
 
He could have kissed the shiek on both cheeks – that would have certainly been fine. But to kiss the Quran … it honestly doesn’t seem right to me??
Like I said in another reply. At least the Pope did not declare the Quran to be dogmatic. He kissed it out of respect.
 
Like I said in another reply. At least the Pope did not declare the Quran to be dogmatic. He kissed it out of respect.
What part of the Qu’ran is there to respect? Would Joshua have kissed a holy artifact of the Canaanites?
 
What part of the Qu’ran is there to respect? Would Joshua have kissed a holy artifact of the Canaanites?
I think the fellow human beings who adhere to the Qur’an deserve respect. At least that is what our Lord said:

Remember the verse:
“Thou shalt respect the Muslims when they come.”
LOL

I am indifferent about this topic.
I just wanted to make a remark!

And I’m spent…
 
I think the fellow human beings who adhere to the Qur’an deserve respect. At least that is what our Lord said:

Remember the verse:
“Thou shalt respect the Muslims when they come.”
LOL

I am indifferent about this topic.
I just wanted to make a remark!

And I’m spent…
LOL…Respecting a person is different than showing respect to a document that denies Christ, calls His redeemed people polytheists, and teaches a doctrine of demons.
 
LOL…Respecting a person is different than showing respect to a document that denies Christ, calls His redeemed people polytheists, and teaches a doctrine of demons.
I agree…
Who knows what in the world was going through his head when this happened. Was it to gain favoritism?

I kind of look at it as how we are supposed to love our enemies though. The Muslims also call us polytheists, etc, and we are still supposed to love and respect them despite this.

So I guess I kind of see this in parallel to the Qur’an. Kind of like, loving evil enough to kiss it.
 
I agree…
Who knows what in the world was going through his head when this happened. Was it to gain favoritism?

I kind of look at it as how we are supposed to love our enemies though. The Muslims also call us polytheists, etc, and we are still supposed to love and respect them despite this.

So I guess I kind of see this in parallel to the Qur’an. Kind of like, loving evil enough to kiss it.
Well, I don’t think we’re to love evil. We’re to love evil people (because we are, too).

I don’t assign any nefarious purpose to JP II when he did this. It’s just part of a long line of ecumenical love fests that way too many Christians have been engaging in. He should have told the sheik to repent and believe the gospel.
 
Well, I don’t think we’re to love evil. We’re to love evil people (because we are, too).

I don’t assign any nefarious purpose to JP II when he did this. It’s just part of a long line of ecumenical love fests that way too many Christians have been engaging in. He should have told the sheik to repent and believe the gospel.
Interesting point…
Though, sometimes I like to think I love evil itself. I think it is so cute the Devil actually thinks he can one-up God! He knows his Creator and still has that child-like mentality that it is all about him.

Agreed on the repent and believe statement. I think Pope Benedict XVI more than made up for that. Maybe even further on the spectrum.
 
Actually, they get teachings about Christ right from the Qu’ran; that the Christians believe He is the Son of God and that He is really just a prophet who was never crucified.
Oh yeah? So essentially you have just told us that the Quran is an inspired writing that offers the Gospel of Christ?

I know of no n-C faith community that teaches that and it is certainly not a Catholic teaching.
Regardless, the kiss of peace is only given to brothers and sisters in Christ.
Irrelevant, but the fact is that JP the Great did a good thing that some people want to misconstrue in an effort to bash him and the Catholic Church.

Compared to the huge myriad of doctrinal errors that the modern post reformation step children teach to this day, I’d assert that the pope kissing the Quran is actually small peanuts.

If people of all faiths dropped the rhetoric and polemics and actually dialoged with others in Christ-like humility, I suspect a lot of this kind of foolish discussion would evaporate like a mist in the wind.

No one seems to consider that Our Lord Jesus Christ did something similar when He converted the Samaritan woman at the well.
 
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