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C
Church_Militant
Guest
I don’t see any of your particular faith community even talking to the Moslems in any meaningful way.
In my experience most n-C evangelicals are more a source of emotionally inflammatory anti-Islamic polemics than anything even remotely like the Gospel of Christ.
Let me know when you are ready to fly over and preach your message to that sheik, I’ll be watching the news.
The fact is that we don’t know what discussion occurred between John Paul II and that leader, so to judge is to judge in ignorance. I wonder how anyone with a single working eyeball could possibly get the faintest impression that the Pope was anything but a devout Catholic.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Right…so then you believe that load of hooey?
It’s on you then. But then, like I said, I don’t see you or any other n-Cs even making any sincere and significant effort to reach the Moslems. It’s easier to find fault with us Catholics, than to preach the Gospel.
Oh well…
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
E
elts1956
Guest
This is closest to the truth than any other post I have read so far. The Qu’ran was a gift. Pope John Paul II kissed it in respect for the gift which to some is holy.Every time I see my Muslim friends, I kiss them. It is a sign of friendship.
Maybe JPII kissed the qu’ran to show respect and friendship towards Muslims.
E
elts1956
Guest
Every time I see my Muslim friends, I kiss them. It is a sign of friendship.
Maybe JPII kissed the qu’ran to show respect and friendship towards Muslims.
He kissed Judas on the cheek.
E
elts1956
Guest
Joshua lived in another time and era. I really don’t believe he was running around promoting peace and understanding.
E
elts1956
Guest
May I quote you? If people of all faiths dropped the rhetoric and polemics and actually dialoged with others in Christ-like humility, I suspect a lot of this kind of foolish discussion would evaporate like a mist in the wind.I don’t see any of your particular faith community even talking to the Moslems in any meaningful way.
In my experience most n-C evangelicals are more a source of emotionally inflammatory anti-Islamic polemics than anything even remotely like the Gospel of Christ.
Let me know when you are ready to fly over and preach your message to that sheik, I’ll be watching the news.
The fact is that we don’t know what discussion occurred between John Paul II and that leader, so to judge is to judge in ignorance. I wonder how anyone with a single working eyeball could possibly get the faintest impression that the Pope was anything but a devout Catholic.
A
adstrinity
Guest
What was the question? Has it been answered? Anyway, he was thankful for the present he got from the representatives of the country in which he was?!! What a horrible example to set. Well at least this was the only sin this man ever made.
A
Auriel
Guest
Non Catholic here. I cannot believe I am about to take up for the Pope for something that took place back in 1999! 
I saved a lot of information I had gathered because of the freaking out people did.
Knowing a little about Islam and the culture/traditions/etiquette of both Muslim and Non Muslims living in the Middle East (and here) it made perfect sense to me and I was very touched when this story first broke. BTW, I am not a Muslim either. Just related to a few and grew up around them.
In their culture,whether Christian or Muslim, you would never visit someone or receive guests without gifts. If one is poor the gift does not have to be expensive. The gift is said to represent the Giver. It should be something to remember them by. It is a major no no and insulting to look down on a gift or return it. Their Prophet even said they should give gifts, it was not the same as charity, it was akin to giving love. That extended to visiting and receiving non Muslims as well. And one is always gracious. The Pope was very gracious and showed that he loved the people of Iraq and was honored by their gift. I do not understand why anyone would find that offensive. I am not a bible expert but did not Jesus say…“Come and let us reason together”?
In their culture proper manners, even if you do not like someone, is very important. In Islam those closest to Allah are the ones who have good manners. In fact, this may seem silly to you guys but I know Muslims who were very saddened by the death of Mr Rogers from the PBS show, some even shed a few tears for a man who was the ultimate example of practicing what he preached and teaching respect and manners. Some said a few prayers. Others commented that he could teach them a thing or to as well and that they could use another Mr Rogers for their children
Another fact many were not aware of is that the man in the picture that was published standing to the right of him was Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon Raphael I Bidawid. Over 1 million Christians live in Iraq. The majority of those are Catholic. They teach, hold government positions, etc…Christians had more freedom, not like in Saudi Arabia. Ironically it was after Saddam’s fall that attacks on them have increased.
Here is a quote from Raphael I Bidawid on this historical moment:
**
It is known that Pope John Paul II (bio - news) has often voiced a desire to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the common father of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. For the Pope, Abraham is a figure who helps the unity of believers to overcome political divisions. On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi’ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.
At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu’ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam. **
I saved a lot of information I had gathered because of the freaking out people did.Knowing a little about Islam and the culture/traditions/etiquette of both Muslim and Non Muslims living in the Middle East (and here) it made perfect sense to me and I was very touched when this story first broke. BTW, I am not a Muslim either. Just related to a few and grew up around them.
In their culture,whether Christian or Muslim, you would never visit someone or receive guests without gifts. If one is poor the gift does not have to be expensive. The gift is said to represent the Giver. It should be something to remember them by. It is a major no no and insulting to look down on a gift or return it. Their Prophet even said they should give gifts, it was not the same as charity, it was akin to giving love. That extended to visiting and receiving non Muslims as well. And one is always gracious. The Pope was very gracious and showed that he loved the people of Iraq and was honored by their gift. I do not understand why anyone would find that offensive. I am not a bible expert but did not Jesus say…“Come and let us reason together”?
In their culture proper manners, even if you do not like someone, is very important. In Islam those closest to Allah are the ones who have good manners. In fact, this may seem silly to you guys but I know Muslims who were very saddened by the death of Mr Rogers from the PBS show, some even shed a few tears for a man who was the ultimate example of practicing what he preached and teaching respect and manners. Some said a few prayers. Others commented that he could teach them a thing or to as well and that they could use another Mr Rogers for their children
Another fact many were not aware of is that the man in the picture that was published standing to the right of him was Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon Raphael I Bidawid. Over 1 million Christians live in Iraq. The majority of those are Catholic. They teach, hold government positions, etc…Christians had more freedom, not like in Saudi Arabia. Ironically it was after Saddam’s fall that attacks on them have increased.
Here is a quote from Raphael I Bidawid on this historical moment:
**
It is known that Pope John Paul II (bio - news) has often voiced a desire to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the common father of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. For the Pope, Abraham is a figure who helps the unity of believers to overcome political divisions. On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi’ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.
At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu’ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam. **
S
Sam_777
Guest
E
elts1956
Guest
Ariel, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. I hope your explanation helps some get over their fear of Pope John Paul II having converted to Islam.Non Catholic here. I cannot believe I am about to take up for the Pope for something that took place back in 1999!
Knowing a little about Islam and the culture/traditions/etiquette of both Muslim and Non Muslims living in the Middle East (and here) it made perfect sense to me and I was very touched when this story first broke. BTW, I am not a Muslim either. Just related to a few and grew up around them.
In their culture,whether Christian or Muslim, you would never visit someone or receive guests without gifts. If one is poor the gift does not have to be expensive. The gift is said to represent the Giver. It should be something to remember them by. It is a major no no and insulting to look down on a gift or return it. Their Prophet even said they should give gifts, it was not the same as charity, it was akin to giving love. That extended to visiting and receiving non Muslims as well. And one is always gracious. The Pope was very gracious and showed that he loved the people of Iraq and was honored by their gift. I do not understand why anyone would find that offensive. I am not a bible expert but did not Jesus say…“Come and let us reason together”?
In their culture proper manners, even if you do not like someone, is very important. In Islam those closest to Allah are the ones who have good manners. In fact, this may seem silly to you guys but I know Muslims who were very saddened by the death of Mr Rogers from the PBS show, some even shed a few tears for a man who was the ultimate example of practicing what he preached and teaching respect and manners. Some said a few prayers. Others commented that he could teach them a thing or to as well and that they could use another Mr Rogers for their children
Another fact many were not aware of is that the man in the picture that was published standing to the right of him was Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon Raphael I Bidawid. Over 1 million Christians live in Iraq. The majority of those are Catholic. They teach, hold government positions, etc…Christians had more freedom, not like in Saudi Arabia. Ironically it was after Saddam’s fall that attacks on them have increased.
Here is a quote from Raphael I Bidawid on this historical moment:
**
It is known that Pope John Paul II (bio - news) has often voiced a desire to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the common father of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. For the Pope, Abraham is a figure who helps the unity of believers to overcome political divisions. On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi’ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.
At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu’ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam. **
He who has ears, (also heart) let him hear (and feel) 
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
The photo is just Pope kissing the Quran. It is nothing to be a big deal about. Besides, he did not declare the Quran to be infallible.
N
notacat
Guest
Can you give me the Scripture for this? I find where Judas says he will kiss Jesus and also where Jesus says that Judas will betray him.
*And He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. “The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” And Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” He *said to him, “You have said it yourself.” *(Mat 26:23-25 NAS77)
It seems to me that Jesus made it very clear what was going on.
*But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” *(Luk 22:48 NAS77)
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
Christ comes not to bring peace but a sword. Figuratively, of course. We are to be salt, not honey.
I
inJESUS
Guest
is there anyone who thought this?I hope your explanation helps some get over their fear of Pope John Paul II having converted to Islam.
I
inJESUS
Guest
it says Mary is a chaste chosen servant of God…it says Jesus is the Word of God.
One can put an intention in his heart and behave accordingly.
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
The Qu’ran doesn’t say Jesus is the Word of God, it says He is a word of God, because God said “Be” and God created Him. This would be equivalent to finding the teachings of Arius respectable.
H
historyb
Guest
Yes JP2 did kiss the koran, that and other things he did make me rethink being Catholic for awhile.
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
I can understand how it would have affected you. It was probably just a bad judgment on his part and is evidence of the utter goofiness of the modern ecumenical movement. I loved JP II as a leader and voice of Christianity, but I did find the constant apologizing for every fault of the past a bit disingenuous.
When it ends up in kissing a book that blasphemes the Lord of the heavens and the earth, it wouldn’t be a time to rethink being Catholic, but making sure other Catholics don’t fall into that sort of ecumenical jibberish.
It doesn’t reflect anything negative about Catholicism as a whole. We had to deal with a similar situation. Back in 2001 after the 911 attacks, one of our LCMS pastors took part in an ecumenical prayer service composed of Hindus, Jews, and Muslims.
Utter heresy.
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