Did the Pope really?...

[elts1956]

Can you give me the Scripture for this? I find where Judas says he will kiss Jesus and also where Jesus says that Judas will betray him.

*And He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. “The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” And Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” He *said to him, “You have said it yourself.” *(Mat 26:23-25 NAS77)

It seems to me that Jesus made it very clear what was going on.

*But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” *(Luk 22:48 NAS77)

WELL!! MY BIBLE SAYS… Sorry about that, I got the cheek kissers mixed up.

 

[inJESUS]

The Qu’ran doesn’t say Jesus is the

Word of God, it says He is a word of God, Muhammad used both.

The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word (kalimatuhu) that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him (roohun minhu). 4:171

You can call Muhammad an Arian and Gnostic, but still he managed to incorporate into his book some orthodox teachings like the virgin birth and the above verse.

 

[brkn1]

The photo is just Pope kissing the Quran. It is nothing to be a big deal about. Besides, he did not declare the Quran to be infallible.

So, the shocking picture of a pope “legitimising” the Quran is no “big deal”?

That picture happens every day now through the media. Muslims feel that even a pope respects a book that preaches against Jesus being the Son of God etc. They are comforted and encouraged in their false beliefs by that kiss.

I find the excuses for that act to be nothing more than the old “ends justifying the means” excuse. Abortionists use the same sort of excuse too.

 

[adstrinity]

I find the excuses for that act to be nothing more than the old “ends justifying the means” excuse. Abortionists use the same sort of excuse too.

Oh stop.

The picture is used daily throughout the Muslim media? Really? They have nothing better to do than report on this picture? News doesn’t happen in the Muslim world apparently.

Do you know that they feel this validates their beliefs or are you projecting your own biases or gossip on the situation? Knowing middle eastern culture, it looks as though he is very appreciative of the gift.

The appreciation of a gift to an abortionist is a weak analogy, but, I’d like to see you carry it out as a logic exercise. Please clarify and explain.

 

[brkn1]

Oh stop.

The picture is used daily throughout the Muslim media? Really? They have nothing better to do than report on this picture? News doesn’t happen in the Muslim world apparently.

Do you know that they feel this validates their beliefs or are you projecting your own biases or gossip on the situation? Knowing middle eastern culture, it looks as though he is very appreciative of the gift.

The appreciation of a gift to an abortionist is a weak analogy, but, I’d like to see you carry it out as a logic exercise. Please clarify and explain.

The Quran is an antiChrist book by the apostle John’s definition. It denies the Deity of Christ. The pope kissing an antiChrist book is a form of agreement with what is contained in that book. It goes beyond compromise to kiss that book. It is evil for a true Christian to support anything that denies Christ’s Divinity. You might not understand that idea of rejecting compromise to get along with the world. The pope gave credence to that book with his kiss and that is evil.

Another mental compromise, that some do, is to say that it is OK to kill a fetus to “benefit” the mother. The analogy has to do with using evil to “bring about some good”. I could carry the analogy further with the killing of heretics to “defend” the church. The ends justifying the means (even if evil) would be what I am getting at.

 

[adstrinity]

Thank you for explaining your logic of the link.

The pope kissing an antiChrist book is a form of agreement with what is contained in that book.

No it’s not.

But, thinking about this, I was going to say, “The Pope would probably kiss a box of condoms if it was given to him as a gift.” And, he may have to show his appreciation…but, seeing as how that may lead to scandal, I think I understand the objection now.

 

[Chatty_Cathy]

If the Pope is infalible in matters of faith, makes you wonder why he did it? Maybe he understood or knew something we don’t.

We kiss the Pope’s ring out of respect, it doesn’t mean we worship him. Before you sit in judgement of him because he did it, maybe you should wonder why and how this fits into the whole scheme of things.

 

[sola_scriptura]

If the Pope is infalible in matters of faith, makes you wonder why he did it? Maybe he understood or knew something we don’t.

We kiss the Pope’s ring out of respect, it doesn’t mean we worship him. Before you sit in judgement of him because he did it, maybe you should wonder why and how this fits into the whole scheme of things.

Was this really a matter of faith? I don’t think infallibility comes into play here (I could be wrong – but I think a Pope must officially invoke infallibility). I think this act was probably a mistake – but the more I think about the less I care about it. Even as a Protestant I think John Paul was a great guy ---- just not infallible in anything. This doesn’t change my respect for the man quite frankly. I’m sure his heart was in the right place; but who knows?

Meetings like this I’m sure are prearranged and highly organized by the old guard bureaucrats in the Vatican – so perhaps the kiss was planned; but again who knows.

I do think the Vatican is cognizant of all its treasure & has a unique fear of Arab extremists – so maybe that had something to with it. I guess as Protestants with no tangible treasures to protect, no real headquarters, etc. we are free to deal with these people in a straight forward way (you know – the Army, Air Force, and Marines).

 

[mark_a]

Then they go on and pray that the next Pope (current Pope) has the “veil” lifted from his eyes and comes to their correct faith with Christains.
.

I’m guessing Pope Benedict settled that 2 years ago at Regensburg.

 

[elts1956]

So, the shocking picture of a pope “legitimising” the Quran is no “big deal”?

That picture happens every day now through the media. Muslims feel that even a pope respects a book that preaches against Jesus being the Son of God etc. They are comforted and encouraged in their false beliefs by that kiss.

I find the excuses for that act to be nothing more than the old “ends justifying the means” excuse. Abortionists use the same sort of excuse too.

Read Darkknight # 28 When in Rome do as the Romans do (SOCIALLY

What an odd post.

I hardly think that a young boy kissing his mother is the same as the Pope kissing a so-called “holy book” who’s author is the Devil?

I agree - not one of his finer moments.

I know that the Pope is considered Christ’s representative here on earth. Is that only when he is speaking infallibly?

I ask this because I find it impossible to imagine Jesus Christ kissing the Qu’ran or any “holy book” of a false religion.

 

[elts1956]

I can’t believe the apologists spin on this act? My heart sank a notch when I viewed that picture … I really don’t know what to say

Read Darkknight # 28 When in Rome do as the Romans do (SOCIALLY

 

[elts1956]

I can’t believe the apologists spin on this act? My heart sank a notch when I viewed that picture … I really don’t know what to say

Was this really a matter of faith? I don’t think infallibility comes into play here (I could be wrong – but I think a Pope must officially invoke infallibility). I think this act was probably a mistake – but the more I think about the less I care about it. Even as a Protestant I think John Paul was a great guy ---- just not infallible in anything. This doesn’t change my respect for the man quite frankly. I’m sure his heart was in the right place; but who knows?

Meetings like this I’m sure are prearranged and highly organized by the old guard bureaucrats in the Vatican – so perhaps the kiss was planned; but again who knows.

I do think the Vatican is cognizant of all its treasure & has a unique fear of Arab extremists – so maybe that had something to with it. I guess as Protestants with no tangible treasures to protect, no real headquarters, etc. we are free to deal with these people in a straight forward way (you know – the Army, Air Force, and Marines).

Read Darkknight # 28 When in Rome do as the Romans do (SOCIALLY

 

[estesbob]

Much ado about nothing. The people who seem to care the most about this are people who dont particulalry like the Pope in the first place.

 

[elts1956]

I agree…
Who knows what in the world was going through his head when this happened. Was it to gain favoritism?

I kind of look at it as how we are supposed to love our enemies though. The Muslims also call us polytheists, etc, and we are still supposed to love and respect them despite this.

So I guess I kind of see this in parallel to the Qur’an. Kind of like, loving evil enough to kiss it.

Read Darkknight # 28 When in Rome do as the Romans do (SOCIALLY) Another poster saying s/he had interaction with Muslim communities explained that if John Paul II had not shown respect for that which was a GIFT from them , he would have insulted them. He basically was not kissing the Qui’ran but the GIFT of the Qu’ran.

 

[Dauphin]

If the Pope is infalible in matters of faith, makes you wonder why he did it? Maybe he understood or knew something we don’t.

This has nothing to do with Papal infallibility, which is an extraordinary act of the magisterium which is rarely employed. The Pope isn’t impeccable, so he can sin and set bad examples.

It’s true that the Pope made a terrible mistake and caused grave scandal in kissing this book. There’s no excuse that can be made. However, he wouldn’t be the first Pope to commit sin and cause scandal - that was St. Peter in denying Our Lord three times.

 

[Dauphin]

Read Darkknight # 28 When in Rome do as the Romans do (SOCIALLY) Another poster saying s/he had interaction with Muslim communities explained that if John Paul II had not shown respect for that which was a GIFT from them , he would have insulted them. He basically was not kissing the Qui’ran but the GIFT of the Qu’ran.

That’s not good enough. The fact remains that the Vicar of Christ kissed a heretical and satanic book, which is an immense scandal. The fact that it caused such scandal and confusion and misinterpretation is enough to say that the Pope was wrong to do this.

In any event, he should have refused the gift, which was insulting and provocative in the first place. It’s akin to presenting him with a copy of “The God Delusion” or a Jack Chick tract.

 

[historyb]

Read Darkknight # 28 When in Rome do as the Romans do (SOCIALLY) Another poster saying s/he had interaction with Muslim communities explained that if John Paul II had not shown respect for that which was a GIFT from them , he would have insulted them. He basically was not kissing the Qui’ran but the GIFT of the Qu’ran.

Talk about a stretch

 

[elts1956]

Talk about a stretch

Find the post and read it. I didn’t do it justice, just a poor stretch of an interpretation.

 

[elts1956]

Talk about a stretch

That’s not good enough. The fact remains that the Vicar of Christ kissed a heretical and satanic book, which is an immense scandal. The fact that it caused such scandal and confusion and misinterpretation is enough to say that the Pope was wrong to do this.

In any event, he should have refused the gift, which was insulting and provocative in the first place. It’s akin to presenting him with a copy of “The God Delusion” or a Jack Chick tract.

Do you insult the host when in that person’s home?

 

[elts1956]

No, but it can confirm them in it, and has already caused immense problems for the Christians (whether in communion with the Vatican or not) among the Muslims.

Everyone needs to read the whole story and understand the meaning of it before making a judgement. Unfortunately not many take the time to do this.