P
Pieman333272
Guest
Somebody I was talking to claimed this, since none of the disciples were there, even if eyewitnesses wrote the Gospels they would have made this up. Is this an accurate explanation?
Did the writers of Scripture make up Jesus' conversation with Pilate?
- Status
H
HelenRose
Guest
Remember that Jesus spoke to and taught the disciples after the resurrection. I am sure there were a lot questions asked and answered at that time.
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Jesus was with the Apostles for 40 days between the Resurrection and the Ascension. I’m sure they had lots of questions.
po18guy
Well-known member
Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answering, said to him: “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.”
If Jesus as Son of God was revealed directly to Peter, were not many other things also revealed?
John 16:13
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.”
Jesus’ conversation with Pilate is included in “all truth”
And Jesus answering, said to him: “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.”
If Jesus as Son of God was revealed directly to Peter, were not many other things also revealed?
John 16:13
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.”
Jesus’ conversation with Pilate is included in “all truth”
T
TimothyH
Guest
It’s not made up.
Even if is not literal but allegorical, even if the conversation never actually took place, it is still part of what God inspired the writers of Sacred Scripture to write. It is still part of God’s inspired word, his revealed truth.
***Jesus said to him, “I am **the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” When he had said this, he again went out to the Jews and said to them, “I find no guilt in him. (John 18:38)*
-Tim-
Even if is not literal but allegorical, even if the conversation never actually took place, it is still part of what God inspired the writers of Sacred Scripture to write. It is still part of God’s inspired word, his revealed truth.
***Jesus said to him, “I am **the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” When he had said this, he again went out to the Jews and said to them, “I find no guilt in him. (John 18:38)*
-Tim-
P
patrick457
Guest
Question. So does that mean that even if we suppose that the Johannine conversation isn’t literally 100% factual but is more allegorical/symbolic, the contents still are the truth?
P
patrick457
Guest
I’m supposing this is related to John Dominic Crossan’s idea of the Passion narratives being prophecy historicized. Crossan says that the male disciples, having ran away, do not know anything about what happened after Jesus was arrested - they only happen to know that He was crucified since the women were kind (and brave) enough to check things from afar. Now because they believed Jesus fulfilled various OT prophecies, they assumed that this was the case for His death as well, and so they crafted a story drawing upon said prophecies. For example, they read Psalm 22 and assume, “Well, Jesus might have had His clothes used as gambling bets, was mocked and cried out to God before dying; He must have.” In this way, prophecy was transformed into (fictional) history.
The main problem with this theory is, using Crossan’s rationale, how do we really know that the male disciples fled? Crossan looks suspiciously upon many elements in the Passion narratives which allude to the OT but he neglects to see that the male disciples fleeing and the women watching from afar are also presented in the narrative as the fulfillment of a prophecy and a Scriptural allusion. Also, would the disciples actually be content by fabricating a story? Wouldn’t there be a desire to know what really happened?
E
Evan
Guest
There may have been witnesses among the Roman soldiers, or Pilate may have related the conversation to his wife. Then passed on the to the community through soldiers who converted or Pilate’s wife or her servants.
There were no cell phones, so people talked to one another.
There were no cell phones, so people talked to one another.
T
thistle
Guest
I can’t remember where I copied this from but an interesting thought if Pilate spoke to Jesus in Latin:
Pilate speaking in Latin, “QUID EST VERITAS?” (“What is truth?”). An anagram of this is “EST VIR QUI ADEST”–“It is the man who stands before you.”
Pilate speaking in Latin, “QUID EST VERITAS?” (“What is truth?”). An anagram of this is “EST VIR QUI ADEST”–“It is the man who stands before you.”
J
johnnyjones
Guest
The bible was penned under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. God wrote it, it happened.
W
wiggbuggie
Guest
you also have to remember john and mary stood before Jesus and the cross so they witnessed everything so in truth not all of the 12 left. As for the conversation between pilate and Jesus it was an outdoor open debate with the sanhendrin and roman officials there were lots of witnesses to the conversation.
P
patrick457
Guest
Well, I could see some people bring out the old tired argument that “oh, John isn’t really as historically reliable as the synoptics,” blah blah blah.
And Jesus and Pilate’s conversation actually occurs inside the praetorium in the narrative - the priests couldn’t enter it due to the danger of contracting ritual impurity.
J
Jeremiah1278
Guest
After this conversation, doesn’t Pilate go back to the crowd to discuss amnesty? Barrabas or Jesus? When presenting the two to the crowd, I wonder if Pilate recounted any of Jesus’ testimony and Barrabas’s offenses to give the crowd something to vote on. But that’s just total speculation. The 40 days of teaching his disciples after the resurrection sounds like a better answer 
M
Mintaka
Guest
You guys do realize that, after Cicero’s secretary Tyro invented shorthand, all Roman judicial stuff was written down by a court stenographer. Since Pilate was big on covering his butt, you can be sure that he wanted an official record to do it for him.
Jesus was answering the magistrate’s official questions, in an official court. The disciples probably just went to the local Roman records office and looked it up.
That’s also how we have most martyr accounts, btw.
Jesus was answering the magistrate’s official questions, in an official court. The disciples probably just went to the local Roman records office and looked it up.
That’s also how we have most martyr accounts, btw.
T
TimothyH
Guest
Sorry I didn’t see earlier this Patrick. I would answer yes.
Every scripture has a moral sense which points to how we are to live our lives as Christians, an alegorical sense which points to Christ, and a eschatological sense which points to our end state. Each of these senses rely on the literal sense - the meaning of the words on the page and what the author was trying to communicate - to teach us some truth.
If’ I’m standing in a tropical downpour and state that it’s raining cats and dogs, I have spoken truth. The literal sense is that it is a figure of speech from the 20th century which means that it is raining heavily. The conclusions we draw are that I am probably wet, there may be flooding, and that there is probably a storm.
See what I’m saying?
-Tim-
- Status