Did you see the opening mass for WYD?

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Not a music major, just music educated and can both read and write it. Melody is the correct word. The notes on the music sheet form the melody, while the words below are the lyrics. The melody may be using one of the ancient modes, rather than the modern major and minor scales we use today. Many of the modes have fallen out of use, some musicians, especially those in the folk and world music genre’s, compose melodies using ancient modes, or use existing ones with new lyrics. Bob Dylan was one musician who did this, Paul Simon would be another. Some of the most beautiful and haunting melodies come from one of the ancient modes. Other modes can be very simple and austere. And yet others can evoke an aura of mystery. These music traditions are something today’s youth are rarely exposed to, being that more schools are removing music education from their curriculum. The Church is rich in ancient music that makes use of these ancient modes. This is great news, to hear that these musical traditions are being incorporated into WYD and the liturgy. What an enriching experience for those attending. :clapping:
What was beautiful about it to one who is a student of Religious Schools In The Catholic Church, as I am, was to see the stern, austere Franciscan melody followed by the almost vaporous, incense like Carmelite melody sung after Communion. Both are very old, dating back to the era of Trent. Teresa’s prayer was done with strings, just as Teresa composed it. She actually played it on the guitar, because the Discaled Carmelite nuns were not allowed to have organs. They used guitars and drums (like a bongo) for mass and the LOTH. You feel as if you’re floating when you hear it. With the Franciscan melody, you feel as if you’re planted in the ground.

The differences have to do with the two schools. Franciscanism is Incarnational. Carmel is Transcedant. I’m sorry. I get all excited. My doctorate was a comparison of Teresa of Avila and Francis of Assisi. I wrote my dissertation on their approaches to detachment.

You can feel their detachment in their music. Francis grounds you in the mystery of the God-Man, where you cease to be you, in order to let him take over. Teresa elevates you to the mystery of the eternal God where you cease to be you, in order to be lifted up to thim as a feather is carried by a gentle breeze.

The thought of all this rich tradition being pulled together by people who are young enough to be my grandchildren, is very inspiring and hopefull. I can only pray that it will do much good for the youth of Spain who have been stripped of their Catholic identity by a decaying European culture. I hope that the other young people visiting, even though they may not know the tradition and the history, may feel the spirit of these traditions. In the end, you don’t need to be a scholar. You just need to be open to be moved by Christ.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I have received four very ugly PMs because of this post. One blatantly accuses me of being anti-Traditionalist and being a heretic. However, I believe that these reactions come from a narrow understanding of Tradition and Traditionalism.
Bro. JR, if you need someone to be uncharitable for you, especially against a traditionalist, I’m here for you.

Just kidding :D:D:D:D

Just a little joke for people to lighten up. I think thats what we need here. 👍
 
Yes indeed, Brother. This article quotes His Excellency Archbishop Joseph W. Tobin, secretary of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life:
As for claims that World Youth Day is a seedbed for vocations, “I admit I was a little skeptical some years ago about whether it was a flash in the pan, and how do you carry it forth with some energy,” he said. But studies have shown that a significant portion of young men and women entering religious life cite the international event as an experience that contributed to their vocations.
He’s referring to the increasing number of religious brothers, lay brothers and religious sisters. His congregation does not cover priests. The clergy is separate. The number of men entering to become priests is increasing, but not as fast as those entering to be brothers.

I think part of it is that today’s brother does not have to be a priest to study advanced theology, philosophy, to run a religious community, to do ministry, to run a parish or do any other apostolic work. I’m not a priest, but I have two priests who are my subordinates. This is the way it was in the past, until Vatican I. Then things changed. Now we’re back to tradtiion…

The young man who feels the attraction to follow Benedict, Francis, John of the Cross, Mother Teresa, and so forth, no longer needs to become a priest to be a service to the Church and to embrace the consecrated life. We still need more priests, but I don’t think that we’re going to see them in the large numbers of the 1950s. I think we’re going to see more men and women religious.

John Paul II pushed the religious life. Pope Benedict is doing a great deal to show his support for the religious life as well. He has told youth that the religious are essential to the life of the Church. This is a message that they have not heard since Innocent III. He tells them at every WYD.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
BigCat, don’t you think that you’re being unnecessarily hostile?

First of all, let’s clarify, that it is not my intent to cause dissention. It is my intent to share the beauty and richness of Catholic Tradition.

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Brother, I never said that you did. I said some posters do engage in that activity by posting things on this forum that they know will ruffle feathers. If you took that to mean I was pointing at you specifically then I apologize. But Brother if stating an unpleasant truth is to be avoided at all costs,then where are we? Truth is truth no matter if no one believes it. It is and if someone hides it for whatever reason then a a tremendous disservive is being done.
 
Forming the youth in the faith is of crucial importance.

My main concern regarding WYD has been the many reports I’ve heard of desecration of the holy Eucharist on a large scale- the Sacrament left on the ground, thrown in the trash, etc.

If these reports from past events are true, I very sincerely pray that they don’t happen this time in Spain.

Pax.
 
Forming the youth in the faith is of crucial importance.

My main concern regarding WYD has been the many reports I’ve heard of desecration of the holy Eucharist on a large scale- the Sacrament left on the ground, thrown in the trash, etc.

If these reports from past events are true, I very sincerely pray that they don’t happen this time in Spain.

Pax.
My guess is that such reports are probably more an attempt to discredit the event than fact. Our own Franciscan Friars of the Eternal Word, Franciscans of the Renewal, Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration, Capuchin Franciscans, Conventual Franciscans, Observant Franciscans, Franciscans of the Eucharist and Order of St. Clare are major players in the organization of these events and reporting, along with the Dominicans, Salesians and local clergy and religious in the host diocese. These comments have never been made or shared by any of these friars, clerks or nuns.

Unless someone presents you with a picture or a testimony from a person who says, “I did this,” take such comments with a grain of salt. I’ve heard peple describe it as a Woodstock of sorts. I even heard someone talk about the lack of chastity because kids were camping out at a park sleeping closely to each other. I saw the kids camp at WYD in Denver. Of course they sleep close to each other. There are thousands of kids in a small area. They’re also bundled up in a sleeping bad, with all kinds of junk that they have to carry with them for survival during those few days. Space is a commodity they don’t have. They’re going to be in close quarters. But in some very strange mind, this was short of an orgy.

Every couple of years, the Franciscans hold the Chapter of Mats. There are two groups. In one group there are the delegates from all of the branches of the Franciscan family representing the older Franciscans. The other group are delegates of Franciscan youth or young Franciscans around the world. At the last Chapter of Mats, which was held in Assisi in 2009, for the 800th birthday of the Franciscan Order, there were 1300+ youth and 1400+ older Franciscan delegates.

Well, Assisi cannot accomodate so many Franciscans, even if it is our birthplace. It’s like your parents inviting the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren home for Christmas. Everyone was everywhere. For a few days, the City of Assisi was a buzz of music, talks, laughter, prayer, lectures, masses, films and even people challenging each other to a quick soccer match, which in Assisi is very hard, because there are very few large spaces. It’s an incredible experience. The young get a great deal out of it and out of celebrating their Franciscan identity.

The point is that some people on the conservative extreme have made all kinds of comments about the Chapter of Mats. I recall one very distasteful comment that called it a Franciscan Rock Festival to imply that the same things happen there that happen at a festival.

People make all kinds of comments. The truth is that you don’t refrain from doing something good and something that has been part of our Catholic tradition, such as youth pilgrimages and Chapters of youth, because people make comments or even because there are going to be participants who are loose canons. Loose canons should never regulate the life of the faithful. You try to minimize the possibilities. That’s the best you can do.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Quite interesting. Is this trend evident in other countries as well?
I told you about the Missionaries of the Poor in Kingston, Jamaica.

In the USA:

Franciscans of the Renewal - up

Franciscans of Peace - up

Poor Clare nuns - up

Dominican Sisters of Mary - begin with an inspired young woman after Denver + sisters from Nashville

Franciscan Brothers of Peace - up

In other countries there are the same experiences. That’s why the Sacred Congregation for Consecrated Life is making the statement. It gets the numbers from around the world. The Congregation would not make such a statement if the numbers were only for one religious community or one country. The Congregation oversee religious life in the Universal Church - East and West.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Folks need to be careful not to disrestpect Br. JR he is a Franciscan brother and a very good one. We are lucky to have on on these boards. I am as traditional as they come for someone in his 20s but I wont sit by and see people disrespect Br. JR or other religious on this board.
I’m with you.👍👍👍

God bless

jesus g
 
I didn’t see the opening Mass for WYD, but I thought I’d post a few links for the group Juventutem, which is a Catholic youth group which is attracted to the Extraordinary Form. They have, I believe, sent young members of their group to WYD for the last several years, and will be participating at WYD this year as well:

Here’s a link to the Latin Mass Sociry of England and Wales which describes their branch of Juventutem who sent young people to WYD this week:

lms.org.uk/news-and-events/juventutem-at-world-youth-day-2011

Here’s a link to the Juventutem site for London. Juventutem was formed with the approval of Cardinal Hoyos:

juventutemlondon.blogspot.com/2011/04/fssp-dowry-magazine-features-juventutem.html
 
Folks need to be careful not to disrestpect Br. JR he is a Franciscan brother and a very good one. We are lucky to have on on these boards. I am as traditional as they come for someone in his 20s but I wont sit by and see people disrespect Br. JR or other religious on this board.
Amen to that, archangel04! 👍 👍 👍

I just sent a supportive PM to our Brother JR.

I’m in my mid-fifties, but I consider myself a ‘traditional’ Catholic, too! (To be honest, I wish we could cut out ‘the labels’😦 )
 
I didn’t see the opening Mass for WYD, but I thought I’d post a few links for the group Juventutem, which is a Catholic youth group which is attracted to the Extraordinary Form. They have, I believe, sent young members of their group to WYD for the last several years, and will be participating at WYD this year as well:

Here’s a link to the Latin Mass Sociry of England and Wales which describes their branch of Juventutem who sent young people to WYD this week:

lms.org.uk/news-and-events/juventutem-at-world-youth-day-2011

Here’s a link to the Juventutem site for London. Juventutem was formed with the approval of Cardinal Hoyos:

juventutemlondon.blogspot.com/2011/04/fssp-dowry-magazine-features-juventutem.html
I think this is awesome that they’re going and that they will have a visible presence by having a daily mass that the kids can attend.

I remember in Denver that some of the Eastern Catholics had mass in their own rites or those who share a rite, such as all of the Byzantine Churches, had one Byzantine mass. I don’t know if they had it daily, but it was very present and for many of the Latin Catholic youngsters, it was an eye-opener and a enriching experience.

This will have the same effect. Even if the other young people choose never to attend an EF mass again, they need to see it and to know that it’s an option, if they change their minds later. They will also learn its history. I’m sure that they will hand out something that the kids can read.

This will be a great environment for it, because the people who attend WYD are in the “Catholic Mood”. What I mean is that they want to meet other Catholics from different cultures and different experiences.

I’m all for it. Great idea:thumbsup:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
As always, very informative and fascinating posts Br. JR. I am disappointed that you have recieved such negative reactions from a few people.

Your posts and information always help me appreciate and gain a deeper understanding of the Church’s beautiful and rich tradition. Thank you for participating on the forum with us. We are thankful for you.

~Josh
 
I told you about the Missionaries of the Poor in Kingston, Jamaica.

In the USA:

Franciscans of the Renewal - up

Franciscans of Peace - up

Poor Clare nuns - up

Dominican Sisters of Mary - begin with an inspired young woman after Denver + sisters from Nashville

Franciscan Brothers of Peace - up

In other countries there are the same experiences. That’s why the Sacred Congregation for Consecrated Life is making the statement. It gets the numbers from around the world. The Congregation would not make such a statement if the numbers were only for one religious community or one country. The Congregation oversee religious life in the Universal Church - East and West.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
It would be interesting to know if these vocations were directly the result of WYD or something elseentirely.
 
It would be interesting to know if these vocations were directly the result of WYD or something elseentirely.
I do not think we can ever really know that.

Unless you subscribe to the school of thought that is something comes after something else then the first thing is the cause, like those who think Vatican II is to blame for all those that left religious life.
 
I do not think we can ever really know that.

Unless you subscribe to the school of thought that is something comes after something else then the first thing is the cause, like those who think Vatican II is to blame for all those that left religious life.
I didn’t think so either. Thats why I am surprised that some automatically make that correlation.
 
I do not think we can ever really know that.

Unless you subscribe to the school of thought that is something comes after something else then the first thing is the cause, like those who think Vatican II is to blame for all those that left religious life.
I suppose you can’t “know” much of anything to an epistemic certainty, but according to the statement from Archbishop Tobin that I posted above (#36), “a significant portion of young men and women entering religious life cite the international event as an experience that contributed to their vocations.” Now maybe these new religious could either be fibbing or just mistaken about what contributed to their own vocations, but it seems unlikely, no?
 
I suppose you can’t “know” much of anything to an epistemic certainty, but according to the statement from Archbishop Tobin that I posted above (#36), “a significant portion of young men and women entering religious life cite the international event as an experience that contributed to their vocations.” Now maybe these new religious could either be fibbing or just mistaken about what contributed to their own vocations, but it seems unlikely, no?
The statement
As for claims that World Youth Day is a seedbed for vocations, **“I admit I was a little skeptical some years ago about whether it was a flash in the pan, and how do you carry it forth with some energy,” **he said. But studies have shown that a significant portion of young men and women entering religious life cite the international event as an experience that contributed to their vocations.
The key thing, he said, is that there is follow-up and support after World Youth Day is over.

The bolded part represents his words, not some interpretation of his words by someone else…Interesting that the second part and third parts are not set off by quotation marks. .That alone speaks volumes.
 
I didn’t think so either. Thats why I am surprised that some automatically make that correlation.
It would be interesting to know if these vocations were directly the result of WYD or something elseentirely.
The correlation is being made by the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. There were also a number of interviews done with young religious who have said that they first began to think about the religious life at WYD.

A number of them have said that it was the personality of Bl. John Paul himself and his invitation to the young to respond to Christ. Others have said that having seen him, even when he was sick and aging, was an inspiration to them. And still others have said that it was at WYD that they met sisters, lay brothers and religious brothers and were able to talk with them close up. At every WYD there is a very visible vocation event with music, literature, one-on-one dialogue with members of different communities, prayer time, and dsiplays. Also the three big communities that are responsible for coordinating with the host diocese are always very present: Franciscan, Dominican and Salesian. These communities are very involved in the preparation of the whole thing, because they do a great deal of youth ministry as well as teaching. The Salesians (male and female) and the Dominican sisters, are present in many schools and colleges.

The Franciscans also have an edge at WYD, because most of the coverage is done by the Franciscan Friars of the Eternal Word and transmitted via EWTN around the globe. In addition, the General Ministers make it a point to send hundreds of friars and cloistered nuns to WYD. It’s one of those few time when the nuns are allowed to leave the enclosure and kids actually get to meet them. Our Poor Clares in the USA have met many girls at these events. They stay in touch after the event. One thing leads to another. The friars make it a point to send a sampling of friars from the 112 obediences of men and a strong delegation of Franciscan Youth.

The Salesians, of course, are very huge around the world. Their presence is very strong. They usually go with many of their oratories. The Dominicans make themselves very present through lectures, catechesis, liturgy and other activities that they lead during those days. Remember, the Holy Father is there for part of the week, not the entire week. Also, WYD takes almost a year of preparation. Many of these kids are in contact with the leadership teams in their dioceses through the year.

In the diocese where I work, the preparation to send about 500 young people took a year. The Brothers of Mary, Sisters of the Pierced Hearts, Carmelite Sisters, Franciscan Brothers of Life, Claretian Sisters, Discalced Carmelite Friars, and many diocesan priests and deacons have been very involved with the young people all year, raising funds, doing a lot of educating on the whole idea of pilgrimage, and whatever else it took to get them to Madrid. Those provided many opportunities for the young people to be close to religious that they did not know existed.

It’s not just being at the event, but its what comes before and what follows that has helped many young people. When you interview young religious, you get this information. This year there is going to be a congress of some kind for young women religious under 35, I believe that’s the cut-off age. There are over 1,000 sisters and nuns signed up to participate. This even will be open to young women attending WYD.

The Sacred Congregatiion has been keeping tabs of this progress. As the Secretary says, he did not believe it was going to have a big impact and he’s pleasantly surprised that it has had such an impact.

As I said, everyone is more suprised that among men, the impact has favored the lay brothers and the religious brothers even more than the seminaries. Those congregations are growing faster than some diocesan seminaries. Let me tell you, there are some dioceses that are picking up speed. The regional seminary in Florida is full. Mt. St. Mary’s in Maryland is full. Lincoln is full. St. Joseph in NY is full. These are all regional schools. They pick up students from several dioceses. But they are full. That’s what matters.

The Franciscans of the Renewal say that they pick up at least five guys after every WYD. They just go and put on a concert. However, after the concert, they spend days talking with the kids about the poor whom they serve and about how they live without internet, telephones, TV, radios, cars, and how they spend their days just walking the streets of major cities to be one with the poor. For many young men to see a friar who is very talented, intelligent, well educated, many are priests, just walk away from that to pray and spend their days on the streets, it’s inspiring.

It is a great opportunity for kids to see the rich diversity in religious traditions that have sustained the Church for over 1,000 years. Common’ what are the chances of meeting a cloistered nun. You get to see cloistered Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Benedictines and others at these events. The autorities lift the enclosure for them to attend. At WYD in Australia, the Poor Clares put on a half-hour program from WYD that was televised around the globe. This gave the entire Poor Clare order a lot of press among youth. If you look at the Poor Clare nuns, they are very young. Their median age is about 38 and there are 20,000 of them. These women belong to the JP II generation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The correlation is being made by the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. There were also a number of interviews done with young religious who have said that they first began to think about the religious life at WYD.

A number of them have said that it was the personality of Bl. John Paul himself and his invitation to the young to respond to Christ. Others have said that having seen him, even when he was sick and aging, was an inspiration to them. And still others have said that it was at WYD that they met sisters, lay brothers and religious brothers and were able to talk with them close up. At every WYD there is a very visible vocation event with music, literature, one-on-one dialogue with members of different communities, prayer time, and dsiplays. Also the three big communities that are responsible for coordinating with the host diocese are always very present: Franciscan, Dominican and Salesian. These communities are very involved in the preparation of the whole thing, because they do a great deal of youth ministry as well as teaching. The Salesians (male and female) and the Dominican sisters, are present in many schools and colleges.

The Franciscans also have an edge at WYD, because most of the coverage is done by the Franciscan Friars of the Eternal Word and transmitted via EWTN around the globe. In addition, the General Ministers make it a point to send hundreds of friars and cloistered nuns to WYD. It’s one of those few time when the nuns are allowed to leave the enclosure and kids actually get to meet them. Our Poor Clares in the USA have met many girls at these events. They stay in touch after the event. One thing leads to another. The friars make it a point to send a sampling of friars from the 112 obediences of men and a strong delegation of Franciscan Youth.

The Salesians, of course, are very huge around the world. Their presence is very strong. They usually go with many of their oratories. The Dominicans make themselves very present through lectures, catechesis, liturgy and other activities that they lead during those days. Remember, the Holy Father is there for part of the week, not the entire week. Also, WYD takes almost a year of preparation. Many of these kids are in contact with the leadership teams in their dioceses through the year.

In the diocese where I work, the preparation to send about 500 young people took a year. The Brothers of Mary, Sisters of the Pierced Hearts, Carmelite Sisters, Franciscan Brothers of Life, Claretian Sisters, Discalced Carmelite Friars, and many diocesan priests and deacons have been very involved with the young people all year, raising funds, doing a lot of educating on the whole idea of pilgrimage, and whatever else it took to get them to Madrid. Those provided many opportunities for the young people to be close to religious that they did not know existed.

It’s not just being at the event, but its what comes before and what follows that has helped many young people. When you interview young religious, you get this information. This year there is going to be a congress of some kind for young women religious under 35, I believe that’s the cut-off age. There are over 1,000 sisters and nuns signed up to participate. This even will be open to young women attending WYD.

The Sacred Congregatiion has been keeping tabs of this progress. As the Secretary says, he did not believe it was going to have a big impact and he’s pleasantly surprised that it has had such an impact.

As I said, everyone is more suprised that among men, the impact has favored the lay brothers and the religious brothers even more than the seminaries. Those congregations are growing faster than some diocesan seminaries. Let me tell you, there are some dioceses that are picking up speed. The regional seminary in Florida is full. Mt. St. Mary’s in Maryland is full. Lincoln is full. St. Joseph in NY is full. These are all regional schools. They pick up students from several dioceses. But they are full. That’s what matters.

The Franciscans of the Renewal say that they pick up at least five guys after every WYD. They just go and put on a concert. However, after the concert, they spend days talking with the kids about the poor whom they serve and about how they live without internet, telephones, TV, radios, cars, and how they spend their days just walking the streets of major cities to be one with the poor. For many young men to see a friar who is very talented, intelligent, well educated, many are priests, just walk away from that to pray and spend their days on the streets, it’s inspiring.

It is a great opportunity for kids to see the rich diversity in religious traditions that have sustained the Church for over 1,000 years. Common’ what are the chances of meeting a cloistered nun. You get to see cloistered Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Benedictines and others at these events. The autorities lift the enclosure for them to attend. At WYD in Australia, the Poor Clares put on a half-hour program from WYD that was televised around the globe. This gave the entire Poor Clare order a lot of press among youth. **If you look at the Poor Clare nuns, they are very young. Their median age is about 38 and there are 20,000 of them. These women belong to the JP II generation.**Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
They actually have a Poor Claire Monastery several blocks frommy house. They apparently haven’t shared in this renewal, Their avarage age is closer to70 and they haven’t had a new member in over 30 years. Just an aberration I suppose.
 
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