Did your view on Hell Change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter HabemusFrancis
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

HabemusFrancis

Guest
I am honestly curious if anyone else’s acceptance on the Church teaching of Hell has changed?

Mine has. For the longest time I did not really believe in Hell in a real way. In the sense that I wasn’t really sure Hell was real, or I didn’t really think or believe it was a flaming prison where people were tortured by demons.

Yet lately I have been forced to accept that Hell is real, and that there is a good chance that people could end up there.

What changed my opinion? Not really the preaching of any priest or bishop or any “traditional” Catholic website, but more just my observation of human being and human society.

So often I hear tragedies and horrible being compared to Hell. However I don’t find the gulags, Aushwitz, or “war” generally to be analogous to Hell. During such tragedies people often show compassion and affection for each other, showing far greater sacrifices for each other than people in normal circumstances do.

In my mind, Hell is comparable to or really comes “alive” in the poisonous,cruel dysfunctional relationships people have with each other. Whenever people are wedded to selfishness, cruelty, and a disregard for the well-being and dignity of other people, they have “Gone to hell” so to speak. Basically any time where people cannot give love or be loved in return is a form of Hell.

I think it was bishop Sheen who said that Hell and Heaven begin in this life, and it is evident from the conduct others engage in. Often times

Is Hell a flaming dungeon where demons torture people? I fear it is possible. I fear that both C.S Lewisn and Bishop Barron are incorrect when they say the doors of Hell are closed from the inside. The souls in Hell may want out desperately but “out” for them was when the were alive on earth.

I believe the Churches teaching on Hell, but I struggle to comprehend and accept it times. I struggle to accept that a life of sin and willful turning away from God’s will and presence could lead to an eternity of unimaginable torture. I further struggle to believe that God would really stop caring about the damned, or that the damned would honestly prefer to be where they were and not in heaven.

The damned are in the worst possible place for a human entity to be. In a place/state of utter pain, despair and sheer terror of Satan and the demons without a slight bit of succor. Forever. Apparently they are both victims and perpetrators of Satan and his will.

I… Can anyone relate to my acceptance of the Churches teaching…but also really question it as well?
 
I use to be Catholic too but now I think the teaching of hell is man-made. What room is there in an all-loving God for hell? God is nothing but the purest of love, benevolence, kindness. Hell is adopted from the collective personality and we’ve been conditioned to fear it. That fear does not come from God because there is no fear in God. Where else could the fear be coming from then?
 
Last edited:
What is the point in worrying about going to Heaven or Hell, no one seeks out to go to hell, and most if not everyone hopes or wants to be in Heaven, and then for some reason you have those who have this need for a purgatory ( which I would argue being alive is enough of a purgatory why have another one in the afterlife ) .

Maybe there is a need to worry about hell if one has lived a very messed up life and finally realized it and wants to make amends for ones actions now and wonders how long it would take.An or doesnt know how to avoid going to hell.

Hell is the least of my worries. An I surly don’t have time to waste on worrying about hell either.
 
I didn’t believe in Hell either, until I actually read the Bible.

God the Father made you with a thought and could unmake you just as easily. His mere presence unfiltered could and probably would strike you dead. It would be more tolerable to spend an eternity in Hell than stand before Him with even the slightest stain of sin upon your soul. Without the intermediary of Christ, we would all willingly fling ourselves into Hell rather than stand before Him as sinners. The damned are dead things standing before Life itself. Hatred and Evil standing before Justice and Love. They choose Hell because it is only the second worse thing in the world for them. For them, God is the worst thing.

I have no issues with Hell anymore because the evil inside of me, that would deny me the greatest possible good and would struggle against the greatest Good, deserves Hell and I am glad to know that one day it will be torn away from me and cast into the flame.
 
I’ve learned the justice of the ego is far different from the justice of God.
 
Eternal separation from all that is true, good and beautiful is a reality preached by the incarnate Word of God, Jesus Christ in the Gospels (and throughout Scripture).
 
JohnDom said:
I use to be Catholic too but now I think the teaching of hell is man-made.
Click to expand...
Hmm… so, then, what you’re saying is that the Bible is fiction (especially the parts of the Gospels in which Jesus talks about eternal punishment)?
What room is there in an all-loving God for hell? God is nothing but the purest of love, benevolence, kindness.
Click to expand...
So… how does all-loving benevolence and kindness react to rejection?
Does it honor it, or does it force it to bend to God’s will? Does it allow a free will decision to say ‘no’, or does it yank away free will if the free will choice is against God’s will?
Hell is adopted from the collective personality and we’ve been conditioned to fear it.
Click to expand...
I’d agree that the aversion to hell, or perhaps the fear of hell is humanly conditioned; that makes perfect sense. However, from that, it does not follow that hell itself is a human invention.
That fear does not come from God because there is no fear in God. Where else could the fear be coming from then?
Click to expand...
From humans who realize that we are made to be with God eternally, but also realize that there is more than one eternal end-state.
 
A literal interpretation of the Bible certainly is fictitious. We can pretend like it’s not but deep down we know it is. The reason we pretend is because we’re scared of what will happen if we let go of our precious beliefs. That hanging on is the exact same intensity with which the enemy of the personality has us in a headlock.

It’s obvious that an all-loving being will react to rejection with nothing but love.

Sure hell is man-made. Do you think evil can come from something good? Perhaps we don’t really know God. Perhaps we are fooled by the craftiness of the personality.

You just admitted fear comes from humans and not from God. Why does it matter if the fear is of hell or anything else? It’s still fear.
 
JohnDom said:
It’s obvious that an all-loving being will react to rejection with nothing but love.
Click to expand...
And how is that love shown ? By letting them reject him freely, and not forced into haven or “brainwashed”
JohnDom said:
Sure hell is man-made. Do you think evil can come from something good? Perhaps we don’t really know God. Perhaps we are fooled by the craftiness of the personality.
Click to expand...
What part of Hell is evil though ? There is evil in it, but hell as a concept is not evil. People have this view of hell as a plce of constant torture, but its just a place of torment because you rejected God which is good. And evil is the absence of good so you go to a place where evil people go.
The punishments of course can be different based on how much justice is needed.

Love is willing the good of the other. And that entails justice.
 
The bible doesn’t tell us a whole lot about hell, so a good part of what we think about it is speculative.

I do think I have “changed” my view a bit, though I still think it’s speculative. My view is colored by the writings of Ste Therese of Lisieux. Sometimes she’s kind of obscure, but I’m reasonably certain about some things she said. She opined that all people in hell are volunteers. She maintained that at or near the moment of death, there is a terrible clarity. We see everything we ever did and fully understand the evil of them. There’s no pretense, no rationalization, no minimalization. Nothing. And it’s horrifying. Not only that, it hurts.

We are then offered God’s forgiveness and His love. It’s utterly undeserved, but comes from pure love. We can then either admit to what we have done and humbly accept forgiveness, or we can, in pride, reject it. If we reject it, we reject Him, and we do it forever. It’s a totally clear decision, not some emotional “anger” kind of thing. It’s pride and we won’t tolerate its deflation. We choose ourselves instead of God, and we “cocoon up” in self-worship forever. We know how insufficient that is for us, but we do it anyway.

It’s hard to imagine anybody choosing hell, but a person can a little bit. We’re all awfully prideful and full of rationalizations and excuses and self-worship. And Satan, who is a lot smarter than we are, did it, knowing in absolute clarity what his alternatives were.

She also maintained that everybody in purgatory is also a volunteer. Unless we’re real saints, we see our unworthiness in all its ugliness. We see how prideful we are and don’t want to present ourselves to God that way. But for purgatory, we would cast ourselves into hell, but we can choose the former. In doing so, we choose a very, very difficult purgation. But we do have enough humility, or at least desire for it, that we volunteer for it. Spiritually, after the “revelation”, I imagine we’re in a heck of a shape and have a very difficult time ahead of us.

Is there fire in purgatory? I don’t think she ever said. But if we really, really think about our self-centeredness, we can somewhat imagine what it might be like to self-purge every last vestige of it.

How can we ever prepare for something like that? She offered her “little way”. She felt that loving God is the key, and she practiced that love all the time and in small ways, even when she didn’t feel particularly loving. She acted out of love anyway. She often took the most difficult and trying ways of living that she could, and did it to show her love for God.

So, being no less concerned about that than any other view of hell, I am inclined to her view of things.
 
JohnDom said:
A literal interpretation of the Bible certainly is fictitious. We can pretend like it’s not but deep down we know it is.
Click to expand...
A literal interpretation of the Bible tells us that Jesus died for our sins, was raised from the dead, and ascended into heaven. Are you claiming that this didn’t happen?

If so, then I’m afraid there’s no sense of the word “Christian” that applies to you and your beliefs. It probably means that this conversation is over, since our beliefs diverge so deeply, that we can’t really hope to come to consensus on these issues – other than to agree that we don’t see eye-to-eye.

[quote[
It’s obvious that an all-loving being will react to rejection with nothing but love.
[/quote]
We just disagree what that ‘love’ looks like. I contend that a loving God will allow us to have what we tell Him we want, even if that’s eternity without Him. On the other hand, you perceive Him as the kind of despot that forces His vision on us, against our will. 🤷‍♂️
Sure hell is man-made. Do you think evil can come from something good?
Click to expand...
Hell doesn’t come from God. It comes from those in His creation who reject Him.
You just admitted fear comes from humans and not from God. Why does it matter if the fear is of hell or anything else? It’s still fear.
Click to expand...
DIsbelief and rejection of God’s revelation comes from humans, too.
 
The whole concept of hell is evil. We can tell because it’s psychologically painful and based on fearfulness. That is why many of us are trying to avoid hell in the first place, is it not? The concept of hell is intended to inject fear into the heart and mind. Would an all-loving God try to inject fear in us? If we answer yes then we clearly don’t know God. 1 John 4:18
 
Last edited:
If the literal translation is true then where does self-worth come from?
 
Hell is a complex subject. I don’t want to go there and focus on praying for people who might have went or could be stuck there. The best thing to do is try to confess all your sins and let your sins go from crimson/scarlet to white as wool. As far as the East is from the West.

Let your situation change. Other denominations or those with no faith may try to get your online records or whatnot and be judge, jury and executioner. Hell is something they need to worry about more than I do.
 
I recommend the extra canonical Apocalypse of Peter which was regarded as scripture by many early Christians.
 
I personally don’t fear hell. Christians are not scared into submission or smoething. Sure,nobody would like to be in hell because we would be seperated from God.
JohnDom said:
Would an all-loving God try to inject fear in us?
Click to expand...
We see plenty of good reasons for fear. For example people know that the things they fear they should
stay away from as its bad for them, giving them a good sense of right and wrong.
JohnDom said:
John 4:18
Click to expand...
But that goes to prove my point, since in the verse it doesnt just say love, but perfect love. The statement in John is not about God, its about ourselves. Real christians shouldn’t fear , since they have the perfect love which is Christ by their side.

Just cause we don’t want to end up somewhere does not mean its evil. Hell is there to display God’s perfect justice.
We can also look at it from a bit of a narcissistic point of view. Would you think it would be just for God to give the same gift to believers and to non believers who only decided to do bad in the worldy life suffering less/no consequences from it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top