Did Zoroastrianism influence Judaism and thus Christianity and Islam?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jas84173
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jas84173

Guest
Zoroastrianism, known to its followers as the Zarathushti din (Zoroastrian religion), developed from the words, ideas, beliefs, and rituals attributed to a devotional poet named Zarathushtra (later Middle Persian or Pahlavi: Zardukhsht, Zardusht; New Persian or Farsi: Zardosht). Zarathushtra eventually came to be regarded as the founder and prophet of the devotionally monotheistic, doctrinally dualistic faith named after him. So, followers of the religion are termed Zoroastrians (New Persian: Zartoshtis, Zardoshtis; Gujarati: Jarthushtis). Zoroastrians also traditionally refer to their faith as Mazdayasna daēnā (Middle Persian: dēn ī Māzdēsn ) (religion of Mazdā) and to themselves as Mazdayasna (Middle Persian: Māzdēsn ) (worshipers of Mazdā), thus acknowledging worship of Ahura Mazdā (Wise Lord) as God and creator. The Fravarānē (Profession of faith) begins with the Avestan words: “I profess myself a worshiper of Mazdā, a follower of Zarathushtra, opposing the demons, accepting the doctrine of the Ahura.” developed into the major religion—theologically, demographically, and politically—of Iran and Central Asia between the sixth century bce and the tenth century ce, enjoying royal patronage from various dynasties. During those centuries it influenced Hellenistic, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim beliefs through contact between members of those communities and Zoroastrians. Zoroastrians assimilated aspects of monotheism and hagiography from the Judeo-Christian and Islamic traditions. After the Arab conquest of Iran and Central Asia in the seventh century ce, Zoroastrianism gradually lost adherents through conversion to Islam. During the tenth century, some adherents migrated to India, forming the minority Parsi (Persian) community that flourishes there into the twenty-first century but became endogamic within Hindu society. By the thirteenth century, Irani Zoroastrians also had become a confessional minority. During the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, Zoroastrians relocated from Iran and India to other countries. Based on recent demographic assessments, the faith has a following of approximately 300,000 persons worldwide.
The debt of Israel to its Eastern neighbours in religious matters is easy to demonstrate on a few precise points of minor importance but less so in other more important points, such as dualism, angelology, and eschatology.

Chapters 40 through 48 of the Book of Isaiah offer striking parallels with the third and fourth verses of Gāthā 44. Besides the common procedure of rhetorical questions, there is the notion of a god who has created the world and, notably, light and darkness. The very idea of a creator god may be common to all of the western part of the Semitic world. But the notion that God created light and darkness appears in both prophets. It is true that Zarathustra associates light and darkness only to waking and sleep and that no Iranian text says that God created good and evil. Nevertheless, the juxtaposition, in the Book of Isaiah, of light–darkness with good–evil sounds remarkably Iranian.

After the exile, the traditional hope in a messiah-king of the house of David who would reestablish Israel as an independent nation and make it triumph over all enemies gave way gradually to a concept at once more universal and more moral. The salvation of Israel was still essential, but it had to come about in the framework of a general renewal; the appearance of a saviour would mean the end of this world and the birth of a new creation; his judgment of Israel would become a general judgment, dividing human beings into good and evil. This new concept, at once universal and ethical, recalls Iran so strongly that many scholars attribute it to the influence of that country.
 
Zoroastrainism is the ancient dualistic religion of the Persians. It has nothing to do with Christianity, Judaism, or islam.
 
No religion has developed in a vacuum. Ideas can be refined over time, improved, reused. Prohibitions against things like murder have been in place long before modern religions. So influence is possible, even if the core teachings of these earlier religions have been rejected.

This is my opinion, it is not intended as a debatable point. Thanks.
 
No religion has developed in a vacuum. Ideas can be refined over time, improved, reused. Prohibitions against things like murder have been in place long before modern religions. So influence is possible, even if the core teachings of these earlier religions have been rejected.

This is my opinion, it is not intended as a debatable point. Thanks.
A lot of sensibility in what you stated.

There’s actually a whole literature surrounding the question asked , most of what I’ve seen actually doesn’t include us - mostly a debate regarding Judaism and Zoroastrianism and who exactly influenced whom.

I’m actually quite surprised at the number of Zoroastrian references that have been popping up on this board in CAF lately.

I’m half tempted to think there’s a lurker Iranian population on here - in which case سلام
to you all…

I think at least , my Farsi is very rusty at this point. 😛
 
I priest once told me that ALL religions have SOME truth in them.

Afterall, if we call came from Adam and Eve (or Noah if flood killed all humans), then all ancient Religions have a common root. God then choose Abraham to be our father in faith, as his belief was perhaps the most pure.

So perhaps… some of the similarities you seeing is not so much due to one religion browsing from another, but more likely due to a common root.

It’s important to remember that most secular academics studying these topics do not believe in creation or intelligent design. They believe in evolution. So to an evolutionist, the idea that all ancient religions might actually have a common root is such a foreign concept because they don’t believe God exists or they don’t believe that God spoke to early man.

I pray this helps.

God Bless
 
All religions deal with shared human problems and thus the solution set is limited, and similar in all ages. “I will write my law on their hearts” is consistent with all cultures, societies and thus, religions, having commonalities.

These assertions are generally forwarded by those who are too spiritually lazy to believe in something.
 
No religion has developed in a vacuum. Ideas can be refined over time, improved, reused. Prohibitions against things like murder have been in place long before modern religions. So influence is possible, even if the core teachings of these earlier religions have been rejected.

This is my opinion, it is not intended as a debatable point. Thanks.
I completely agree. Religions and cultures in general have influenced one another done through the ages. Even earlier religions have been influenced by later ones, such as Christianity’s influence on Judaism. Judaism has also been influenced by Zoroastrianism and Hellenism. I think most Jewish and Christian scholars concur on this point. That does not mean, however, that Judaism did not also go its own way. For example, the notion of a duality in the universe between the forces of good and evil, G-d and Satan, is NOT a Jewish concept. HaSatan cannot possibly have the strength or desire to stand in opposition to G-d; rather he is regarded as an ally of G-d who tempts us to test our fidelity. This is a departure from the Zoroastrian idea. Christianity and Islam also established their own identities in many ways even while being connected to and influenced by Judaism.
 
Well not many people realize it but what about the three Magi who visited Jesus?Magi denotes followers of Zoroastrianism or Zoroaster. The earliest known use of the word Magi is in the trilingual inscription written by Darius the Great, known as the Behistun Inscription. Old Persian texts, pre-dating the Hellenistic period, refer to a Magus as a Zurvanic, and presumably Zoroastrian, priest. They were known as astrologers. One has to wonder if the Babylonian exile made them aware the Jewish people were awaiting a Messiah. It says Magi from the East. It could say " Zoroastrian Priests " and would really mean the same thing. People who don’t know better think Magi are some term for some prominent Jewish star interpreter or something, but the truth is the Magi came from a completely different faith which was Zoroastrianism, thus it does affect Christianity directly.
 
Jesus validated every truth in every religion.

That’s why His religion is called Catholic.

It’s that simple!
 
Some say that the Kabbalah originated in Babylon, after the Persians conquered the region where the Jews were captive. And the early Gnostics of course were influenced by dualism; the view that good and evil are both equally and eternally conflicting forces.

There appears to be some dualist influence in Christian theology. For example: struggling to explain dual predestination without saying that God is the creator of evil, that death is the result of original sin (Augustine’s opponents accused him of crypto Manichaeism for this), and the ransom theory of the atonement. Anselm of Canterbury then rightly claimed that God owes nothing to the devil, and abandoned the ransom theory of the atonement but still considered sin to be infinite in magnitude. Later, likely influenced by his captivity in Muslim lands, Francis of Assissi considered death a servant of God, and Franciscan theologian Duns Scotus abandoned the view that sin is infinite in magnitude. Durandus of St. Porcain then introduced the idea of intrinsic evil, returning Christianity to dualism.

There was a notable Manichean influence in Muslim lands during Islam’s early centuries, although Muslims generally couldn’t tell the difference between Zoroastrians and Manicheans. Crypto Manichaens such as the Barmakids were close to the Abbasid regime, until the latter realised the subversiveness of the Manicheans. Manicheans influenced the Mu`tazilites and Twelver Shias, mostly in their view that Allah is not the creator of evil, but it was the Ismaili Shias who were influenced the most to the point that their esotericism and hierarchy resembled that of Manichaeism. Sunni orthodoxy was always subversive to dualism, an antidote if you will.
 
that death is the result of original sin (Augustine’s opponents accused him of crypto Manichaeism for this).
I thought Augustine specific innovation wasn’t conceiving death as a product of original sin (our Eastern Orthodox brethren point out that was an opinion held in general by the Fathers), but extended it to the whole range of psycho-spiritual phenomena related to mans free will and salvation. His insistence that the very nature of humanity was injured by Adams actions resulted in rebellion of the body against the higher functions of the mind. That makes room for his conception off Grace, as mankind incapable of goodness without God, a conclusion which the Eastern Fathers reject.
Crypto Manichaens such as the Barmakids<<
When did this happen?! I was always taught the Barmakids were Central Asian Buddhist shrine keepers who merely converted to the Abbasid version of Islam
 
Some say that the Kabbalah originated in Babylon, after the Persians conquered the region where the Jews were captive. And the early Gnostics of course were influenced by dualism; the view that good and evil are both equally and eternally conflicting forces.

There appears to be some dualist influence in Christian theology. For example: struggling to explain dual predestination without saying that God is the creator of evil, that death is the result of original sin (Augustine’s opponents accused him of crypto Manichaeism for this), and the ransom theory of the atonement. Anselm of Canterbury then rightly claimed that God owes nothing to the devil, and abandoned the ransom theory of the atonement but still considered sin to be infinite in magnitude. Later, likely influenced by his captivity in Muslim lands, Francis of Assissi considered death a servant of God, and Franciscan theologian Duns Scotus abandoned the view that sin is infinite in magnitude. Durandus of St. Porcain then introduced the idea of intrinsic evil, returning Christianity to dualism.

There was a notable Manichean influence in Muslim lands during Islam’s early centuries, although Muslims generally couldn’t tell the difference between Zoroastrians and Manicheans. Crypto Manichaens such as the Barmakids were close to the Abbasid regime, until the latter realised the subversiveness of the Manicheans. Manicheans influenced the Mu`tazilites and Twelver Shias, mostly in their view that Allah is not the creator of evil, but it was the Ismaili Shias who were influenced the most to the point that their esotericism and hierarchy resembled that of Manichaeism. Sunni orthodoxy was always subversive to dualism, an antidote if you will.
Isn’t that what Kabalism is, basically a Jewish version of what Gnosticism is to Christianity?
 
Isn’t that what Kabalism is, basically a Jewish version of what Gnosticism is to Christianity?
actually the noted scholar of Jewish mysticism, Gershom Scholem made a very good argument for place Merkabah Mysticism as the source for later Kabbalism and for Christian Gnosticism which he states relies upon presuppositions of the former.

Can’t remember the name of the monograph, but he also makes an argument against the folks who think either one of these mystical types have their roots in Iranian sources.
 
I priest once told me that ALL religions have SOME truth in them.

Afterall, if we call came from Adam and Eve (or Noah if flood killed all humans), then all ancient Religions have a common root. God then choose Abraham to be our father in faith, as his belief was perhaps the most pure.

So perhaps… some of the similarities you seeing is not so much due to one religion browsing from another, but more likely due to a common root.

/QUOTE]

Yes, true. Humanity’s inclination is to seek God, and therefore all faiths that sincerely seek God will have some amount of truth in them.
 
I completely agree. Religions and cultures in general have influenced one another done through the ages. Even earlier religions have been influenced by later ones, such as Christianity’s influence on Judaism. Judaism has also been influenced by Zoroastrianism and Hellenism. I think most Jewish and Christian scholars concur on this point. That does not mean, however, that Judaism did not also go its own way. For example, the notion of a duality in the universe between the forces of good and evil, G-d and Satan, is NOT a Jewish concept. HaSatan cannot possibly have the strength or desire to stand in opposition to G-d; rather he is regarded as an ally of G-d who tempts us to test our fidelity. This is a departure from the Zoroastrian idea. Christianity and Islam also established their own identities in many ways even while being connected to and influenced by Judaism.
Well said.

And, of course, Christians would say neither: we disagree with your idea that Satan is “an ally of G-d who tempts us to test our fidelity”, but we do him as created by God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top