Didn't James the Less believe in Jesus?

[Miguel2]

I learned that the “brothers” of Jesus are his cousis and that James the less is one of them. But the Bible says that Jesus’s “brothers” didn’t believe in him:

“For even his own brothers did not believe in him.” (John 7:5)

If James the less was one of the “brothers” of Jesus, how can a apostle not believe in him?

I would like to understand the correct interpretation of that passage.

 

[BartholomewB]

You may remember we had a brief conversation about this yesterday, on another thread that you had started:

Who were the "brothers" of Jesus? Sacred Scripture

Two of the twelve disciples are called James. Historically, the James called “the brother of the Lord” may have been one of those two (specifically, James the Less) or he may have been a third James.

You replied:

Who were the "brothers" of Jesus? Sacred Scripture

The Church believes in only two James: James the lesser and James the greater.

To which I replied:

Who were the "brothers" of Jesus? Sacred Scripture

Yes, I’ve often wondered what induced the Church to adopt that teaching. It may possibly be the historical truth, but on the other hand, it may not.

The point you are raising here, on today’s new thread, is one of the reasons why many people have reached the conclusion that “James the brother of the Lord,” mentioned three times (Matt 13:55, Mark 6:3, and Gal 1:19), is not to be identified with James the Less but is, indeed, a third James, who was never one of the Twelve.

If this is correct, then the James mentioned by Peter in Acts 12:17 (“Tell this to James”) is this third James, and so is the James mentioned in 1 Cor 15:7, “Then he appeared to James.”

 

[EndTimes]

If James the less was one of the “brothers” of Jesus, how can a apostle not believe in him?

What If?

The only Apostle who disobeyed Him of whom he knew was the Messiah - was Judas Iscariot

 

[porthos11]

I learned that the “brothers” of Jesus are his cousis and that James the less is one of them. But the Bible says that Jesus’s “brothers” didn’t believe in him:

“For even his own brothers did not believe in him.” (John 7:5)

I do not equate James the Lesser with James the brother of the Lord although tradition permits it. James the brother of the Lord is the James of Acts 15 and bishop of Jerusalem, who was martyred around 62 AD.

James the brother of the Lord could indeed have been one of those who did not believe in Jesus during his lifetime. That does not mean he did not convert after the Resurrection. Even Pharisees became Christians.

 

[phil19034]

I learned that the “brothers” of Jesus are his cousis and that James the less is one of them. But the Bible says that Jesus’s “brothers” didn’t believe in him:

“For even his own brothers did not believe in him.” (John 7:5)

The Bible doesn’t say “every brother of Jesus.”

Saying “the cousins of Jesus didn’t believe him” doesn’t necessarily mean that every single cousin didn’t believe him. It can simply imply that most didn’t believe him.

 

[BartholomewB]

The Bible doesn’t say “every brother of Jesus.”

Are you sure about that? John’s Greek reads οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτοῦ (hoi adelphoi autou), which translates literally as “the brothers of him.” I don’t know much Greek, but the definite article would seem to suggest, in any language, that the meaning is all of them.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/7-5.htm

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

The Bible doesn’t say “every brother of Jesus.”

Are you sure about that? John’s Greek reads οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτοῦ (hoi adelphoi autou), which translates literally as “the brothers of him.” I don To

ἐπίστευον εἰς αὐτόν. 6

John 7:5 Interlinear: for not even were his brethren believing in him.

1st - Brothers of the Lord are not 100% exactly defined. Sometimes it might mean family member. Other times it might mean very close friends. We don’t know which is which when it’s being using.

2nd - If I say, “I’m fighting with my brothers,” what does that mean? Does it mean that I’m fighting with my biological brothers? Does that mean that I’m fighting with my fraternity brothers? If I was in the military, does it mean I’m fighting against my fellow soldiers? Or does it mean that my fellow soldiers are fight along side of me against the enemy?

Also, if it means that I’m fighting with my Fraternity Brothers or fighting against my fellow soldiers, does that mean I’m fighting with every single one of them? Or does it mean that I’m simply fighting with some or most of them?

My point - to the best of my knowledge, this phrase is a generalization, and not an exact statement.

 

[BartholomewB]

My point - to the best of my knowledge, this phrase is a generalization, and not an exact statement.

This episode, John 7:1-9, is taking place in Galilee. It begins with the words, “After this, Jesus went around in Galilee, purposely staying away from Judea, …” and ends with “Having said this, he stayed in Galilee.” John specifies that the people in Galilee who are advising Jesus to go to Judea, even though they don’t believe in him, are “the brothers of him,” with the definite article. As I said in my earlier post, that word “the” would seem to exclude the possibility that John is referring to a random handful of people who happen to belong to the same extended family.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

My point - to the best of my knowledge, this phrase is a generalization, and not an exact statement.

This episode, John 7:1-9, is taking place in Galilee. It begins with the words, “After this, Jesus went around in Galilee, purposely staying away from Judea, …” and ends with “Having said this, he stayed in Galilee.” John specifies that the people in Galilee who are advising Jesus to go to Judea, even though they don’t believe in him, are “the brothers of him,” with the definite article. As I said in my earlier post, that word “the” would seem to exclude the possibility that John is referring to a random handful of people who happen to belong to the same extended family.

Regardless. The word “the” doesn’t automatically mean “all”

Let’s pretend there were 20 “Brothers of the Lord.” The phrase “For even his own brothers did not believe in him.” (John 7:5) could easily mean 19 out of 20 “brothers” didn’t believe him.

The phrase is a generalization in regards to the precise number.

 

[Hodos]

If James the less was one of the “brothers” of Jesus, how can a apostle not believe in him?

I would like to understand the correct interpretation of that passage.

You have to look at the chronological point at which that statement was written. It was written before the crucifixion. If you read Acts it is obvious the resurrection convinced many that Jesus is the Messiah, to include his brothers.

 

[TMC]

I would tend to agree. Also, Mark says that (at least four of) Jesus’ brothers (however you interpret that term) believed he was out of his mind. It seems that at least James later changed his mind about that, but both Mark and John seem clear that Jesus’ family did not believe in him, at least during part of his ministry.

 

[BartholomewB]

It seems that at least James later changed his mind about that,

If it is the same James, that is, one of the “brothers” who didn’t believe in Jesus in John 7:5, his conversion presumably occurred after Easter, when the Risen Christ appeared to him (1 Cor 15:7):

1 cor 15:7 RSVCE - - Bible Gateway

 

[TMC]

If it is the same James, that is, one of the “brothers” who didn’t believe in Jesus in John 7:5, his conversion presumably occurred after Easter, when the Risen Christ appeared to him (1 Cor 15:7):

Well, at least by that time. I see no reason not to think it is the same James, as it seems unlikely Jesus would have two brothers named James. That said, sorting out all of the various disciples and apostles is notoriously difficult, and the use of common names (eg Judas) and nicknames (eg Didymus) makes it tough to say with any certainty.

 

[EndTimes]

I learned that the “brothers” of Jesus are his cousis and that James the less is one of them

Ultimately there can be nothing wrong with the passage.
There is no exact agreement re: James the less… such as who his father and mother actually were.
It’s also said that - maybe he became a believer and thus an Apostle

Thing is - no Apostle of Jesus didn’t know who He was…

=

 

[phil19034]

TMC:

It seems that at least James later changed his mind about that,

If it is the same James, that is, one of the “brothers” who didn’t believe in Jesus in John 7:5, his conversion presumably occurred after Easter, when the Risen Christ appeared to him (1 Cor 15:7):
1 cor 15:7 RSVCE - Then he appeared to James, then to all - Bible Gateway

@TMC

FYI - the OP is asking about James the Less. James the Less was not learning who Jesus was in 1 Cor 15:7 because James the Less is one of the 12.

In 1 Cor 15:4-8 it is clear that Jesus first appeared to Peter & the 12 (which James the Less was part of). Then, He appeared to more 500 brethren, next He appeared to James and all the other [lower case a]postles (verse 7), finally ending with St. Paul. The James the Lesser was already visited in verse 5. So verse 7 is either another James and other apostles not part of the 12, OR Jesus revisited the 12.

Let’s remember, that while tradition holds that James, Son of Alphaeus; James the Less; and James, Brother of the Lord are all the same person, there are some who feel these are actually 2 people.

Regardless, 1 Cor 15:7 is either a 3rd James or Jesus was revisiting James & the Apostles.

(4) that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, (5) and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. (6) Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. (7) Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. (8) Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

1 cor 15:4-8 RSVCE - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[hope]

I wondered about the translation. Only in the link you provide is there a the
Here are a number of translations:
John Chapter 7

Parallel
RSV 3: So his brothers said to him, "Leave here and go to Judea, that your disciples may see the works you are doing.
NRS 3 So his brothers said to him, `Leave here and go to Judea so that your disciples also may see the works you are doing;
Douay 3 And his brethren said to him: Pass from hence, and go into Judea; that thy disciples also may see thy works which thou dost.
NAB 3 So his brothers said to him, "Leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples also may see the works you are doing.
KJV 3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
The Greek translation that I have access to but can’t produce here does not have an article in it
I did a search for Strong’s and its rendering of it does not use articles.
I agree with that it isn’t intending to mean all his Brethren. I would also agree with that they could have become believers later.

 

[BartholomewB]

I wondered about the translation. Only in the link you provide is there a the
Here are a number of translations:
John Chapter 7

I’m sorry if I failed to make my meaning clear. The point I was trying to make is that John uses the definite article in his Greek text:

John 7:5 SBLGNT - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[hope]

I guess you missed my point. It is questionable if it is used. Your link to Bible Gateway stated " NO RESULTS FOUND."

 

[po18guy]

I think “doubted” is not an unreasonable explanation. Remember on the Sea of Tiberius when they thought a ghost approaching the boat? In the upper room they were fearful until He chose to reveal Himself, since He was in His glorified state? Thomas probing the glorified wounded Flesh and receiving instant revelation? On the shore of the Sea when He was preparing fish? Only when John received the revelation of Who it was did he shout “It is the Lord!” Those on the road to Emmaus who neither recognized His appearance nor His voice?

Some things are revealed to us only at the proper time.

It’s like that.

 

[BartholomewB]

I guess you missed my point. It is questionable if it is used. Your link to Bible Gateway stated " NO RESULTS FOUND."

I see. On my screen I can see the verse clearly displayed. I don’t need to click on the link. Here it is, in full:

οὐδὲ γὰρ οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτοῦ ἐπίστευον εἰς αὐτόν.