Didn't We Learn Anything From London?

[Karin]

bellesjoy:

Because they do enter legally with visas, especially from Canada and for student visas, does not mean I want them to! That is an illogical assumption.

Many of the 9/11 were here legally! And whose fault was that?? The goverments!!! Many more like them are still in this country. There are more hiding under the cover of mosques, in places like Portland.

What would you do in these situations?

Well the USA should follow up and have in place some sort of system to track these people (student visa holders or other visa type holders) so once their visas expire they can kick them out. Right now the goverment cant or does not track these people very well!

 

[bellesjoy]

I agree with you that thousands of people have been allowed entry into this country, even legally, by our govt. to our grave detriment! How do we find them now? How do we get rid of them now?

Open the mosques to the light of day! That is what we need to learn from London. They are now opening the mosques and deporting those who are preaching destruction of the country they have imigrated to (legally or otherwise). Freedom of speech ends when they start yelling fire in a crowded theater. I think we are way past that point with these guys. Peace loving Muslims are beginning to understand in London, that they must report what is being done and said in the name of Islam in order to save lives, including theirs.

 

[Karin]

bellesjoy:

I agree with you that thousands of people have been allowed entry into this country, even legally, by our govt. to our grave detriment! How do we find them now? THat is the question of the day…I dont know. How do we get rid of them now? More…???
So who is ultimately to blame for this…the Goverment…they let them in, they lost them and now they cant kick them out because they dont know where they are!

Open the mosques to the light of day! That is what we need to learn from London. They are now opening the mosques and deporting those who are preaching destruction of the country they have imigrated to (legally or otherwise). Freedom of speech ends when they start yelling fire in a crowded theater. I think we are way past that point with these guys. Peace loving Muslims are beginning to understand in London, that they must report what is being done and said in the name of Islam in order to save lives, including theirs. I totally agree…YEAH

HOw would opening mosques to the light of day (so to speak) help here?? I get the Freedom of Speech thing you mentioned but in this country there is also Freedom of Religion and seperation of Church and State…would the laws not need to change for this to work??

 

[gilliam]

Karin:

HOw would opening mosques to the light of day (so to speak) help here?? I get the Freedom of Speech thing you mentioned but in this country there is also Freedom of Religion and seperation of Church and State…would the laws not need to change for this to work??

Remember, a mosque is not the same as a church. Separation of church and state is not an Islamic concept. There is no separation of church and state or any other part of everyday life in strict Islam. There is no reason not to hide bombs in a mosque, for example, if the bombs are going to be used for an activity that the Islamic clerics in the mosque approve of.

 

[Karin]

gilliam:

Remember, a mosque is not the same as a church. Separation of church and state is not an Islamic concept. There is no separation of church and state or any other part of everyday life in strict Islam. There is no reason not to hide bombs in a mosque, for example, if the bombs are going to be used for an activity that the Islamic clerics in the mosque approve of.

ahh…i thought that the rule applied to all houses of worship not just churches.

 

[gilliam]

Karin:

ahh…i thought that the rule applied to all houses of worship not just churches.

It does to a Westerner. It doesn’t to a Muslem. But you are correct, the rule of law is surpreme in Western countries. The question is what do you do when people don’t play by Western rules?

Usually, you add a corollary…

 

[bellesjoy]

There is no freedom of speech to call for the death or destruction of innocent people. Inciting others to do harm or kill is not protected speech.

The only reason the clerics who did this kind of thing in London before 7/7 were allowed to continue is because of political correctness. They did not want the growing Muslim commuity in the UK to call them bigots or profilers. That attitude has changed now. It is too bad it took so many lives to put a stop to it.

The same would hold true in our country. The church/state issue and freedom of speech and religion are not diminished by taking such action. No laws need to be changed in that regard.

 

[MikeWM]

bellesjoy:

The only reason the clerics who did this kind of thing in London before 7/7 were allowed to continue is because of political correctness.

I don’t believe this is necessarily true. If people can do it openly, they are less likely to do it behind closed doors. And if they do it openly, they can be watched and tracked more easily by the security services. I think there was value in letting them say what they did openly. We don’t know how many other attacks such surveillance may have prevented.

Mike

 

[Brad]

MikeWM:

Only in some things. If all motor vehicles were limited to 20mph in urban areas, thousands of lives would be saved every year.

Mike

I wasn’t speaking relatively. I was speaking of the way that is right and good. If you had adequate information that proved this fact, the the speed limit should be changed to 20mph.

 

[bellesjoy]

MikeWM:

I don’t believe this is necessarily true. If people can do it openly, they are less likely to do it behind closed doors. And if they do it openly, they can be watched and tracked more easily by the security services. I think there was value in letting them say what they did openly. We don’t know how many other attacks such surveillance may have prevented.

Mike

You make a good point and I guess we will personally not know the answers, but there is also the teaching of young men that goes on in the mosques that poisons young minds and keeps a steady stream of hatred flowing. The British are seeking to cut that off as well. Can’t blame your govt. Hope we do the same

 

[MikeWM]

Brad:

I wasn’t speaking relatively. I was speaking of the way that is right and good. If you had adequate information that proved this fact, the the speed limit should be changed to 20mph.

Well, it is a fact (UK Home Office) that if you hit someone at 20mph, they are almost certain to live. At 30mph, they are 80% likely to live. At 40mph, they are only 20% likely to live.

My point of course was that some inconvenience is plausible but the entire economic system will only allow so much (which is why, for example, the idea of metal detectors on the London tube is entirely impractical).

Mike