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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
NOOO.
I said what is the problem because I did not understand you post.
I only understood that you did not want to buy a copy of a book that I did not write
Difference Between Eastern Churches on Papal Authority and Anglican Churches
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I said what is the problem because I did not understand you post.
I only understood that you did not want to buy a copy of a book that I did not write
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Peter_J
Guest
Pfaffenhoffen, I have a feeling this conversation is just going to keep going around in circles: you’re going to keep telling people what to do and/or what to think, and they’re going to keep disregarding your directions. I’ve seen it before.
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Nine_Two
Guest
No, its more along the lines of if you say 2+2=5, I don’t care.
But if you say I need to accept 2+2=5 in order to get a degree in History, I have a problem.
If Christ himself had proclaimed this doctrine, then I’d still have issues with holding it as dogma, because it quite simply has nothing to do with Christ.
There certainly is a difference. To deny that she is the Theotokos is to deny that it was God who came out of her womb. To use the term Christotokos avoids the question, even if it doesn’t explicitly deny it.
At one time this was the teaching of the Catholic Church as well. I don’t know if it still is.
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Nine_Two
Guest
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Hesychios
Guest
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andrewstx
Guest
There is indeed a difference. Nestorians call Our Lady Christotokos and not Theotokos.
In a way they divide Jesus into two people and say that Mary gave birth to the human part of Jesus and thus Christotokos.
There was a nestorian Assyrian church in my former city,they would become quite heated about the matter.
Note, they were not in the Catholic Assyrian church. They were part of the Assyrian church of the East.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
What else to do?
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
That was not what you said. You said that the problem was with authority. Now you say the the problem is with error.
OK, then.
So You would be more intelligent than Christ for you knew that Christ was saying something wrong, no?
I do not think you are saying that you are more intelligent than Christ, but did you say that you would have a problem with Christ saying something that had nothing to do what He said?
Just to talk? Just to win the argument? Just to make a sentence funny?
There is not need to avoid the Question. I was saying this for the Immaculate Conception is a small problem compared when we say Theotokos, which is wonderful and which is amazing. A woman MOTHER OF GOD !!!
I am surprised that loving you the Theotokos, would be a problem the Immaculate Conception, which would not blemish one milimeter Christ’s Glory.
I prefer Theotokos. I have Her icon close to my bed, in my computer Desktop, in my heart. I just Love Her.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
I have no problem that you feel that you win.
Not always the winner is right.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Feedback:
Is the show all right?
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
It is not only a question about Mary.
In the Catholic Calendar, there is a Feast that is called:
- Body of Christ in English
- La fiesta del Cuerpo y la Sangre de Cristo in Spanish
- Solennité du corps et du sang du Christ in French
- solennità del santissimo Corpo e Sangue di Cristo in Italian
- Festa do Corpo de Deus in Portuguese
The title was unusual for the time so it was asked the Pope who allowed the use of the Title.
The problem refers to Christ Himself and as a consequence, to Mary too.
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Cavaradossi
Guest
Utterly dissatisfactory.
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Peter_J
Guest
It seems to me that this has become too much of a free-for-all anything-goes conversation.
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Peter_J
Guest
Maybe instead you could tell people what to wear? No guarantee it will be more successful, but worth a shot anyways.
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Hesychios
Guest
When I have nothing more to add to a discussion, I usually say not much more, but I have enjoyed reading this one.
It’s sort of ‘B’ movie, not bad as a filler.
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Nine_Two
Guest
No, you missd the point entirely (nor did I ever say the issue was authority).
Give the equation whatever answer you want. I gave it five because thats what it looks like from my position, you gave it four because thats what you think it equates to. Either way it has absolutely nothing to do with history.
Similarly the Immaculate Conception does not reflect on Christ and therefore doesn’t matter, no matter what the answer is. That is why I don’t care what others believe, but do take issue with people forcing the answer on others.
If you don’t believe I am saying I’m more intelligent than Christ, why did you write that?
If Christ had said it, and we are speaking in theoreticals, I would accept that it was true. I would accept it as doctrine. I just wouldn’t accept it as dogma - unless he actually said that one must believe it to have salvation.
Yes, the question of the Immaculate Conception is a small problem compared to the debate between Theotokos/Christotokos - but that debate is not dealing with a small problem at all, it is, at its core about accepting that Jesus was always God.
I’m glad to hear you prefer “Theotokos”, as I said, that is dogma of the Catholic Church - you wouldn’t be a very good Catholic if you rejected the term.
I should have had a dash in there. Win/win is a common idiom to denote that both sides get what they want. It was sarcasm, pure and simply.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Sorry, my English did not get the win/win thing.
I do not know what to reply to you.
I have nothing to say as there is nothing to say.
That is why we say Orthodox are complicated, they can divide and hair.
The only complication here is that the Immaculate Conception is a dogma.
Come on !
If you were a Protestant, I would understand, but with the devotion you have to the Mother of God, come on, you are just seeing division in a hair.
I have nothing to say for there is nothing to say. We are so much in common that i do not see any divisions at all.
The question, I repeat, is with authority, is with the Pope. But is the Pope something extraordinary? Is he the Devil? Is he nowadays a person not respectable like your Bishops? Isn’t He a Bishop like any other Bishop simply who is the center of the Bihops? Even the Archbishop of Westminster and he is an Anglican, told that He would accept the Pope as the Spokesman for all the Anglican Church…
Let us not divide grains of sand…
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Peter_J
Guest
Interesting. Many Catholics say that it is understandable to not be Catholic if one is Orthodox instead, but it’s not understandable to be anything else.
P.S. As far as talking about devotion to the Mother of God, many Anglicans and Lutherans (and note that the latter are nearly always included in the term “Protestant”) have devotions to her as well.
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Nine_Two
Guest
Belief in the Immaculate Conception is not necessary for devotion to the Theotokos. Within Catholicism there were different ideas regarding the topic prior to its recent dogmatization (is that a word?). To say it is contrary to our devotion to Mary is to say that the Catholic Church did not have a devotion to Mary prior to 1854.
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Credo_ergo_sum
Guest
Besides, if you reject augustinian original sin theology the Immaculate Conception doesn’t make much sense either. So if you want the latter you need to accept the former as well.
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