Difference Between Eastern Churches on Papal Authority and Anglican Churches

[Pfaffenhoffen]

No, it is not the same.

Since there is nothing to obey, it would not be a problem unless you choose to make it one.

We have our own synods, with Metropolitans and Patriarchs as our spiritual fathers. We don’t need yours but thanks anyway.

Sorry, you need the Pope.
As you realize, the Pope is not mine.It is the rock upon which the Church OF Jesus Christ is built. It is clearly said in the Gospels, more than once.
By the way I love your Liturgy. My dream would be to be in Easter in Moscow.
Look at this: Rachmaninoff Liturgy Op 31-02

 

[Cavaradossi]

Sorry, you need the Pope.
As you realize, the Pope is not mine.It is the rock upon which the Church OF Jesus Christ is built. It is clearly said in the Gospels, more than once.
By the way I love your Liturgy. My dream would be to be in Easter in Moscow.
Look at this: Rachmaninoff Liturgy Op 31-02

That arrangement was deemed unfit for use in Church, I believe. If you want to hear something more in the spirit of Orthodox worship, listen to Rachmaninoff’s setting of the All-night Vigil.

With that being said, the Orthodox obviously beg to differ about the Pope, and your interpretation of the gospels.

 

[Peter_J]

Are they even official anymore? Last I heard, the Episcopalians had been (threatened to be) kicked out of the Anglican Communion.

Some of the more conservative Anglican provinces have withdrawn / are withdrawing recognition of the ECUSA and ACC. To me, it seems like ‘too little, too late’.

 

[Hesychios]

Sorry, you need the Pope.

We have Peter, you can keep your developed Pope and all of the problems that has caused for the Apostolic faith.

It’s not that we don’t respect the church of Old Rome, but we don’t need it and we certainly cannot follow it while it maintains the errors it does. We can work with it (especially if it can reform itself and return to Holy Orthodoxy) but Orthodoxy is lacking in nothing. The holy Apostolic Catholic faith is truly practiced and expressed best through Holy Orthodoxy. The Catholic Faith subsists in Holy Orthodoxy.

If anyone wants to learn more about the Orthodox Catholic stance on the Papacy there is plenty of literature available if one cares to read it.

One can start with this.

One can read Olivier Clements balanced position in his book in response to Pope John Paul II’s request in his encyclical Ut Unum Sint.

 

[andrewstx]

Indeed. From the Catholic p.o.v., Anglicans are in schism, and so are Orthodox.

Touche. Actually if there was an Eastern Catholic church closer than 400 miles I would be there. But there’s not. I have to go 70 miles even to get to an Orthodox church.

 

[andrewstx]

Some of the more conservative Anglican provinces have withdrawn / are withdrawing recognition of the ECUSA and ACC. To me, it seems like ‘too little, too late’.

Over Robinson?

 

[Peter_J]

Over Robinson?

That’s a relatively recently developement. The ECUSA and ACC have both been ordaining women since the 70s.

 

[Nine_Two]

That’s a relatively recently developement. The ECUSA and ACC have both been ordaining women since the 70s.

Hasn’t the Church of England itself been ordaining women for a while? The issue with the ECUSA and the ACC is that they butt heads with the rest of the Communion on everything. I get the feeling the COE agrees with them on most of these issues but keeps its mouth shut.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

That arrangement was deemed unfit for use in Church, I believe. If you want to hear something more in the spirit of Orthodox worship, listen to Rachmaninoff’s setting of the All-night Vigil.

With that being said, the Orthodox obviously beg to differ about the Pope, and your interpretation of the gospels.

Thanks for the tip.
Do not beg to differ about the Pope. Just obey the Pope! He is not the devil.
It was on that Peter (rock) that Jesus said he would build His Church.
Do not let the “filioque” stand between us.

 

[Peter_J]

One can start with this.

Those letters – the letter of Pope Pius IX and the response from the Orthodox Patriarchs – were written at a particular low point in Catholic-Orthodox relations. I question how relevant they are for us today.

 

[Nine_Two]

Those letters – the letter of Pope Pius IX and the response from the Orthodox Patriarchs – were written at a particular low point in Catholic-Orthodox relations. I question how relevant they are for us today.

While we might choose different terminology in this day and age, I fail to see how the arguments within aren’t valid, at lesast insofar as I saw.

 

[Hesychios]

Hi Peter,

Those letters – the letter of Pope Pius IX and the response from the Orthodox Patriarchs – were written at a particular low point in Catholic-Orthodox relations. I question how relevant they are for us today.

I agree it was a low point in relations, it was a cold war in full flower, but nothing has changed for the better theologically, in fact things are much worse!

This was before Vatican I. In fact it was even before the declaration of the Immaculate Conception. If we can see past the unpleasant vitriol and concentrate on the issues presented it can be very educational, because the issues have not gone away, just the acrimony.

Even if the Papacy was willing to retract the papal dogmas and the IC we would be right there, in 1848 all over again. Would we be more polite to each other this time? … less arrogant? … more understanding and respectful?

One would hope.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

But the theologies would still be incompatible and the ecclesiologies would still be irreconcilable. This is a deep problem, we have really become ontologically different and we can’t sweep that under the rug with pleasant words, hand-holding and smiles.

 

[Nine_Two]

Hi Peter, I agree it was a low point in relations, it was a cold war in full flower, but nothing has changed for the better theologically, in fact things are much worse!

This was before Vatican I. In fact it was even before the declaration of the Immaculate Conception. If we can see past the unpleasant vitriol and concentrate on the issues presented it can be very educational, because the issues have not gone away, just the acrimony.

Even if the Papacy was willing to retract the papal dogmas and the IC we would be right there, in 1848 all over again. Would we be more polite to each other this time? … less arrogant? … more understanding and respectful?

One would hope.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yC5GaphWQ...k/s400/pope-patriarch-trevino-smal-739703.jpg

But the theologies would still be incompatible and the ecclesiologies would still be irreconcilable. This is a deep problem, we have really become ontologically different and we can’t sweep that under the rug with pleasant words, hand-holding and smiles.

It is also when Pius IX was open to compromise on political issues within his own country, I can’t imagine him being closed to compromise on political issues outside.

 

[Peter_J]

Hi Peter, I agree it was a low point in relations, it was a cold war in full flower, but nothing has changed for the better theologically, in fact things are much worse!

I’m quite willing to agree that things have gotten worse in some ways…

 

[Peter_J]

While we might choose different terminology in this day and age, I fail to see how the arguments within aren’t valid, at lesast insofar as I saw.

But the approach that recent Popes have taken toward the Orthodox is very different from Pius IX’s approach.

 

[Nine_Two]

But the approach that recent Popes have taken toward the Orthodox is very different from Pius IX’s approach.

It doesn’t matter, the issues are still there.

The approach of more recent popes certainly helps increase our willingness to dialogue, and we appreciate that.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Hi Peter, I agree it was a low point in relations, it was a cold war in full flower, but nothing has changed for the better theologically, in fact things are much worse!

This was before Vatican I. In fact it was even before the declaration of the Immaculate Conception. If we can see past the unpleasant vitriol and concentrate on the issues presented it can be very educational, because the issues have not gone away, just the acrimony.

Even if the Papacy was willing to retract the papal dogmas and the IC we would be right there, in 1848 all over again. Would we be more polite to each other this time? … less arrogant? … more understanding and respectful?

One would hope.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yC5GaphWQ...k/s400/pope-patriarch-trevino-smal-739703.jpg

But the theologies would still be incompatible and the ecclesiologies would still be irreconcilable. This is a deep problem, we have really become ontologically different and we can’t sweep that under the rug with pleasant words, hand-holding and smiles.

Beautiful photo…

But the theologies would still be incompatible and the ecclesiologies would still be irreconcilable. This is a deep problem, we have really become ontologically different and we can’t sweep that under the rug with pleasant words, hand-holding and smiles.

Totally wrong.
There is only one hurdle: the Pope.
All others were already in the Eastern Theology, including the Immaculate Conception, call it this way or the other.
We are hand-holding.
Please, do not be stubborn. You, the Constantinople People are famous for sticking to little points and do not move from there. Remember the iconoclasts. Thousands died for…nothing…
Remember: there is NOTHING between you and us.

 

[Peter_J]

It doesn’t matter, the issues are still there.

But Catholics generally don’t use the same arguments that Pope Pius IX did anymore.

The approach of more recent popes certainly helps increase our willingness to dialogue, and we appreciate that.

 

[Hesychios]

Remember: there is NOTHING between you and us.

Wow.

This speaks volumes as to why we get these strange comments like “Orthodox are too proud” or “Orthodox WANT to perpetuate the schism” and junk like that. It is simply not true.

If the average Roman Catholic is not willing to face the facts we will never get past these problems and share communion. I think the present Pope understands the problems and their seriousness, but a great many RC laypersons do not.

 

[Nine_Two]

Totally wrong.
There is only one hurdle: the Pope.
All others were already in the Eastern Theology, including the Immaculate Conception, call it this way or the other.
We are hand-holding.
Please, do not be stubborn. You, the Constantinople People are famous for sticking to little points and do not move from there. Remember the iconoclasts. Thousands died for…nothing…
Remember: there is NOTHING between you and us.

I just love it when Latins tell us what we believe. While at the same time demeaningly calling us “Constantinople People”.