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Difference Between Eastern Churches on Papal Authority and Anglican Churches
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Nine_Two
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Not quite a Lenten digression.
dcointin: No one is saying St. Photios was perfect. They’re saying it is disrespectful to refer to him in such a way. If you personally have issues with his teachings, I suggest talking to your priest about it, or bringing the specific teachings up in a thread on its own, but at the very least, please be respectful toward him.
As was pointed out, most of our greatest saints, both East and West, could be called “Controversialists”, that’s what makes them great. They stood up to the enemies of the Church and told it like it was.
Even Christ himself courted controversy everywhere he went.
dcointin: No one is saying St. Photios was perfect. They’re saying it is disrespectful to refer to him in such a way. If you personally have issues with his teachings, I suggest talking to your priest about it, or bringing the specific teachings up in a thread on its own, but at the very least, please be respectful toward him.
As was pointed out, most of our greatest saints, both East and West, could be called “Controversialists”, that’s what makes them great. They stood up to the enemies of the Church and told it like it was.
Even Christ himself courted controversy everywhere he went.
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Peter_J
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dcointin
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I don’t see how saying that Photius was disputatious, to use another word, is anything other than repeating an accepted historical reality. He was notoriously so, as has been stated by many scholars, including Orthodox ones. My problem with the quotation I gave is not that he stood up for the truth, but that he was insulting while doing so, which is a point that the responses to my post have failed to understand. I was making fun of the impression I was getting that to dare criticize anything a saint said or did was to deny his sainthood and judge his holiness, which is obviously ridiculous. My original point, which I’d like to return to, is that both east and west share blame for the schism, a point that no one seems to have disagreed with. I also assure you that I have no particular problems with Photius other than his tendency toward uncharitable argumentation which I’ve already addressed.
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Cavaradossi
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Ok, so long as you admit then that you have problems with Saint Basil for his uncharitable argumentation against the Eunomians, St Athanasius for his uncharitable argumentation against the Arians, St. Maximus the Confessor for his uncharitable argumentation against the monothelites, St. John of Damascus for his uncharitable argumentation against the miaphysites, and St. Augustine for his uncharitable argumentation against the Pelagians, I am ok with your statement.
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Mickey
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And yet you still refer to him as “Photius”…instead of St Photius.
Please have a little respect.
St Photius the Great pray for us!
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Mickey
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…and St John Chrysostom for his letters against the Judaizers…etc, etc, etc.
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mardukm
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I thought brother Don was quite clear in his intent. He compared the appraoch of St. Maximos with that of St. Photius. St. Maximos was humble and admitted that the Latins were hard to understand because of the difference in language yet took his Latin brethren at their word when they said that the filioque does not deny the Father as Source. His approach maintained unity.
St. Photius did not know Latin yet for some reason did not have the humility shown by St. Maximos.
You compare the approach of the two men and I believe brother Don’s conclusions are legitiimate.
Blessings,
Marduk
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Cavaradossi
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Did you even read my post? I definitely didn’t say anything concerning St. Maximus and the Latins.
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Mickey
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Shocking!
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mardukm
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That demonstrates that you missed the point of brother Don’s OP.
Blessings,
Marduk
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Cavaradossi
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You evidently have missed my point. If he is so willing to condemn St. Photius for his anti-Latin polemics, then he should be equally willing and ready to condemn the other Saints whom I enumerated in my post above, all of whom wrote polemical treatises. Besides this, you and I have both gone over the fact that Photius was in fact reinstated to the episcopacy and died at peace with the Church. Why you would choose to try and taint the memory of a man who died at peace with the Church is beyond me.That demonstrates that you missed the point of brother Don’s OP.
Blessings,
Marduk
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Nine_Two
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And as I said, and as others said, you just described Christ and pretty much every major saint. I have my doubts that you would refer to them in such ways.
But whatever.
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Mickey
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Troparion
Follower of the Apostles’ way
And teacher of mankind:
Intercede, O Photius, with the Lord of all,
To grant peace to the world
And to our souls great mercy!
Kontakion
Far-reaching beacon of the Church and God,
inspired Guide of the Orthodox,
you are now crowned with the flowers of song.
You are the divine words of the Spirit’s harp,
the strong adversary of heresy and to whom we cry,
“Hail, all-honorable Photius.”
Follower of the Apostles’ way
And teacher of mankind:
Intercede, O Photius, with the Lord of all,
To grant peace to the world
And to our souls great mercy!
Kontakion
Far-reaching beacon of the Church and God,
inspired Guide of the Orthodox,
you are now crowned with the flowers of song.
You are the divine words of the Spirit’s harp,
the strong adversary of heresy and to whom we cry,
“Hail, all-honorable Photius.”
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Nine_Two
Guest
Credit where credit is due. Mardukm did write “St.”Shocking!
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Mickey
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:tiphat:
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Peter_J
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Okay, I know who Photios (or St. Photios as you Orthodox call him) was, but who’s Brother Don?
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Cavaradossi
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And some Eastern Catholics, who have him on their calendar, believe it or not.
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Peter_J
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Cavaradossi
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I don’t think I’ve ever come across anything as polemical by Pope St. Leo as some of the things I’ve seen by St. John of Damascus. Perhaps Pope St. Leo was just a gentle soul.Oh, I guess my suggestion of adding Pope Leo to your list was a bit superfluous.
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