Differences between Catholic Teaching and the Bible

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Now for my question. I will start off by giving you the same question I have sent to the oplologetics twice now and have not recieved a responce to:

3/21/2008

I have been with the Catholic Church for many years, but have only become a believer in the last 3 years. As I learn more and more about the Word of God and the teaching of the Catholic Church I am more and more bothered by one part of my experience. Out of all of the Masses that I have attended I can only remember 2 times where I have heard the Priest inform us that we should be reading scripture on our own or involved with one of the many bible studies that are offered by the church, once in Mexico and once here in the U.S. I have been asking friends and relatives that are Catholic also and the answers I am hearing are making me very uncomfortable. For the exception of one young man that I met while serving at the Missionary Brothers in LA who was contemplating the Priesthood, everyone else that I have spoken to in the US has told me that they have either never heard or only heard once or twice in there entire life in the Catholic church that they should be in the bible. I know from my relative that their Priest in Mexico does tell them and remind them of the importance of being in the Word of God, but I can’t help but wonder why we are not all being told the same thing. As I have read different parts of the (Catechism of the Catholic Church) and the (The Basic Sixteen Documents of the Vatican Council II) I see that the doctrine is sound and that it requires us to stay in the Word of God. I guess what I am looking for is how I go about notifying the appropriate leaders in the Church that this issue exists either locally or as a issue for the majority of the Church in the U.S.

I would love any and all comments on this as it is of deep concern to me.

In Christ.

I have asked Priests, and Monks, and all I get is silence. Maybe you can answer the the question above or at least why everyone I speak to is silent?
A homily is meant to be an extremely significant part of the mass that explains the Scripture of that particular mass in way that the parishioners can live it out. If the Church didn’t want us to read or study the Bible, why would homilies be said at mass? Each mass includes an OT reading, a Psalm, an Epistle, and the Gospel. Even though the Bible should be read daily, what is read at mass is probably more read by the average Christian. The homily is not the place to promote Bible studies, that is reserved for the bulletin. And most priests probably assume, as they should, that most Catholics at that mass are already studying the Bible on their own. If a priest discovers that is a problem, then I’m sure it will be addressed. But, a lack in studying Scripture should not be an issue for devout Catholics, that is why it is not addressed in homilies.
 
Originally Posted by **He lives **
The Bible is the Word of God written for us as all scripture was written" All scriptue is God breathed" there are several instances where the Saint Paul referes to the existing scripture and when he states something that was not covered he mentions that this was his opinion on the subject, but the scripture that blatenly tells us that we should not add or take away from the bible is in the last couple of paragraphs in the book of revalations. Also the scriptues existed well before the Catholic church or even the opostles existed. I wlecome any responce that you may have.

The New Testament wasn’t even written yet when Paul wrote his letters! So, which scriptures was he referring to?
 
Originally Posted by **He lives **
The Bible is the Word of God written for us as all scripture was written" All scriptue is God breathed" there are several instances where the Saint Paul referes to the existing scripture and when he states something that was not covered he mentions that this was his opinion on the subject, but the scripture that blatenly tells us that we should not add or take away from the bible is in the last couple of paragraphs in the book of revalations. Also the scriptues existed well before the Catholic church or even the opostles existed. I wlecome any responce that you may have.

The New Testament wasn’t even written yet when Paul wrote his letters! So, which scriptures was he referring to?
Now if i can say one thing on this statement, Yes scriptures were written but that was the whole reason for them, to form the Catholic CHurch. That is why Jesus came down to save us from our sins, and to form a Church to show us how. That is the whole reason for the Church. But the Church was built on Scripture, and the Church was around alot longer than the bible. But what it the CC, The word of God. Scrikpture!
 
Now if i can say one thing on this statement, Yes scriptures were written but that was the whole reason for them, to form the Catholic CHurch. That is why Jesus came down to save us from our sins, and to form a Church to show us how. That is the whole reason for the Church. But the Church was built on Scripture, and the Church was around alot longer than the bible. But what it the CC, The word of God. Scrikpture!
**The WORD OF GOD IS JESUS CHRIST.

Jesus did not say “I AM A BOOK.”

But He said that we would be His body - His Church.** 🙂
 
I’m actually surprised at the question. And let me say emphatically, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your faith.

The context is that someone asked when I was going to join the Catholic Church.

I responded that when I compare the Bible vs. the Teachings of the Catholic Church I see huge differences.

RickO spun out this thread to discuss the topic.

Since Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura, why would you question this position?

But to begin a discussion, the list is so very long.

Where can I read about “Holy Water” with people dipping their fingers into it and making the sign of the cross in the Bible?
Where is “sola escriptura” in the bible?
 
Originally Posted by **BibleSteve **
*I’m actually surprised at the question. And let me say emphatically, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your faith.

The context is that someone asked when I was going to join the Catholic Church.

I responded that when I compare the Bible vs. the Teachings of the Catholic Church I see huge differences.

RickO spun out this thread to discuss the topic.

Since Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura, why would you question this position?

But to begin a discussion, the list is so very long.

Where can I read about “Holy Water” with people dipping their fingers into it and making the sign of the cross in the Bible?*

**Sec.1668. "Sacramentals are instituted for the sanctification of certain ministries of the Church, certain states of life, a great variety of circumstances in Christian life, and the use of many things helpful to man. In accordance with bishops’ pastoral decisions, they can also respond to the needs, culture, and special history of the Christian people of a particular region or time. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a specific sign, such as the laying on of hands, the sign of the cross, or the sprinkling of holy water (which recalls Baptism). " Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The blessing of water [at] Mass on Sunday and the sprinkling of the congregation with it, which ceremony is called the “Asperges,” goes back to the ninth century, and possibly even further. The word Asperges is the opening word of a verse of Psalm 50, which is recited … as follows: “Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop, O Lord, and I shall be cleansed; Thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow.” [See Ps. 50:9 in the Douay Rheims version, or Ps 51 in the NAB or other modern versions, and footnote 3 in the NAB.]

The custom of placing holy water at the door of the church for the use of the faithful is still more ancient. Among the Jews a ceremony of purification was required before entering the Temple to assist at the sacrifices, and this undoubtedly suggested the Catholic practice of using holy water at the church door. It has been used since the 2nd century and was continued in the Church by early Christians, who were Jews. The Church has retained the practice.

In the Middle Ages it was customary to use holy water when entering the church, but not when leaving it – the idea being that purification was necessary before entering the house of God, but that after assisting at the Holy Sacrifice it was no longer needed. However, the general practice now is to take it both on entering and departing**

I hope this answers your question.
 
Dollars to doughnuts "He Lives "is an evangelical fundamentalist posing as a Catholic. They’re the new ones who think they shock us by telling us something they think we never heard of before. You can tell by his use of “God-breathed.” Some used “inerrant-inspired” It is obvious he knows nothing about the CC Church. His question that priests don’t preach from the pulpit that we should read the Bible show that he doesn’t know that there are several readings from the Bible before the Homily. He also does not understand that priests give HOMILIES not SERMONS. Homilies talk about the Scriptures, sermons spout personal views. The fact that when he asks priests and monks why not, and they answer in silence?? Give me break. I don’t believe a minute of it.
 
I asked for information in the Bible about:
  1. The practice of dipping your finger in “holy water” and making the sign of a cross
  2. Purgatory
  3. The use of Rosaries in prayer.
I reviewed the information provided and personally found it to be very weak.

There’s no example in the Bible of #1, a bunch of scriptures were provided that didn’t show the name or concept of Purgatory at all, and some very weak evidence was provided trying to justify repetitive prayers. No evidence was provided about some beaded thing with a cross on it.

Any discussion on the differences between the Bible and the practices of the Catholic Church will ultimately find it’s way to the Catholic belief that it isn’t a problem because Catholics don’t limit themselves to Scripture alone, but feel just fine with “Sacred Tradition”.

I simply hold what the Bible says as a higher authority. You can choose otherwise.
It seem to me that no matter how many scriptures we all give you will always find something to protest because the exact word is not there, show me sola escritura in the bible?
 
Dollars to doughnuts "He Lives "is an evangelical fundamentalist posing as a Catholic. They’re the new ones who think they shock us by telling us something they think we never heard of before. You can tell by his use of “God-breathed.” Some used “inerrant-inspired” It is obvious he knows nothing about the CC Church. His question that priests don’t preach from the pulpit that we should read the Bible show that he doesn’t know that there are several readings from the Bible before the Homily. He also does not understand that priests give HOMILIES not SERMONS. Homilies talk about the Scriptures, sermons spout personal views. The fact that when he asks priests and monks why not, and they answer in silence?? Give me break. I don’t believe a minute of it.
Neither do I…too many fundamentalist “buzz-words” in his posts LOL
 
I asked for information in the Bible about:
  1. The practice of dipping your finger in “holy water” and making the sign of a cross
  2. Purgatory
  3. The use of Rosaries in prayer.
I reviewed the information provided and personally found it to be very weak.

There’s no example in the Bible of #1, a bunch of scriptures were provided that didn’t show the name or concept of Purgatory at all, and some very weak evidence was provided trying to justify repetitive prayers. No evidence was provided about some beaded thing with a cross on it.

Any discussion on the differences between the Bible and the practices of the Catholic Church will ultimately find it’s way to the Catholic belief that it isn’t a problem because Catholics don’t limit themselves to Scripture alone, but feel just fine with “Sacred Tradition”.

I simply hold what the Bible says as a higher authority. You can choose otherwise.
  1. Holy Water I won’t even bother listing all the passages in OT and NT that show instances of sacred or holy water being used. One of many passages is the story of Christ healing the man who was trying to use the Pool at Bethsada for healing. Why would water ever be a requirement for Baptism if it cannot be blessed? Making the sign of the cross is blessing yourself in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is a great thing to constantly bless ourselves in the name of the Trinity. You yourself believe the Trinity, yet do you see the word Trinity in the Bible? No.
**2. Purgatory: **A purging of one’s sins, or cleansing, is required for one to enter heaven according to Rev. 21:27, nothing unclean shall enter the presence of God in heaven. Further Scipture also proves this: “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Heb. 9:27), “I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59), you must be cleansed of the impurity that was caused by your sins. The most obvious passage is from the Book of Maccabees, part of your Apocrypha, which coincidentally, is not considered canoncal by Protestants. Luther was the first to state that these books weren’t canoncal, simply out of anger that they disagreed with his man-made theology. He attempted to defy most of early church fathers who formulated the Bible at the Council of Carthage; give me a break.

2 Mc 12:42-46
Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Even the OT is clear that a temporal punishements is required even though we are forgiven of our sins:

Num 14:20-23
The Lord answered (Moses): “I pardon them as you have asked. Yet, by my life and the Lord’s glory that fills the whole earth, of all the men who have seen my glory and the signs I worked in Egypt and in the desert, and who nevertheless have put me to the test ten times already and have failed to heed my voice, not one shall see the land which I promised on oath to their fathers. None of these who have spurned me shall see it.”

2 Sam 12:13-14
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.”

1 Cor 11:29-32
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
**
3. Rosary: **The Rosary derives from the early Christian Church, specifically in Ireland, where uneducated lay people wanted to recite the 150 Psalms daily as the Monks did. However, they could not read, and therefore, said 150 Our Fathers instead. To count how many Our Fathers were said, people carried small pebbles in pouches, 150 for each Psalm. It was a simple way of remembering how many Our Fathers were said. This act was done to live a life of daily prayer and reverence. Eventually this became the Rosary, which includes Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be, and the Apostles Creed. Even though it is recommended, the Rosary is not a doctrine of the Church nor it is a requirement for anyone to say it. The Church simply teaches it will greatly enrich one’s relationship with God through prayer.

Finally, remember that the apostles preached by the tradition of word of mouth before even writing the NT. The first Gospel composed, which is that of St. Mark, wasn’t even written until about 70 AD. Did the apostles just act as couch potatoes for the time leading up to their writing of the Gospels? Certaintly not. Tradition predates the NT, that is why we believe in the importance of sacred tradition.
 
yOU KNOW WHAT GUYS, IM NOT SURE BUT I HAVE A FEELING NOW THAT ALOT OF THIS STUFF IS COMMING FROM THIS NEW RELIGON THAT OPRAH IS TRYING TO START. IM NOT SURE BUT WHEN YOU START HEARING THINK FOR YOURSELF, STEP OUT OF THE BOX, ETC, YOU ARE GOING TO START HEARING IT ALL OVER THE PLACE. THATS WHERE ITS STEMMING FROM. I NEVER HEARD OF IT BUT I GOT AN EMAIL NOT LONG AGO. I JUST STARTED A THREAD TO SEE IFANYONE ELSE EVER HEARD OF IT. SORRY TO GET OFF OF THE SUBJECT BUT I THINK IN A WAY THATS WHAT THIS MAY BE ABOUT. LIKE I SAID BEWARE, THATS WHAT ALOT OF THESE POSTS ARE ABOUT NOW. NOW IF I AM WRONG TO THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS ONE I APOLOGIZE. BUT IFTHIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS MIRACLES ANGELS OR SOMETHING ITS JUST A WAY TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD. ITS SAD.
 
Originally Posted by BibleSteve
A bunch of scriptures were provided that didn’t show the name or concept of Purgatory at all

The name of ‘Trinity’ and ‘Incarnation’ are not in the Bible, either, so I guess you don’t believe in those.
 
yOU KNOW WHAT GUYS, IM NOT SURE BUT I HAVE A FEELING NOW THAT ALOT OF THIS STUFF IS COMMING FROM THIS NEW RELIGON THAT OPRAH IS TRYING TO START. IM NOT SURE BUT WHEN YOU START HEARING THINK FOR YOURSELF, STEP OUT OF THE BOX, ETC, YOU ARE GOING TO START HEARING IT ALL OVER THE PLACE. THATS WHERE ITS STEMMING FROM. I NEVER HEARD OF IT BUT I GOT AN EMAIL NOT LONG AGO. I JUST STARTED A THREAD TO SEE IFANYONE ELSE EVER HEARD OF IT. SORRY TO GET OFF OF THE SUBJECT BUT I THINK IN A WAY THATS WHAT THIS MAY BE ABOUT. LIKE I SAID BEWARE, THATS WHAT ALOT OF THESE POSTS ARE ABOUT NOW. NOW IF I AM WRONG TO THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS ONE I APOLOGIZE. BUT IFTHIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS MIRACLES ANGELS OR SOMETHING ITS JUST A WAY TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD. ITS SAD.
LOL - It’s funny you should mention this because these are ‘Oprahisms’ that you hear constantly on her show - “think for yourself”, “step out of the box”, etc. You are right on!
 
**2. Purgatory: **A purging of one’s sins, or cleansing, is required for one to enter heaven according to Rev. 21:27, nothing unclean shall enter the presence of God in heaven. Further Scipture also proves this: “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Heb. 9:27), “I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59), you must be cleansed of the impurity that was caused by your sins. The most obvious passage is from the Book of Maccabees, part of your Apocrypha, which coincidentally, is not considered canoncal by Protestants. Luther was the first to state that these books weren’t canoncal, simply out of anger that they disagreed with his man-made theology. He attempted to defy most of early church fathers who formulated the Bible at the Council of Carthage; give me a break.
How does one explain that the Eastern Orthodox do not accept Purgatory?
 
How does one explain that the Eastern Orthodox do not accept Purgatory?
They have interpreted the passages differently and believe in what is called “particular judgement”. This means that a dead soul is judged from the 3rd to the 40th day after death. The soul then awaits final judgement when it will be reunited with its body either in heaven or hell. Souls that enter hell before final judgement can be lifted out of hell by the prayers and offerings of the church.
 
How does one explain that the Eastern Orthodox do not accept Purgatory?
**If you read the definition correctly, you will see that purgatory IS A STATE OF ONE’S SOUL, NOT A PLACE. And you will not find it stated as a ‘place’ in the CCC. And you will not find it AS A PLACE in Scripture.

Eastern Orthodox (as a general rule) do believe that a soul MAY go through a purification process after death before entrance into Heaven. They get around this by postulating various ‘levels’ of Heaven which is basically the same thing.

The doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the *Mourner’s Kaddish *for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians. **
 
**If you read the definition correctly, you will see that purgatory IS A STATE OF ONE’S SOUL, NOT A PLACE. And you will not find it stated as a ‘place’ in the CCC. And you will not find it AS A PLACE in Scripture.

Eastern Orthodox (as a general rule) do believe that a soul MAY go through a purification process after death before entrance into Heaven. They get around this by postulating various ‘levels’ of Heaven which is basically the same thing.

The doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the *Mourner’s Kaddish ***for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.
Why is it not a heresy if Eastern Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory, but it is a heresy if a Protestant does not believe in Purgatory.
 
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