Differences between Catholic Teaching and the Bible

[Claudius]

I started this thread at the request of BibleSteve who stated that there were differences between Catholic teaching and the Bible. So if anyone knows of any such difference, please list them here. Please be brief and clear on each point.

There are no teachings of the Catholic Church that contradict the Bible. The Bible exist because it supports Catholic teaching. The Bible is a tool created by the Catholic Church with the help of the Holy Spirit to help inspire Catholic to deeper and greater faith. However, even if we did not have a Bible, we would be ok bacause our Sacred Tradition, the handing on of Sacred Truth, is firmly established in the Catholic Church. The Bible is one part, just one part, of Sacred Tradition. The Bible is not the most important thing in the Catholic Faith and never will be and shouldn’t be. The Eucharist is the most important thing in Catholic faith because it is not a thing at all. It is Jesus himself coming and being with us and being in us. Jesus is God’s word. The Bible is a tool to help teach people about Jesus. Jesus is not help captive by the pages of a dead object. Jesus is alive and is in us. Our Bishops also preach the word of God when they give a homily. The Bible support the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church does not exist because someone picked up a bible and said, “oh, this makes some sense, let’s al do that.”

 

[Claudius]

I will also add that even while there is not a single teaching of the Catholic Church that contradicts the legitimate Bible, complete and whole without Luther’s evil hands on it, there are huge, blaring contradictions between what the bible says and what protestants believe. This is why I could never allow myself to ever join a protestant church before I was a Catholic. They claimed that the Bible had all of the answers but them always, every single church I investigated for four year, every last one, contradicted the Bible openly with crazy statements by their founders of why they could interpret the clear language of the bible to mean the exact OPPOSITE from what the Bible actually says. Every single protestant religion does this. EVERY LAST ONE. So much for Sola Scriptora. This is only a lie that protestants use to attack Catholics or to try to wissle out and say that they don’t want to accept the authority of the Church. Once out of the Catholic presance, they throw Sola Scriptura out the window. I have yet to find even one, even one protestant “church” that accepted all of the bible and obeyed all of the bible. They pick and choose this and that.

So to the guy that says he didn’t want to become a Catholic because he say differences, you need to get a REAL BIBLE, then you need to be instructed in what the Catholic Church actually teaches and then you need to be honest with yourself , realize that you reason for not being Catholic is the exact reason you should not be a protestant and show some intellectual integrity and join the Catholic Church which is the Church Jesus founded and the one He desires you to be in.

 

[holy_wood]

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[RedSoxFan]

Hi

There are differences , in my opinion, in the teachings of the Catholics with the NTBible but also of the Protestants on their merit with the concepts of Jesus to start with. I think, both Catholics and Protestants are more of a follower of Paul rather than Jesus in beliefs as well as practices.

Thanks

Are you seeing the differences because your basing your concept of Jesus from the Koran or the Bible? Or is it your understanding of Jesus after reading the Bible and you see what you think is Christians following Paul more so than Jesus?

 

[ljprevo]

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[wmscott]

I wish people would come to the realization that just because something is not specifically named within Scripture does not mean that it is not a reality. My question to you is which came first, the Bible or the Church. I hope that you understand and accept the fact that the Bible was not “put together” until some 300 years after Christ (at least the Bible that we use today). Therefore, it was THE CHURCH that taught, it was THE CHURCH that was recognized as the “Pillar of Truth.” It was even THE CHURCH that compiled and established the Bible. Today, we have so many that look at that same CHURCH and speak ill of its teachings simply because some of those teachings are not specifically mentioned in the same Bible that the same CHURCH established. How illogical is that?!
Incidentally, show me where in the Bible it says that we are to use only scripture to determine Truth.

Tietjen, you beat me to it , what really gets me frustrated is those who spout off about “where in the Bible does it say that or not say that” and these are the very same people who rely so heavily on the Bible yet have little or no clue as to it’s origin, it’s history, or who wrote what. Yet the very same Bible, KJV or Catholic, is specifically cited by the authors that not all that Christ taught was recorded. Obviously, there is so much more that Christ taught that the Bible that they like to hold over everybody’s head, if all was recorded, would be too massive. Never mind the fact that the Bible does specifically cite Scared Tradition and compels us to hold fast to them. I guess folks just like to cherry pick to support their own personal interpretation of the Bible.

 

[wmscott]

ok tho=is college student should really go to bed so I calling it quits for the night. Hope I helped.

Good job holy_wood, I guess my next question is BibleSteve, if he is so visceral about Scripture only, where is he when you give him what he wants, verse by verse. I guess to non-Catholics it’s hard to comprehend that Scared Scripture and Sacred Tradition are closely tied together. In addition, that through Christ’s Church that he established here on earth has been faithfully guided by the Holy Spirit even unto today the truth continues to endure. just my opinion.

 

[BibleSteve]

Good job holy_wood, I guess my next question is BibleSteve, if he is so visceral about Scripture only, where is he when you give him what he wants, verse by verse. I guess to non-Catholics it’s hard to comprehend that Scared Scripture and Sacred Tradition are closely tied together. In addition, that through Christ’s Church that he established here on earth has been faithfully guided by the Holy Spirit even unto today the truth continues to endure. just my opinion.

I asked for information in the Bible about:

1. The practice of dipping your finger in “holy water” and making the sign of a cross
2. Purgatory
3. The use of Rosaries in prayer.

I reviewed the information provided and personally found it to be very weak.

There’s no example in the Bible of #1, a bunch of scriptures were provided that didn’t show the name or concept of Purgatory at all, and some very weak evidence was provided trying to justify repetitive prayers. No evidence was provided about some beaded thing with a cross on it.

Any discussion on the differences between the Bible and the practices of the Catholic Church will ultimately find it’s way to the Catholic belief that it isn’t a problem because Catholics don’t limit themselves to Scripture alone, but feel just fine with “Sacred Tradition”.

I simply hold what the Bible says as a higher authority. You can choose otherwise.

 

[wmscott]

I asked for information in the Bible about:

1. The practice of dipping your finger in “holy water” and making the sign of a cross
2. Purgatory
3. The use of Rosaries in prayer.

I reviewed the information provided and personally found it to be very weak.

There’s no example in the Bible of #1, a bunch of scriptures were provided that didn’t show the name or concept of Purgatory at all, and some very weak evidence was provided trying to justify repetitive prayers. No evidence was provided about some beaded thing with a cross on it.

Any discussion on the differences between the Bible and the practices of the Catholic Church will ultimately find it’s way to the Catholic belief that it isn’t a problem because Catholics don’t limit themselves to Scripture alone, but feel just fine with “Sacred Tradition”.

I simply hold what the Bible says as a higher authority. You can choose otherwise.

And the problem is???

Sacred Tradition is Biblical, when used with Sacred Scripture then there is the fullness of truth!!!

 

[BibleSteve]

And the problem is???
Sacred Tradition is Biblical, when used with Sacred Scripture then there is the fullness of truth!!!

I just don’t agree that any church organization should have a “blank check” to make up core doctrines that aren’t found in the Bible. I allow for churches to interpret things as they choose and I don’t demand that every little nuance of activity be described in the Bible, but doctrine’s like Purgatory certainly should.

We don’t have to agree and I’m not going to spend time trying to convince you otherwise.

On what is the teaching of purgatory based?

After reviewing what Catholic writers have said regarding such texts as 2 Maccabees 12:39-45, Matthew 12:32, and 1*Corinthians 3:10-15, the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. XI, p. 1034) acknowledges: “In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not Sacred Scripture.”

“The church has relied on **tradition **to support a middle ground between heaven and hell.”—U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 7.

Regarding the nature of purgatory, what do Catholic spokesmen say?

“Many think that the total suffering of purgatory is identified with the awareness of the temporary postponement of the beatific vision, although the more common view holds that, in addition to this, there is some positive punishment ... In the Latin Church it has been generally maintained that this pain is imposed through real fire. This is not, however, essential to belief in purgatory. It is not even certain. ... Even if one chooses, with the theologians of the East, to reject the idea of suffering induced by fire, one should be careful not to exclude all positive suffering from purgatory. There are still real affliction, sorrow, chagrin, shame of conscience, and other spiritual sorrows capable of inflicting true pain on the soul. ... One should remember, at any rate, that in the midst of their sufferings these souls also experience great joy over the certainty of salvation.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XI, p. 1036,*1037.

“What goes on in purgatory is anyone’s guess.”—U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 9.

 

[BibleSteve]

And as for the rosary or prayer beads, I haven’t seen anyone support this practice with Scripture.

Most people who use the Rosary believe that the practice originated with Christianity. However, historical evidence shows that the practice of reciting prayers and counting them on a string of beads predated the beginning of Christianity. Commenting on the origin of the Rosary, The World Book Encyclopedia reports: “Prayer beads are of ancient origin, and were probably first used by the Buddhists. Both Buddhists and Muslims make use of them in their prayers.” The Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges that prayer beads were universally familiar to non-Christians for centuries and were in use long before the Catholic Church adopted the Rosary.

newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

This is a non-Biblical practice that predates Christianity.

So in summary, the person who opened this thread (and didn’t participate) specifically asked me why I hadn’t become a Catholic and I explained I noted big differences between what the Bible taught and what the Catholic Church taught.

I think I’ve illustrated why I feel as I do and don’t plan on arguing the point with others who have a different opinion.

 

[lukewarm]

*You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me.*

When I was Catholic I kinda ignored this but could never get around it, when people are crowning statues and parading them in the streets, burning candles and praying before them, kissing them and rubbing them and even crying before these statues how is this not idolatry?

 

[ABostonCatholic]

And as for the rosary or prayer beads, I haven’t seen anyone support this practice with Scripture.

Most people who use the Rosary believe that the practice originated with Christianity. However, historical evidence shows that the practice of reciting prayers and counting them on a string of beads predated the beginning of Christianity. Commenting on the origin of the Rosary, The World Book Encyclopedia reports: “Prayer beads are of ancient origin, and were probably first used by the Buddhists. Both Buddhists and Muslims make use of them in their prayers.” The Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges that prayer beads were universally familiar to non-Christians for centuries and were in use long before the Catholic Church adopted the Rosary.

newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

This is a non-Biblical practice that predates Christianity.

So in summary, the person who opened this thread (and didn’t participate) specifically asked me why I hadn’t become a Catholic and I explained I noted big differences between what the Bible taught and what the Catholic Church taught.

I think I’ve illustrated why I feel as I do and don’t plan on arguing the point with others who have a different opinion.

So you’re saying that because prayer beads were used by non-Christians before Christians, it is non-Biblical?

That’s some of the worst logic I’ve ever seen.

Let’s see what else we can conclude…

The printing press predates the founding of the JWs and was used by Catholics, therefore, JWs should not use printed material.

The Bible says nothing about using the internet, and we all know that the internet is used for smut and the promotion of false religion, therefore we should not use the internet.

Water was used in non-JudeoChristian religious ceremonies before the Bible was written. Therefore, water should not be used in Baptism.

Etc.

 

[BibleSteve]

So you’re saying that because prayer beads were used by non-Christians before Christians, it is non-Biblical?

That’s some of the worst logic I’ve ever seen.

Let’s see what else we can conclude…

The printing press predates the founding of the JWs and was used by Catholics, therefore, JWs should not use printed material.

The Bible says nothing about using the internet, and we all know that the internet is used for smut and the promotion of false religion, therefore we should not use the internet.

Water was used in non-JudeoChristian religious ceremonies before the Bible was written. Therefore, water should not be used in Baptism.

Etc.

Listen, if you want to chant repetitive prayers with prayer beads, go ahead. There are plenty of other pagan religions that do that, so you have plenty of company. (Bahai’s, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, Nazorean Gnostics, etc.)

However, there are people who understand Jesus’ simple words against repetitive prayers and choose not to use worship devices and rituals that were borrowed from pagan religions.

These people choose not to become Catholics. It’s as simple as that.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Listen, if you want to chant repetitive prayers with prayer beads, go ahead. There are plenty of other pagan religions that do that, so you have plenty of company. (Bahai’s, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, Nazorean Gnostics, etc.)

However, there are people who understand Jesus’ simple words against repetitive prayers and choose not to use worship devices and rituals that were borrowed from pagan religions.

These people choose not to become Catholics. It’s as simple as that.

And if you want to read religious texts, go ahead. There are plenty of other pagan religions that do that, so you have plenty of company. (Bahai’s, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, Nazorean Gnostics, etc.)

No, I’m not opposed to reading the Bible of course, but I am opposed to your logic, that if Pagans have beads, therefore Christians cannot.

Do you read a Bible verse more than once? Shame on you! You’re repeating your prayer! Have you ever said “Lord, help me” or “I love you!” to God multiple times? Shame on you! Have you ever sung a hymn with a chorus that repeats itself? Shame on you! You’re just praying repetitive prayers.

Be careful, too, of Psalm 118. Some of the repetition there sounds too much like a short litany.

Oh, wait, Jesus said not to pray with “mindless repetition”? Never mind.

I’m sorry to be so harsh with you, but how far do you really want to carry your logic out?

 

[14er]

I just don’t agree that any church organization should have a “blank check” to make up core doctrines that aren’t found in the Bible. I allow for churches to interpret things as they choose and I don’t demand that every little nuance of activity be described in the Bible, .

Like the use of holy water and rosaries?

 

[Yerusalyim]

Bible Steve,

Where do we find the condept that all doctrine must originate from scripture.
We don’t.
Where do we find the use of computers in the bible?
We Don’t.
Where do we find the use of Holy Water in the bible? You’ve been shown scripture…
Dipping one’s hand into the holy water and making the sign of the cross as we leave and enter church calls to mind our baptism, our baptismal promises…so I have to ask you, show me where SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION (because Paul, in the bible, tells us the importance of TRADITION…and the fact that THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth), so, show me,in Scripture and Tradition, where using holy water is prohibited. We’ve seen examples of water set aside for special use, we’ve seen the importance of calling to mind our baptism…so unless you can show these things to be CLEARLY WRONG…you have no arguement.

Your dismisal of the doctrine of Purgatory is ridiculous since your church rejects hell and that Christians will share heaven with Christ…even though the bible CLEARLY teaches both the existence of HELL as a place and that Christians will be in Heaven with Christ…not just the 144000. Plenty of scriptures were given that CLEARLY relate the concept of purgatory…a concept I suggest you don’t understand. Pray tell, what do you think the Catholic Church teaches about PURGATORY?

The Rosary: Not a doctrine of the Church, no one is required to pray the Rosary…it was developed in the middle ages because the poor unlettered peasants wanted to be able to pray along with the monks and priests…the monks and priests prayed the Psalms…all 150 of them…the unlettered who couldn’t read began to pray the 150 Hail Mary’s of the Rosary. That is it’s historical development. Have others used beads to pray? Sure, just as other have used bread and wine in religious ceremonies LONG before the Jews…much less the JWs.

You stated:

I just don’t agree that any church organization should have a “blank check” to make up core doctrines that aren’t found in the Bible

and yet your a JW, full of NONBIBLICAL doctrines…I LOVE the irony.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Bible Steve wrote:

However, there are people who understand Jesus’ simple words against repetitive prayers and choose not to use worship devices and rituals that were borrowed from pagan religions.

You are so VERY wrong…the Memorial…is based on the passover…which is predated by pagan rituals in which lambs were slaughtered and bread and wine shared…even your memorial has PAGAN ROOTS…study history…without Watchtower helps.
You have a problem with people praying scripture (which is what the Hail Mary is, a prayer based on scripture)…yet you and your ilk violate an even greater commandment by using the Lord’s name for Vain Purposes.

 

[blossom02]

catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp

The Rosary is all about Jesus and is meditation on Scripture.

 

[VWcrazy]

[However, there are people who understand Jesus’ simple words against repetitive prayers and choose not to use worship devices and rituals that were borrowed from pagan religions.
/QUOTE]

Once again, BibleSteve doesn’t get it quite right. Jesus’ words were against vain and repetitious prayers - not repetitous prayers.