Differences between Catholic Teaching and the Bible

[holy_wood]

There is evidence that the Jews believed in a form of purgatory in addition to Maccabees, but called it Gehinom. “According to Judaism, the purifying process that a sullied soul undergoes to cleanse it from its spiritual uncleanliness is a temporary one, and is restorative in its intent, and not punitive, as many mistakenly believe. Ultimately, all Jews have portion in the World to Come, as do Righteous Gentiles, non-Jews who observe the Seven Noahide Commandments.”

Rabbi Eliezer Danzinger
chabad.org/library/articl…-teachings.htm

Orthodox Jewish practices, which branched off from the Old Testament religion, to this day reflect belief in this “place” of final purification which they call Gehenom: when an Orthodox Jewish person dies, a ritual called the taharah is performed by the “Chevra kaddisha – gmilat khessed shel emet,” the “Holy Society” or “Burial Society” of Jews knowledgeable in these traditional duties. They cleanse and prepare the physical body and recite the required prayers (Chevra Kadisha) which ask God for forgiveness for any sins the departed may have committed, and beg Him to guard and grant eternal peace to the departed. For eleven months after the death of a loved one certain members of the family pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Qaddish (or Kaddish) for their loved one’s purification.

Even the The Talmud1 speaks of Purgatory: Sabbath 33b:

"The judgment of the wicked in purgatory is twelve months."

Rosh HaShanah 16b-17a:
"It has been taught that the school of Shammai says: “There will be three groups on Judgment Day (yom haDin):
(1) one that is completely righteous,
(2) one that is completely wicked,
(3) and one that is in between.”

The completely righteous will be recorded and sealed at once for eternal life.

The completely wicked will be recorded and doomed at once to Gehinnom, as it says:

“And many who sleep in the dust of the earth shall rise up, some to eternal life and some to shame and eternal rejection” [Daniel 12:2].

Those in between will go down to Gehinnom and cry out and rise up, as it says:

“And I will bring the third part through the fire and refine them as silver is refined and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name and I will answer them”** [Zechariah 13:9]**

continue’d

 

[holy_wood]

continue’d

Rabbi Shammai (50 BC - AD 30), one of the two main teachers of early rabbinical Judaism, also is on record as having interpreted

Zechariah 13:9

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined: and I will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on my name, and I will hear them. I will say: Thou art my people: and they shall say: The Lord is my God.

Isaiah 66:15-16

15 For behold the Lord will come with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind, to render his wrath in indignation, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord shall judge by fire, and by his sword unto all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

and

Malachi 3:2-3

2

And who shall be able to think of the day of his coming? and who shall stand to see him? for he is like a refining fire, and like the fuller’s herb: 3 And he shall sit refining and cleansing the silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and shall refine them as gold, and as silver, and they shall offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice.

Wisdom 3:1-6

1 But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and the torment of death shall not touch them.
5 Afflicted in few things, in many they shall be well rewarded: because God hath tried them, and found them worthy of himself.
6 As gold in the furnace, he hath proved them, and as a victim of a holocaust…

and

2 Maccabees 12:43-45

43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalemfor sacrifice**** to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection…
46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

**As referring to a state of purification after death. **

fisheaters.com/purgatory.html

For NT references to Purgatory see:

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html#purgatory-I

Jews, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox all believe in Purgatory, it was not until the 1500’s that Protestants abandoned the teaching.

 

[holy_wood]

Listen, if you want to chant repetitive prayers with prayer beads, go ahead. There are plenty of other pagan religions that do that, so you have plenty of company. (Bahai’s, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, Nazorean Gnostics, etc.)

However, there are people who understand Jesus’ simple words against repetitive prayers and choose not to use worship devices and rituals that were borrowed from pagan religions.

These people choose not to become Catholics. It’s as simple as that.

VAIN AND REPITITIOUS PRAYER

http://scripturecatholic.com/images/horbar.gifMatt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, “do not heap up empty phrases” in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus’ focus in this instruction is on the “vain,” and not on the “repetition.”

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again.** It is not the repetition that is the issue.** It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

**Luke 18:13 **- the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing. (Is not once enough?)

Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, **not necessarily how we choose our words. **

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.
Dan. 3:35-66

52 Blessed art thou,

O Lord, the God of our fathers; and worthy to be praised, and glorified, and exalted above all for ever: and blessed is the holy name of thy glory: and worthy to be praised and exalted above all, in all ages.

53 Blessed art thou

in the holy temple of thy glory: and exceedingly to be praised, and exceeding glorious for ever.
54 Blessed art thou on the throne of thy kingdom, and exceedingly to be praised, and exalted above all for ever.
55 Blessed art thou, that beholdest the depths, and sittest upon the cherubims: and worthy to be praised and exalted above all for ever.
56 Blessed art thou in the firmament of heaven: and worthy of praise, and glorious for ever.

the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.

BibleSteve I must ask, how many times must something be repeated until it is in vain?
And by what bases did you use to come up with the arbitrary
number?

scripturecatholic.com/vain_and_repetitious_prayer.html

 

[KingsKid46]

**Jesus said that He was the only Way and the only Truth and the only Life that leads to the Father. Before any Church was formed Jesus existed. Jesus is the Living Word. **

 

[holy_wood]

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me.

When I was Catholic I kinda ignored this but could never get around it, when people are crowning statues and parading them in the streets, burning candles and praying before them, kissing them and rubbing them and even crying before these statues how is this not idolatry?

One should not presume to know the hearts of men. If what these people do is not to your liking then don’t do it, but do not assume they are worshipping the statues in place of God.

Posture in Prayer, Veneration and Worship

Deut. 5:9

• God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.

Rev. 3:9 - Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship.

Gen. 19:1 - Lot** bowed down to the ground in veneration** before two angels in Sodom.

Gen. 42:6 - Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph** (a man)** with the face to the ground.

Jos. 5:14 - Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an** angel**.

1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel (a man) with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.

1 Kings 1:23 - the prophet Nathan bows down before King David (a man).

2 Kings 2:15 - the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha (a man) at Jericho.

1 Chron. 21:21 - Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David (a man) with his face to the ground.

2 Chron. 29:29-30 - King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar (an object) by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.

Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael.

Judith 14:7 - Achior the Ammonite **kneels before Judith venerating **her ( a woman) and praising God.

Psalm 138:2 - David bows down before God’s Holy Temple (an object).

Dan. 2:46 - the** king fell down on his face** paying homage to Daniel (a man) and commands that an offering be made to him.

Daniel 8:17 - Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.

1 Macc. 4:40,55 - Judas and the faithful fell face down to the ground to praise heaven and worship God.

In your culture is bowing **equated **to worship? If yes, then read these versus carefully…
(cut and paste the verse at http://www.biblegateway.com)

because it is not according to the Bible.

Do you venerate man, angel, or saint? If not why, it is extremely Biblical.

 

[lukewarm]

One should not presume to know the hearts of men. If what these people do is not to your liking then don’t do it, but do not assume they are worshipping the statues in place of God.

Posture in Prayer, Veneration and Worship
Quote:
Deut. 5:9 - God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.
.

Let me stop you right there, the commandment states:

“You shall not bow down to them or worship them”

It makes a distinction between bowing down and worshipping, they can be intermingled but don’t need to be to be wrong. But obviously the commandment is outlawing not only worship but the very creating of the idol and bowing to them. I would argue the modern Catholic idea of “venerating” statues is specifically forbidden here as a form of idolatry.

So I do not agree with your first statement.

Seriously look at the photo of men parading a statue around with a gold crown and tell me that is O.K.? It simply isn’t it’s absurd and nonsensical. Sorry but it is, why are we parading statues around? Crying at them? Bowing before them and lighting candles and offering prayers before them? Even as a Catholic I made it a point to never even glance at the statues and I felt near ill the one or two times I made a candle offering or prayed before a statue of Jesus following the Missals recommendation.

 

[holy_wood]

**Jesus said that He was the only Way and the only Truth and the only Life that leads to the Father. Before any Church was formed Jesus existed. Jesus is the Living Word. **

And you think that any Catholic would disagree with you on that?:ehh:

But Jesus founded One Chuch by which he desired as the normal way by which his follwers were to come to know him and that is the Catholic Church!!!

Forgive me but it seems like your echoing the old slogan I don’t belong to a Church/Religion but I have a personal relationship with Christ.

The problem is that it is a both/and not a either/or

Jas 1:26-27

26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Now if to be Christian is to follow a religion then that means that there is a standard and norm by which a true Christian must follow.

That means yielding to the traditions and doctrines which Christ One, True, Church has always held fast to from its very foundation.

Mormons, JW, EyC, as well as others all claim to have a personal relationship which Jesus Christ and the members believe it. Yet there doctrines and practices are completely alien to traditional Christianity.

Does that mean that just because they feel like they have a close relationship with Christ that they can abandon the teachings and traditions of the Apostles?

 

[KingsKid46]

*It is not an old slogan but the truth. I do have a personal relationship with the Saviour Jesus. The Catholic Church is NOT the church that Jesus founded. The Church is people not a building or an organization. :yup: *

 

[lukewarm]

Do you venerate man, angel, or saint? If not why, it is extremely Biblical.

Man, Angel and Saint were made by God in His image. How you think this is the same as “venerating” or bowing before a statue is beyond me. Last I checked people aren’t idols.

Not that I necessarily agree that giving man veneration is O.K., but just for the sake of argument if it were how is that akin to giving worship or veneration to a statue? A piece of marble or more likely today a piece of gaudy chalkware O.K.?

Men make idols in their image not God’s and we can’t give life to the idols although at times it’s tough to tell that.

 

[holy_wood]

Let me stop you right there, the commandment states:

“You shall not bow down to them or worship them”

It makes a distinction between bowing down and worshipping, they can be intermingled but don’t need to be to be wrong.
So I do not agree with your first statement.

Seriously look at the photo of men parading a statue around with a gold crown and tell me that is O.K.? It simply isn’t it’s absurd and nonsensical. Sorry but it is, why are we parading statues around? Crying at them? Bowing before them and lighting candles and offering prayers before them? Even as a Catholic I made it a point to never even glance at the statues and I felt near ill the one or two times I made a candle offering or prayed before a statue of Jesus following the Missals recommendation.

Dude, this is not going to be a very effective thread if you don’t read my entire post.

snip’
But obviously the commandment is outlawing not only worship but the very creating of the idol and bowing to them.

Am I to understand that the making of any graven image necessitates it automatically being an idol?

Explain these versus:
**Exodus 25:18-20 **

18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.

Ezekiel 41:17-18

**17 In the space above the outside of the entrance to the inner sanctuary and on the walls at regular intervals all around the inner and outer sanctuary **
18 were carved cherubim and palm trees. Palm trees alternated with cherubim. Each cherub had two faces:

**Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it. **

I posted a plethera of quotes where man and angel were bowed before and venerated, yet this was not worship.

Idolotry is the adoration of a person, place, or thing that should be reserved for God alone.

Tell me friend if the men in my previous post can distinguish between veneration and the worship do to God alone why can’t you.

 

[lukewarm]

Dude, this is not going to be a very effective thread if you don’t read my entire post.

I will stop reading when I see something I completely disagree with, but since you agree merely making an idol and bowing to it is against God’s commandment I have to ask why you keep doing it?

Catholics and take this with as little offense as possible because I was one tend to do the exact opposite of Occam’s razor. They tend to look at the most convoluted hard to follow explanation in order to justify something that is clearly explained as wrong. The commandment I quoted is very clear, it isn’t vague or ambiguous, it’s saying don’t make idols and bow dow to them OR worship them. Three parts, don’t make them, don’t bow down to them, don’t worship them Catholics I can say confidently break two of those, the third is debateable depending on the person.

 

[holy_wood]

Man, Angel and Saint were made by God in His image. How you think this is the same as “venerating” or bowing before a statue is beyond me. Last I checked people aren’t idols.

Not that I necessarily agree that giving man veneration is O.K., but just for the sake of argument if it were how is that akin to giving worship or veneration to a statue? A piece of marble or more likely today a piece of gaudy chalkware O.K.?

Men make idols in their image not God’s and we can’t give life to the idols although at times it’s tough to tell that.

People can indeed become idols. In the early days of Christianity our christian ancestors refused to join the Roman army because they were required to bow down and worship the Emperor as God.

No Catholic believes that the statue is the actual saint its just a representation of them. Tell me have you ever kissed a picture of a failiy member or friend. Can’t I say that thats a form of worship.

Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.

2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God’s wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.

1 Chron. 28:18-19 - David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews’ most solemn place of worship.

2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold.

Ezek. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.
Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the “image” (Greek “eikon”) of the invisible God.

Others as well as David and Solomon bowed before the Earth, I guess they are guilty of worship the ground.

 

[lukewarm]

Am I to understand that the making of any graven image necessitates it automatically being an idol?

Well you’re comparing something that is ordered specifically by God in the OT, something God explained in detail to be made in His image, something that isn’t even available to any of the faithful aside from the High Priest once a year. To random idols that remain not only available to the faithful but they’re encouraged to bow before them and light candles and pray before them. I find the comparison baseless.

 

[holy_wood]

I will stop reading when I see something I completely disagree with, but since you agree merely making an idol and bowing to it is against God’s commandment I have to ask why you keep doing it?

Catholics and take this with as little offense as possible because I was one tend to do the exact opposite of Occam’s razor. They tend to look at the most convoluted hard to follow explanation in order to justify something that is clearly explained as wrong. The commandment I quoted is very clear, it isn’t vague or ambiguous, it’s saying don’t make idols and bow dow to them OR worship them. Three parts, don’t make them, don’t bow down to them, don’t worship them Catholics I can say confidently break two of those, the third is debateable depending on the person.

O.K. lets back up a little, do you

1. believe that the Bible forbids the making of graven images?
2. Believe its a sin to merely bow down to them.

I agree one must not worship them but as stated before I do not. And it is presumtuous to assume I do especially when you cannot see into the hearts of hellow man.

Please explain to me whats so inherintly different in the act of bowing before man and Angel that is different from bowing before a statue?

What protects and individual from being guilty of idolotry in the former but not in the latter?

 

[lukewarm]

O.K. lets back up a little, do you

1. believe that the Bible forbids the making of graven images?

Yes unless oredered specifically by God Himself… We are bound by God’s commandments He is not.

1. Believe its a sin to merely bow down to them.

Yes

I agree one must not worship them but as stated before I do not. And it is presumtuous to assume I do especially when you cannot see into the hearts of hellow man.

No but I can assume you believe Hindu’s to be idolators no? Do you know their hearts? No, you don’t need to because the commandment against idolatry doesn’t require us to be able to read mens hearts, we can see it easily with our God given senses.

Please explain to me whats so inherintly different in the act of bowing before man and Angel that is different from bowing before a statue?

For one God O.K.'s giving men and dignitaries their due respect for being their leaders, if custom is bowing this is shown to be O.K. (although Peter himself rebuked a disciple for bowing before him as did Angels in the Bible), He specifically forbids bowing before graven images… Men are made in God’s image they are not graven images. Yes worshipping a man is wrong and idolatrous, but you’re acting like the two are mutually exclusive. However the commandment states do no make, bow down before, or worship graven images.

But let’s stay on topic and not introduce other variables that have nothing to do with graven images.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

**Jesus said that He was the only Way and the only Truth and the only Life that leads to the Father. Before any Church was formed Jesus existed. Jesus is the Living Word. **

And Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life created His Church here on Earth.

 

[holy_wood]

Well you’re comparing something that is ordered specifically by God in the OT, something God explained in detail to be made in His image, something that isn’t even available to any of the faithful aside from the High Priest once a year. To random idols that remain not only available to the faithful but they’re encouraged to bow before them and light candles and pray before them. I find the comparison baseless.

So being offered to the faithful once a year means that the faithful are tempted to fall into idolotry once a year, ehh.

So God ordering them to be made is defying his own commandment, he is ordering his faithful to committ an act that would ordinarily be a sin. Is it not possible that the proper interpretation of the verse about “making graven images and bowing before them” is not to make graven images for the specific purpose of worshipping them in the place of God.

Random Idols? In His Image? They are representations of men and woman who devouted there lives to serving the Lord. They are representations of the image of God.

The main reason for statues came about during the middle ages, back when the laity were pretty much 95% illiterate statues and paintings were used to represent Biblical narratives.

Would you prefer that the laity remain ignorant of scripture than to look upon a picture or statue of the Saints of old.

As for the use of candles see:
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9111cust.asp

 

[PatienceAndLove]

*It is not an old slogan but the truth. I do have a personal relationship with the Saviour Jesus. The Catholic Church is NOT the church that Jesus founded. The Church is people not a building or an organization. :yup: *

The Church is a group of people, which is, therefore, an organization.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

*It is not an old slogan but the truth. I do have a personal relationship with the Saviour Jesus. The Catholic Church is NOT the church that Jesus founded. The Church is people not a building or an organization. :yup: *

Catechism of the Catholic Churchvatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
Apostolic Tradition
The Profession of Faith/Profession of Christian Faith/I believe in the Holy Spirit/I believe in the Holy Catholic Church

For BibleSteve:
THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY
1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605

*As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.*606

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

*Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.*609

604 Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.
605 Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.
606 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. Mt 12:31.
607 2 Macc 12:46.
608 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.
609 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. Job 1:5.

 

[holy_wood]

Yes unless oredered specifically by God Himself… We are bound by God’s commandments He is not.

From my perspective that distinction is arbitrary. Sin is sin. Murder, rape, use of contraception, abortion, lying or stealing is wrong no matter the circumstance. If God ordered one to do these things then I promise you the commandment was not from God.

1. Believe its a sin to merely bow down to them.

Yes

Again, what protects one from falling into idolotry when bowing before Man and Angel.

I agree one must not worship them but as stated before I do not. And it is presumtuous to assume I do especially when you cannot see into the hearts of hellow man.

No but I can assume you believe Hindu’s to be idolators no? Do you know their hearts? No, you don’t need to because the commandment against idolatry doesn’t require us to be able to read mens hearts, we can see it easily with our God given senses.

They are venerating representations of false gods, its not the same. I don’t know much about the Hindu religion but it can be possible that they worship the statues themselves. So they are double-sinning (made up term)

For one God O.K.'s giving men and dignitaries their due respect for being their leaders, if custom is bowing this is shown to be O.K. (although Peter himself rebuked a disciple for bowing before him as did Angels in the Bible), He specifically forbids bowing before graven images… Men are made in God’s image they are not graven images. Yes worshipping a man is wrong and idolatrous, but you’re acting like the two are mutually exclusive. However the commandment states do no make, bow down before, or worship graven images.

But let’s stay on topic and not introduce other variables that have nothing to do with graven images.

So its pure legalism? Bowing before the Earth is o.k. to you, bowing before a temple is o.k. to you, and bowing before an altar is o.k. to you but bowing before a statue is sinful, huh?

O.K, we simply are seeing things from 2 different perspectives. I am trying to understand God’s reason for the commandment. I don’t see how a statue is more dangerous than man and Angel. Two distinct creations which by pride would welcome mans worship of them.

2 Kings 13:21 -

Elisha’s bones bring a man back to life. The saints’ bones are often kept beneath the altars of Catholic churches and have brought about supernatural cures throughout the Christian age.

Is bowing and venerating a corpse sinful?

How about the use of relics do you believe venerating them are sinful?