Differences between Catholic Teaching and the Bible

[rinnie]

No one is our Father except God our “Holy Father”, I do not think anyone is worthly to take or think they can take God’s seat on His Throne! No, humility or humbleness in that, is there, if we do? So Pope---- means Father, they just do not come out saying in English Father, but when we say Pope------ we are saying Father right! Pope---- means Father.

God Bless

God Bless

Yep he is the Holy Father, and that is what i will call him. But if you are going to insist on taking scripture out of context. I guess we are all getting it. But at least the Catholics are not the only ones on this bus, the jews, protestants, all people . And to make it worse i call the priest Father so do my protestant buddies, and guess what this one is going to throw you for a loop. My Dad he is my Father too. then we got the Father our country, grand father, great grandfather. And here is a good one you wont believe St Joseph is the Father of Jesus. there you have it your way. And here is the grand one. One of the ten commandments. HONOR YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER.

 

[bobzills]

Bobzills - I am not sure what you mean by “clown Mass”. But they are talking about wisdom and foolishness. It is better for your heart to mourn the death than to have some foolish party ! Read on the rest of the chapter and you’ll see that wisdom does not come from foolish behavior but by sorrow and pain at times.

Come to any medium ground on your "meat on Friday " issue.?

The dancing girl Mass, the clown Mass, the monkey Mass, the mariachi band Mass are all reminiscent of a joyful party, not a sorrowful event. We are taught by the Bible that Sorrow is better than laughter, but this teaching is not supported by this type of modern Mass.
As far as Friday goes, it looks to me very clear that the Church has declared that it is a mortal sin to break the fast on a day of abstinence, so this would be contrary to the Biblical declaration that it is not what goes into the mouth which defiles a man.
The question was are there differences between Catholic teaching and the Bible. The answer is yes, when these Biblcal statements are taken at their face value, strictly keeping to the literal meaning of the statement. However, it is possible to get around the literal interpretation and reconcile these statements with Catholic teaching. It can be argued in each case, that the literal interpretation is not appropriate to our present day culture and situation. But the problem is that some people take this too far and as a result we are seeing the moral havoc in our society today, with children being hurt at schools, with Catholic universities and colleges requiring students to take part in disgusting pro-lesbian plays on Ash Wednesday, with Catholic priests writing disgusting pulp novels, with Catholic art museums associated with the Catholic Church, sponsoring the most disgusting sacriligeous pro-homosexual displays, etc.

 

[peary]

Bobzills - I am not sure what you mean by “clown Mass”. But they are talking about wisdom and foolishness. It is better for your heart to mourn the death than to have some foolish party ! Read on the rest of the chapter and you’ll see that wisdom does not come from foolish behavior but by sorrow and pain at times.

Come to any medium ground on your "meat on Friday " issue.?

A “Clown mass”? Never heard of such a thing. We have masses for healing, we have masses for children, we have masses for those who have passed on, we have masses for world peace, but we don’t have masses for ‘clowns’. Is this another one of your disrespectful statements against our Faith?

 

[peary]

Not us sbanks, bobzilla.

 

[sbanks]

Bobzills, I will certainly disagree that there are differences between catholic teachings and the Bible. You are stuck on meat on Fridays and now it appears you are against any music in mass as well.(so I will add that as your next topic - the mass).

The meat of the matter is during lent some act of penance (which can include fasting) is required. This should include praying as well. Fasting is nothing new to the church, tradition and is quoted throughout the Bible. (check this out scripturecatholic.com/fasting.html)
The discipline of fasting from “meat” is up to each diocese, and is not (imo) a mortal sin. If i need meat in my diet and choose another form of penance - this is okay. If i “forgot” that I should be fasting - it is not a mortal sin.
As far as I know the church has not waivered on any right to life issues or homosexuality in general. And if you are in an area where they are reaching out to that group, maybe that is what you are seeing is the church reaching out to teach & help them. The church is here to help all of us as Jesus did when he talked with the woman at the well, healed the lepard, cured the blind and had dinner with the tax collector.
I don’t think this will answer any of your questions, but continue studying, praying and asking.

 

[bobzills]

A “Clown mass”? Never heard of such a thing. We have masses for healing, we have masses for children, we have masses for those who have passed on, we have masses for world peace, but we don’t have masses for ‘clowns’. Is this another one of your disrespectful statements against our Faith?

Please see:
youtube.com/watch?v=NsC4wRPybpA
or
websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/apologia/vpost?id=1783154
or
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A199rcClownArchbishop.htm
or
splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/008349.php

 

[planter654]

Yep he is the Holy Father, and that is what i will call him. But if you are going to insist on taking scripture out of context. I guess we are all getting it. But at least the Catholics are not the only ones on this bus, the jews, protestants, all people . And to make it worse i call the priest Father so do my protestant buddies, and guess what this one is going to throw you for a loop. My Dad he is my Father too. then we got the Father our country, grand father, great grandfather. And here is a good one you wont believe St Joseph is the Father of Jesus. there you have it your way. And here is the grand one. One of the ten commandments. HONOR YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER.

I wasn’t going against anything or anyone, “I agree with you”. My friend, and I always believed and known, since a child that St. Joseph is the Father of Jesus!

But not many talk about St. Joseph as they do our Blessed Mother, do they?

I understand what Jesus was teaching about sitting in the first pew and the ten commandments. Honour your father and mother…all that.

Father also means to me the place of authority, honour, Head of His family. God is my “Holy Father” and all in heaven with God is also my Holy Family, God is my Spiritual Father my creator, my authority. We are to love one another.

Thank You-------God Bless–Worship God

 

[Harmony1988]

I find it hilarious, naive and illogical that some Protestants would think the Church hasn’t already thought of the answers to their questions at least 500 years ago.

Martin Luther didn’t sit and do nothing, neither has most protestants.

If you were really looking for truth, instead of posting rhetorical questions. GOOGLE

 

[planter654]

I find it hilarious, naive and illogical that some Protestants would think the Church hasn’t already thought of the answers to their questions at least 500 years ago.

Martin Luther didn’t sit and do nothing, neither has most protestants.

If you were really looking for truth, instead of posting rhetorical questions. GOOGLE

Who are you addressing?
God Bless

 

[rinnie]

I wasn’t going against anything or anyone, “I agree with you”. My friend, and I always believed and known, since a child that St. Joseph is the Father of Jesus!

But not many talk about St. Joseph as they do our Blessed Mother, do they?

I understand what Jesus was teaching about sitting in the first pew and the ten commandments. Honour your father and mother…all that.

Father also means to me the place of authority, honour, Head of His family. God is my “Holy Father” and all in heaven with God is also my Holy Family, God is my Spiritual Father my creator, my authority. We are to love one another.

Thank You-------God Bless–Worship God

Forgive me too, i misunderstood you , i thought you were being sarcastic. No problem.

 

[peary]

Bob -
It DOESN’T MATTER how many websites or UTubes you post. The Catholic Church does NOT have masses for clowns, unless they were parishoners and had a “clown apostolate” (whatever that may mean). I know of no official sanction to allow even ‘clown’ masses, which means absolutely nothing…no such animal.

 

[bobzills]

Bob -
It DOESN’T MATTER how many websites or UTubes you post. The Catholic Church does NOT have masses for clowns, unless they were parishoners and had a “clown apostolate” (whatever that may mean). I know of no official sanction to allow even ‘clown’ masses, which means absolutely nothing…no such animal.

Ha. Ha. If you don’t want to believe your own eyes, then I can’t help it. The photos are there: Archbishop Alois Kothgasser of Salzburg, Austria, second from the left, joins hands with a clown at the altar during a Mass on October 16, 2004.
And there are many other pictures available, proving that there have been clown Masses.
And there have been monkey Masses, Halloween Masses, with Eucharistic servers in Satanic costumes, mariachi band Masses, cowboy Masses, dancing girl Masses, nudie Masses, Chinese dragon Masses, etc. My point is that these type of joyful Masses, not just the clown Mass, in the Catholic Church today do not support the Biblical teaching that sorrow is better than laughter, This is the question: Is there a difference between Catholic teaching and the teaching in the Bible? I submit that these type of Masses do not promote the teaching that sorrow is to be preferred over laughter.

 

[bobzills]

The discipline of fasting from “meat” is up to each diocese, and is not (imo) a mortal sin.

I am sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. … Now i am sorry but eating a hotdog on lent is not turning you away from God and going to send you to hell. … Do me a favor ask Father on sunday if eating the hotdog is a venial sin or mortal, you will see Father is getting a bad rap here, he will say venial sin. .

… Is this another one of your disrespectful statements against our Faith?

Well, I don’t know why people consider it disrespectful to quote from the declarations of the Catholic Popes. After all, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth. Why would this be disrespectful. On the contrary, I would think that it would be disrespectful to disregard what the Pope has declared. And what have the Popes declared concerning the law of abstinence:

The opinion that to break the law of abstinence is a venial sin has been anathematised and condemned by the Pope. …“the law of abstinence embodies a serious obligation whose transgression, objectively considered, ordinarily involves a mortal sin. The unanimous verdict of theologians, the constant practice of the faithful, and the mind of the Church place this point beyond cavil. They who would fain minimize the character of this obligation so as to relegate all transgressions, save such as originate in contempt, to the category of venial sin are anathematized by Alexander VII [Cf. Prop. 23, ap. Bucceroni, Enchiridion Morale, 145 (Rome, 1905)].”
Further…“In fine, the Trullan synod (can. 58, ap. Hefele, “History of the Councils of the Church”, V, 231, Edinburgh, 1896) inflicts deposition on clerics and excommunication on laymen who violate this law. Furthermore, theologians claim that a grievous sin is committed as often as flesh meat is consumed in any quantity on abstinence days (Sporer, Theologia Moralis super Decalogum, I, De observ. jejunii, # 2, assert. II), because the law is negative, and binds semper et pro semper. In other words, the prohibition of the Church in this matter is absolute.”
newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm
And let’s take a look at what a recent Pope has written. Pope Paul VI published Paenitemini, the Apostolic Constitution on Penance, February 17, 1966. It provided for abstinence from meat for all the faithful over 14 years of age. Paenitemini, Chapter III, section C, Norm II, states: “1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation through-out the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rite. Their substantial observance binds gravely. 2. Apart from the faculties referred to in VI and VIII regarding the manner of fulfilling the precept of penitence on such days, abstinence is to be observed on every Friday which does not fall on a day of obligation, while abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday or, according to local practice, on the first day of ’Great Lent’ and on Good Friday.”
So, in addition to Pope Nicholas I in the ninth century, Pope Innocent II at the begtinning of the 13th century, and Pope Alexander VII who anathemaitsed those who would say that a breach of the law of abstinence in a venial sin, we also have the declaration of His Holiness Pope Paul VI.“

 

[bobzills]

The Catholic Church does NOT have masses for clowns, …no such animal…

It’s strange that anyone would deny that there have been clown Masses, because there is a thread at CAF on the very subject of clown Masses. Why have the thread if these Masses do not exist?:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=227086

Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments > What is a 'Clown Mass'?

I want to emphasize here, that my point is not on the clown Mass itself, but on the various other joyful type Masses that have sprung up. You can watch the videos from the links posted on the thread given here and you will see that the whole emphasis is on the joyful nature of human existence. This is the point of my discussion on this: the difference between what the Bible says and what the Catholic Church is teaching today. The Bible teaches that sorrow is better than laughter. Many of the liturgical innovations in the Church today support the opposing viewpoint.

 

[sbanks]

Bobzills, again you are taking something completely out of context. Let’s look at your meat issue again.
The church has long taught that absitence is a good thing. In fact it has been a long standing doctrine of the church. Now absitence can be many things, but what it does include is the during this time of absitence or sacrifice! is that you pray and remember Christ’s life & death. Now the Pope definitely is human like you and me and has an opinion like you and me. The Popes words certainly weigh more heavily on our thoughts than yours or mine. Unless the Pope has changed the dogma of the church then the Pope’s opinion is just that , an opinion. The church has not change its dogma or doctrine, the disciplines (each dioceses) can change without changing the doctrine and dogma of the church. (example the diocese in the US can say we should not eat french fries on friday instead of meat - this would be our sacrifice.) We respect the Pope and he his the Vicar of Christ, but you must remember that he is human as well and does have opinions. So unless he is specifically changing the dogma or doctrine of the church (which I believe is very rare) then all of his "opinion papers " are just that - opinions.

 

[rinnie]

Bobzills no offense but you need to talk to a priest in the Roman Catholic CHurch. Then when you do, and if this priest is from a Roman Catholic Church, and he agrees with You. Please send me a PM with his name and parish and number and i would like to talk to him. Or better yet give him a copy of this thread. every response, and then give me his response to it. I think we would all like to hear what HE says not you. And as far as these clowns i have no clue what you are talking about. But i can say i have been a RC all of my life and never have i seen or heard of such a thing. Now if you are talking of something other than RCC, then there you have me, I cant talk for other churchs.

 

[bobzills]

And as far as these clowns i have no clue what you are talking about…

I am talking about Masses that emphasize joy instead of sorrow. I gave a brief list of the type above. Also, you can check for yourself that there are many Masses today that emphasize joy instead of sorrow. For example, on the occasion of the Chinese New Year, there were celebrated the Chines dragon Masses, complete with the Chinese dragon dancing throughout the Church. This was in a couple of parishes, not just one. But the Biblical teaching is that Sorrow is better than laughter. I do not know why people consider it disrespectful to quote from Scripture?
Here are some links that you may want to investigate:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=227086

Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments > What is a ‘Clown Mass’?

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A199rcClownArchbishop.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A143rcRatzingerCircus.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A069rcSwitzMass.htm
If sorrow is better than laughter, why have these type of smile or laughter producing activities in Catholic Churches today?

 

[bobzills]

Bobzills, again you are taking something completely out of context. Let’s look at your meat issue again.
The church has long taught that absitence is a good thing. In fact it has been a long standing doctrine of the church. Now absitence can be many things, but what it does include is the during this time of absitence or sacrifice! is that you pray and remember Christ’s life & death. Now the Pope definitely is human like you and me and has an opinion like you and me. The Popes words certainly weigh more heavily on our thoughts than yours or mine. Unless the Pope has changed the dogma of the church then the Pope’s opinion is just that , an opinion. The church has not change its dogma or doctrine, the disciplines (each dioceses) can change without changing the doctrine and dogma of the church. (example the diocese in the US can say we should not eat french fries on friday instead of meat - this would be our sacrifice.) We respect the Pope and he his the Vicar of Christ, but you must remember that he is human as well and does have opinions. So unless he is specifically changing the dogma or doctrine of the church (which I believe is very rare) then all of his "opinion papers " are just that - opinions.

If you go to:
secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/fridayabstinence.htm
you will read:
“Since 1966, All Fridays during Lent remain obligatory days of abstinence from meat on pain of mortal sin.”
In any event, do you agree that eating a hot dog on Good Friday in a diocese where abstinence is enforced, would be a sin? If so, then this would conflict with the Biblical command that it is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defileth a man, but what comes out of his mouth. You are committing a sin and being defiled by putting a meat product into your mouth.

 

[rinnie]

I am talking about Masses that emphasize joy instead of sorrow. I gave a brief list of the type above. Also, you can check for yourself that there are many Masses today that emphasize joy instead of sorrow. For example, on the occasion of the Chinese New Year, there were celebrated the Chines dragon Masses, complete with the Chinese dragon dancing throughout the Church. This was in a couple of parishes, not just one. But the Biblical teaching is that Sorrow is better than laughter. I do not know why people consider it disrespectful to quote from Scripture?
Here are some links that you may want to investigate:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=227086

Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments > What is a ‘Clown Mass’?

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A199rcClownArchbishop.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A143rcRatzingerCircus.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A069rcSwitzMass.htm
If sorrow is better than laughter, why have these type of smile or laughter producing activities in Catholic Churches today?

I am asking you point blank! Has it ever been done in the Roman Catholic Church and if so where. I have answered you now you answer me. I am asking you personally.

 

[sbanks]

If you go to:
secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/fridayabstinence.htm
you will read:
“Since 1966, All Fridays during Lent remain obligatory days of abstinence from meat on pain of mortal sin.”
In any event, do you agree that eating a hot dog on Good Friday in a diocese where abstinence is enforced, would be a sin? If so, then this would conflict with the Biblical command that it is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defileth a man, but what comes out of his mouth. You are committing a sin and being defiled by putting a meat product into your mouth.

good link. You should read it.
A mortal sin: CCC 1857 “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1. GRAVE MATTER - eating meat on Friday IS NOT A GRAVE MATTER - no matter how you read between the lines it is NOT a GRAVE matter. What is a GRAVE MATTER? well read through your link again and it explains!!!
   CCC 1858 “Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: ’Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.’ The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.”
   mmm… I don’t see EATING anything as a mortal sin!!!
   Thanks for the link. Let’s move on to your mass questions.