Differences between Mormon Missions and Catholic Missions

[dianaiad]

This is what your own source actually says (compare it to what you quote)
Rising maternal and child death rates prompted Brigham Young to encourage **some women living in polygamy who had already borne children to study medicine at the **Woman’s Medical College in Philadelphia; but there was no provision for their financial support. When these women returned home in the summer to earn money to support themselves during the school year, many became pregnant again, which added to their financial and emotional woes.

Uhmmm - and you made Brigham sound so kind. Kept his wallet intact though.

How does what you wrote here contradict the fact that he encouraged these women to go study?

The fact is, we don’t have a paid clergy. When we are called to do something (like go on missions, etc., ) we are EXPECTED to pay our own way.

As for women coming home and getting ‘pregnant again…’ well, that’s what women do. We ARE the ones who get pregnant. As a result, even in today’s ‘enlightened’ feminist world, biology can’t be denied; women have to deal with the physical matters of pregancy, birth and child raising to an extent that men simply don’t have to. That’s not BY’s fault. It’s a fact of biology. When men get pregnant, THEN you can start criticising him for this.

As well, do you have any idea how incredibly sexist the author…and by extension, you…sound by mentioning this? BY shouldn’t have sent the women back east because…they are women and could come home and GET PREGNANT?

Are you serious???

 

[Eliza10]

Sir Thomas More:
Tell us, why were your Mormon Missionary years two of the best years of your life? I am curious, and this is on-topic!

 

[Eliza10]

This is what your own source actually says (compare it to what you quote)
Rising maternal and child death rates prompted Brigham Young to encourage **some women living in polygamy who had already borne children to study medicine at the **Woman’s Medical College in Philadelphia; but there was no provision for their financial support. When these women returned home in the summer to earn money to support themselves during the school year, many became pregnant again, which added to their financial and emotional woes.

Uhmmm - and you made Brigham sound so kind. Kept his wallet intact though.

Yes, it is* strange* to make it sound like Brigham Young actually did something charitable when all he actually did was suggest some women ought to go pay and work their way thru school. Anyone can suggest that people do hard things, its the people who actually do the hard things that deserve all the credit.

 

[StevieD]

How does what you wrote here contradict the fact that he encouraged these women to go study?

The fact is, we don’t have a paid clergy. When we are called to do something (like go on missions, etc., ) we are EXPECTED to pay our own way.

Are you serious???

Perfectly serious, you were the one who chose to quote this ‘sexist’ source and very selectively as usual. I would encourage women to go and study to save the population of my personal mini-state, especially if I didn’t have to give the church’s money/my money (Brigham did used to get very confused about which was which) to do so. You made him sound like an early feminist, he was just encouraging surplus polygamous wives to go and get qualified to save his population.
As for no-paid clergy - the senior ‘clergy’ get paid plenty of your money (but try finding out how much!) as did the bishops historically until the church decided to stop the practice for financial reasons - such as ‘the church needs it more than you do’.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The “no paid clergy” thing of Mormonism is nothing more than American anti-clericalism.

 

[dianaiad]

Yes, it is* strange* to make it sound like Brigham Young actually did something charitable when all he actually did was suggest some women ought to go pay and work their way thru school. Anyone can suggest that people do hard things, its the people who actually do the hard things that deserve all the credit.

probably because a: every other religious leader in the country at the time was dead set against women doing anything even remotely like that and b: the claim was that BY didn’t care about the health or wellbeing of his people. Asking women to go to medical school sort of screws that claim up.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I have read it a lot more than ten times. I have read it so many times I have lost count how many. And every time I read it, I am convinced more and more that it is true.

yeah? what about it makes it true? Is it the copying from the Bible? Is it the fact you can;t find a single location? Is it the fact that no scientific study of any kind has been able to verify anything in the book?

 

[zerinus]

yeah? what about it makes it true? Is it the copying from the Bible? Is it the fact you can;t find a single location? Is it the fact that no scientific study of any kind has been able to verify anything in the book?

I know it is true because it breaths the same spirit that the Bible does.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Sir Thomas More:
Tell us, why were your Mormon Missionary years two of the best years of your life? I am curious, and this is on-topic!

oh wow…I could write a book…

At the time, I believed the LDS Church was true. I became LDS when I was 22 years and 10 months. I was a college grad and had a job. When I was 24, I went on my mission. I was not some kid doing his thing between first and second year of college. I was 24, a college grad, I had a job and a fiance’. I quit my job, sold my car, sold almost all I had, left my fiance, and went on my mission. I was older than the other missionaries and I had already lived on my own, so I often felt likke a baby sitter.

But this was not a college break for me, this was me giving up a career and fiance to serve God. And that is what made it so wonderful. For almost 2 years, I served God (missions were 18 months back then ). I lived in Honduras and never lived in an area where we could use bikes. I walked everywhere. I lived in really impoverished conditions. I worked every day all day. In my mind, I was doing the Lord’s work. I taught, I helped comfort, I counselled. It was amazing. Even after I left the LDS Church, I always looked on my time as a missionary with great fondness and love.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I know it is true because it breaths the same spirit that the Bible does.

well, at the least the parts that copied the Bible.

But tell you what, I will go to Bethlehem, and you go to Zerahemla and we’ll see who gets to the destination first…would you like a head start?

 

[dianaiad]

Perfectly serious, you were the one who chose to quote this ‘sexist’ source and very selectively as usual. I would encourage women to go and study to save the population of my personal mini-state, especially if I didn’t have to give the church’s money/my money (Brigham did used to get very confused about which was which) to do so. You made him sound like an early feminist, he was just encouraging surplus polygamous wives to go and get qualified to save his population.
As for no-paid clergy - the senior ‘clergy’ get paid plenty of your money (but try finding out how much!) as did the bishops historically until the church decided to stop the practice for financial reasons - such as ‘the church needs it more than you do’.

CFR regarding your claim that our bishops were ever paid, and if they ever were, that such a practiced ceased because ‘the church needs it more than you do.’

 

[Annie_B]

Yes.

Glad to hear it:thumbsup:
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

I have read it several times. I even taught it in LDS Sunday school. It is so full of errors, anachronisms and obvious plagiarisms that I cannot take it seriously.

I am glad that you have read it several times. but I was just asking Eliza. But, I suppose you saw an opportunity to give your opinion on it and I can’t blame you for taking .it!
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

I have read it more than ten times, and I have studied critical commentaries written by Mormons. I consider it an entirely blasphemous book.

Well, at least you read it:thumbsup:
Annie

 

[PaulDupre]

Well, at least you read it:thumbsup:
Annie

Which is more than we can say for most Mormons.

 

[RebeccaJ]

D&C 42

71 And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors in all things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecrated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned;
72 Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop.

 73  And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church.

So a good question is, why the practice of paying Mormon bishops was stopped?

 

[SirThomasMore]

well, at the least the parts that copied the Bible.

But tell you what, I will go to Bethlehem, and you go to Zerahemla and we’ll see who gets to the destination first…would you like a head start?

well, Zenius?

 

[soren1]

Y’know what I like about you, soren?

I like that even as much as you DO disaprove of us and our belief system, you do try your best to disaprove of the actual thing, not some strawman construct that bears no resemblance to who and what we actually are.

People like you are rare. I just wanted you to know this, for the next time we butt heads about something.

Thank you. I will remember that you said this, and try to keep living up to it.

 

[StevieD]

CFR regarding your claim that our bishops were ever paid, and if they ever were, that such a practiced ceased because ‘the church needs it more than you do.’

D&C 42

71 And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors in all things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecrated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned;
72 Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop.

73 And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church.

(thanks RebeccaJ)

The payment to ‘bishops’ ceased in about 1909, until then they had received a % of their ‘take’ (instigated by Brigham - he knew a thing or two about getting the money in).

Ask the ‘church’, DianaD, when and why it started ignoring its own ‘scriptures’ and using this to spread the ‘no paid clergy’ myth. I can’t spend all my time teaching you about your own church, those people in SLC get paid for it! (Don’t expect any honest answers though - they get paid for dissembling too).

 

[dianaiad]

D&C 42

71 And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors in all things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecrated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned;
72 Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop.

73 And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church.

(thanks RebeccaJ)

The payment to ‘bishops’ ceased in about 1909, until then they had received a % of their ‘take’ (instigated by Brigham - he knew a thing or two about getting the money in).

Ask the ‘church’, DianaD, when and why it started ignoring its own ‘scriptures’ and using this to spread the ‘no paid clergy’ myth. I can’t spend all my time teaching you about your own church, those people in SLC get paid for it! (Don’t expect any honest answers though - they get paid for dissembling too).

You had to have Rebecca find the verse in the Doctrine and Covenants…which meant that you didn’t know about it. This tells me that wherever you got your information, it probably isn’t authoritative.

Now kindly show where Bishops were paid up through 1909.