Differences between Mormon Missions and Catholic Missions

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Murdock, I appreciate your devotion. I was once the way you are now.

But then, intelligence and reason took over. I am the first to admit there are good things with the LDS Church. But the LDS Church is like aspartame. . It tastes like the real thing, and looks good on the outside, but too much of it can be deadly.

I offer you the same deal I made with Zerenius, who chickened out. I will go to Bethlehem and you go to Zerehemla. We will see who gets to their Scriptures’ city first. I will even give you a head start.
 
In your point 3, you remark insightfully as to the doctrine of agency that: “The unexamined assumption of LDS soteriology, that salvation by grace alone involves God ‘forcing’ human beings to act as they do, requires the blasphemous metaphysical presupposition that the touch of God is a harmful, exterior imposition upon the will. In fact, the Creator moves his creatures in ways that are intrinsic to the creatures themselves, without violence, without destruction of freedom.]”

My stake like many others (most others?), the week of Pioneer Day, holds for the youth (ages 14 to 17) a reenactment of the trek by handcart. As you may know, but perhaps others here at CAF might not know, the youth are divided into “families” and for several days each family pulls a loaded handcart over rough, sometimes hilly and sometimes rocky terrain. They camp out in the open each night. On the last day, Pioneer Day, they arrive at the rural site of the stake Pioneer Day celebration, somewhat rough for the wear, but cheered by the assembled stake. This experience gives the youth a clue about the real 1,000+ mile Mormon Trail of the 19th century.

One of the Young Men gave a Sacrament Meeting talk the next day about the trek reenactment. I was impressed that this 16 year old Priest’s talk was as evocative and insightful as I would expect from a person much older. I believe that his talk was the way that the Holy Ghost showed me how I might respond to you in a constructive fashion. In any case, I am going to synopsize what he said as to one episode during the trek reenactment.

Rocky hills are the bane of handcarts. As the steepness of a slope increases arithmetically, the difficulty of moving the handcart increases exponentially. On rocky slopes, the wooden wagon wheels (familiar from Westerns) can lose traction, causing the handcart to slip backwards or to pivot. On the third day, the four handcarts came to a point where the trail led up the steepest rocky hill on the trek. At that point, the adults who were along to supervise (but not help), had all of the Young Men leave the handcarts. They had come to the Women’s Pull, and the Young Women would pull the handcarts up the hill by themselves. The Young Women struggled to get the handcarts, one at the time, up the hill. There were the setbacks and stumblings that were to be expected. Some of the Young Women were groaning and more than one cried. Later, they all testified that they prayed to have just a fraction of the strength of the widows who pulled handcarts the length of the Mormon Trail and that, for every one of them, their prayers were answered. As a result, they were able, just barely, to get all four handcarts to the top of the hill.

The young Priest who gave the talk said that, with respect to the Women’s Pull, two specific things impressed him the most. First, after the Young Women got the first handcart to the top of the hill, he expected to see them fall to the ground and rest for a time. Instead, they immediately came back down the hill for the second handcart. They seemed to be stronger than before. Second, he saw two of the adult men who had accompanied the youth, who were fathers of two of the Young Women, with tears streaming down their faces. Nonetheless, the fathers remained still because they were possessed of the wisdom to know that, if a single male hand had pulled, or a single male shoulder had pushed, then there would have been a harmful, exterior imposition upon the will, with violence to the spirit and destruction of freedom.

Murdock

P.S. Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully to my previous post.
We should always meditate on the Suffering Christ, this also helps in our own suffering. That reminds me of my own History Murdock, how I came to Christ. A man they called Blace Robe who lived hundreds of years ago brought my wife’s family to Christ by His life example. My wife passed this faith on to me. This man was a Catholic Pioneer so to speak. We would re enact it as your faith has done but I believe it would be to hard on the children.
All year long we do find ourselves as Catholics witnessing the Passion of our Lord. How hard it was for Him to carry our Crosses. Anyway Murdock here is the one who brought me to Christ and many, many others. I don’t know if you have read about Catholic Pioneers. This would be a good one. Think of it as a real Indian story, one you can touch, very historical. Please take the time
utahmission.com/pages/cJouges_page.html
katerishrine.com/kateri.html
In Christ Jesus
The Utah Mission
In Memory of the American Martyrs
 
I didn’t get the point of the handcart story. Did you?
I think it was agency and if any males had anything to do with pushing the handcarts it would have negated the girls agency??? Though it really just came across as an emotional “testimony”.

An aside on the “pioneer” thing, on another site someone said the “The settling of the West was by and large driven by the believers of the BoM.”. No one questioned this line of thinking. What I found surprising about this is that the board I was on was a board of former members. People who never miss an opportunity to tear up and mock the LDS faith. Yet there was never any question on this subject they all seemed to agree with the premise that the west was settled because of the LDS.
 
I have to step back to a great work that is happening among the addicts and broken people and that is the work of the Twelve Steps. It parallels the Catholic walk of purgation in the spiritual life, the crux being knowing one’s self. Sr Ignatia from back East furthered the work of the founders of the 12 Step Program with great success.

The Catholics also excel in setting up schools in the inner cities. My son decided to go to one across town. First two years were hard. But it was such a great witness to the Catholic faith to see practically every single inner city youth name the 4 year college/university he/she would be attending the following year.

We got a letter from the school into the college year from counselors to see how our son was doing.

Here is Fr Emmerich’s: www.12-step-review.org

And, we have the Catholic healthcare system dominant here in this state – and it does have its wrinkles – but it does outstanding work and facilitates the presence of Christ to comfort those in such need.
 
I think it was agency and if any males had anything to do with pushing the handcarts it would have negated the girls agency??? Though it really just came across as an emotional “testimony”.

An aside on the “pioneer” thing, on another site someone said the “The settling of the West was by and large driven by the believers of the BoM.”. No one questioned this line of thinking. What I found surprising about this is that the board I was on was a board of former members. People who never miss an opportunity to tear up and mock the LDS faith. Yet there was never any question on this subject they all seemed to agree with the premise that the west was settled because of the LDS.
It had to do with agency, and faith…that story had a LOT of lessons in it.

First, for the girls the lesson was…with faith and perseverance, a very difficult job CAN be done–by THEM. It taught them independence. It showed them, more than many other lessons in their lives, that they were whole, individual women capable of doing wonderful things, especially if they have faith that God will help them.

It was also a lesson to the men, who, I’m quite certain, wanted to dig in and help. First, they didn’t want to see their daughters, friends, girlfriends HAVING to do something that hard; something that they could do much more easily. It was probably a lot harder for the Dad to stand there and watch than it was for the daughter to push/pull or lever those carts up the hills.

Finally, it’s a lesson that can be expanded…God deliberately gave us our free will to us, to muck things up…He COULD step in and stop the evil any time He wants to. He COULD stop us from sinning. He COULD stop the horror we inflict upon ourselves, and He surely knows the consequences waiting those who so completely go against His advice and wishes.

But He does not…and if you can imagine the heartache that belongs to the mother of a man who has, say, murdered, or raped, or who has done evil…I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around the suffering involved in being God, and watching us.

I got quite a few lessons from that story.

Diana
 
An aside on the “pioneer” thing, on another site someone said the “The settling of the West was by and large driven by the believers of the BoM.”. No one questioned this line of thinking. What I found surprising about this is that the board I was on was a board of former members. People who never miss an opportunity to tear up and mock the LDS faith. Yet there was never any question on this subject they all seemed to agree with the premise that the west was settled because of the LDS.
I just spent some time traveling along the Oregon Trail, and reading lots of info about it, including the “Mormon split off”.

The settling of the west was by and large driven by free land.
 
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