Differences between suicide and sacrifice

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Can anyone explain to me what are all the differences between suicide and sacrifice?
 
Montrose said:
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Guilherme1:
Can anyone explain to me what are all the differences between suicide and sacrifice?
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Selfish and selfless!
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If it is just a matter of selfishness and altruism, why is it sinful to donate an organ if it will cause your death?

CIC 296: Organ transplants are in conformity with the moral law if the physical and psychological dangers and risks to the donor are proportionate to the good sought for the recipient. Organ donation after death is a noble and meritorious act and is to be encouraged as a expression of generous solidarity. It is not morally acceptable if the donor or his proxy has not given explicit consent. Moreover, it is not morally admissible to bring about the disabling mutilation or death of a human being, even in order to delay the death of other persons.
 
The object: The suicidal person seeks to end his own life, but the hero seeks to save others even at the cost of his own. This is made manifest in those who survive: the one who attempts suicide considers survival a failure, but the hero rejoices that he lives. Consider the soldier who jumps on a grenade to shield his comrades: out of love for them, he spares not his own life from them, but still he prays that the grenade does not go off, or if it does, that his injuries are survivable. More Medals of Honor have been awarded for this act than any other, yet the valor of the handful who survived is not thereby diminished. Indeed, placing yourself in a position that you fully expect to die in order to save others only to pull through is a kind of resurrection. It is not for nothing that Abraham promised that he would return with Isaac after worshipping on Moriah, though he believed he would have to offer Isaac as a holocaust, for he knew that God’s promises could not be thwarted even by death, because God can give life to the dead.
 
For one thing, you can’t very well extract your own vital organ and transplant it into another person. To give away an organ that you need to survive necessarily requires soliciting someone else to kill you. For a doctor to kill a patient deliberately is murder, moreover, it is blasphemy, for the doctor swears to God to use the medical arts to heal, and never to kill. Soliciting him to do this is scandal.
 
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mythbuster1 said:
For one thing, you can’t very well extract your own vital organ and transplant it into another person. To give away an organ that you need to survive necessarily requires soliciting someone else to kill you. For a doctor to kill a patient deliberately is murder, moreover, it is blasphemy, for the doctor swears to God to use the medical arts to heal, and never to kill. Soliciting him to do this is scandal.
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If kidnappers say they are going to kill the hostages, unless you shoot yourself in the head, is it morally permissible to sacrifice yourself for others in that way?
 
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Guilherme1 said:
If kidnappers say they are going to kill the hostages, unless you shoot yourself in the head, is it morally permissible to sacrifice yourself for others in that way?
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Yes. Just like a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers.
In both cases the INTENT is to save others.
 
Golden rule when verifying the morality of human acts: one must analyze the act itself, the main intentions of the one acting and the circumstances surrounding the act. All of them have to be considered good in order to call the act moral.

With this in mind, I’m sure you’ll find the answer you’re looking for.
 
Guilherme1 said:
differences between suicide and sacrifice
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Suicide: The person’s goal is to kill themselves and they would be disappointed if, through some surprise, they live.

Sacrifice: The person’s goal is to save someone else, and though they expect to die they’ll be delighted if, through some surprise, they live.
 
Montrose said:
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Guilherme1:
If kidnappers say they are going to kill the hostages, unless you shoot yourself in the head, is it morally permissible to sacrifice yourself for others in that way?
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Yes. Just like a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers.
In both cases the INTENT is to save others.
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Hmm, I’m not sure the answer actually is yes? 🤔 Getting in the way of a grenade that’s already going off (or jumping in front of a bullet fired by someone else) is one thing. But actually pulling the trigger yourself?

I don’t see how that couldn’t lead down the slippery slope to people saying they should be allowed to kill themselves when their “intent” is to “save” their family from the burden of caring for them. That’s already a common motivation most places where euthanasia is legal. But the Church still says suicide is unacceptable, and not among the “sacrifices” we may contemplate making.

Not to mention on a purely pragmatic level, the suggested hypothetical is questionable. No kidnapper should ever be trusted. After you shot yourself the kidnapper would probably just kill the hostages anyway. People who threaten murder can’t be trusted to not also lie.
 
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MNathaniel said:
Hmm, I’m not sure the answer actually is yes? 🤔 Getting in the way of a grenade that’s already going off (or jumping in front of a bullet fired by someone else) is one thing. But actually pulling the trigger yourself?
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In both cases the intent is to save lives. The intent is not to commit suicide.
 
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Montrose said:
In both cases the intent is to save lives. The intent is not to commit suicide.
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Fair enough, it could be that your example holds. I just then wonder about where exactly the slippery slope would stop, e.g. if someone said they’re utterly convinced their mentally ill child will commit suicide if forced to care for them in their state of aging decline (or if, say, caregiving costs are expected to be so high that one’s family becomes destitute and perhaps the health of other family members suffers), so the parent directly kills themselves rather than seeking a different way around the trials.

Again, I’m personally less interested in the rare horror movie hypotheticals, and more interested in the actually super frequent situation of euthanasia (physician assisted suicide) chosen because, in not-insignificant part, someone tells themselves it’s the ‘noble’ or ‘sacrificial’ thing to do.

And the Church forbids it. So I’d be curious to hear from a bioethicist where the line is between your example and mine. What the distinguishing principle is (if such exists).
 
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MNathaniel said:
e.g. if someone said they’re utterly convinced their mentally ill child will commit suicide if forced to care for them in their state of aging decline (or if, say, caregiving costs are expected to be so high that one’s family becomes destitute and perhaps the health of other family members suffers), so the parent directly kills themselves rather than seeking a different way around the trials.
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Personally I would call that a suicide. The parent is not killing his/her self to save anyone. They are just looking for a way out of the responsibility for looking after their child.
 
Montrose said:
Personally I would call that a suicide. The parent is not killing his/her self to save anyone. They are just looking for a way out of the responsibility for looking after their child.
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Perhaps I was unclear in my phrasing? I meant, the parent is aware the child will have to undertake the responsibility of looking after them. The parent believes the child will be overwhelmed by the responsibility. The parent wants to “save” the child from breaking under this “burden” that the parent believes their own continued life (the life of the parent) will constitute.
 
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Say you give two people have a hundred dollars each. The first denies the value of money and claims it is worthless, so he throws it at a homeless person and walks away. The second one knows exactly how valuable it is and how much it can help him, but he gives it to a homeless person in need anyways. Both gave their money to the homeless, only one valued your gift enough to sacrifice it.
 
MNathaniel said:
Perhaps I was unclear in my phrasing? I meant, the parent is aware the child will have to undertake the responsibility of looking after them. The parent believes the child will be overwhelmed by the responsibility. The parent wants to “save” the child from breaking under this “burden” that the parent believes their own continued life (the life of the parent) will constitute.
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I don’t think such a situation would ever arise. In any event the parent killing his/her self is a suicide and not a sacrifice.
 
Intent is only part of the examination of moral action. A Primer on Catholic Morals

The act of suicide is an affront to the 5th commandment. Getting killed is not (though someone killing you very well may be).

Therefore, it would seem such an act is not moral.
 
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