Differences between the Traditional Catholics and Charismatic Catholics

[Heuchler]

OK, I understand, and agree for the most part.
However, (why is there always a however? ), and I am thinking (typing) out loud here, so if I confuse, please ask for clarification.

I think you may be looking at this a little too literally. Yes, most of the Apostles were martyred, and in some very horrific ways. But couldn’t be said that someone who chooses to live their life, using the gifts much like the Apostles did are suffering “martyrdom” just the same. They may not be loosing the actual, physical lives, but there is loss in other ways.

As I have become stronger in my faith, and have stared to speak out on many of the issues that plague my diocese, I have lost many friends, have had many strained relationships, and have suffered greatly for trying to uphold my values & beliefs, which, to most of my “inner circle” is looked at as “crazy, rigid and legalistic”- and these people are my family & closest friends!

Not martyrdom in the truest sense, but it is giving up one life to have that “something more”.

Pentacost and martyrdom can only be first achieved once you leave the upper room. Pentacost was the event of the apostles preaching to the people in Jerusalem in all languages at once and causing the conversion of many. Our point here is that if the charismatic renewal is a true renewal and like pentacost then charismatics need to leave the upper room and change the world. If the Holy Spirit is truly there and working as in Pentacost, then we will see the world begin to change very rapidly.

 

[Denise1957]

OK, I understand, and agree for the most part.
However, (why is there always a however? ), and I am thinking (typing) out loud here, so if I confuse, please ask for clarification.

I think you may be looking at this a little too literally. Yes, most of the Apostles were martyred, and in some very horrific ways. But couldn’t be said that someone who chooses to live their life, using the gifts much like the Apostles did are suffering “martyrdom” just the same. They may not be loosing the actual, physical lives, but there is loss in other ways.

As I have become stronger in my faith, and have stared to speak out on many of the issues that plague my diocese, I have lost many friends, have had many strained relationships, and have suffered greatly for trying to uphold my values & beliefs, which, to most of my “inner circle” is looked at as “crazy, rigid and legalistic”- and these people are my family & closest friends!

Not martyrdom in the truest sense, but it is giving up one life to have that “something more”.

You raise some good points here. Of course as Catholics, if we strive to uphold the moral teachings of the Church, we will often be met with resistence. I guess it’s a sort of dry martyrdom that you are describing, and its wonderful that you are willing to do this for the Church. I think that Catholics throughout history have suffered in this way.
But the Apostles suffered in a specific way. All except one were martyred. So in using them as an example, those who support CCR, I think, need to examine why they (the Apostles) were given these gifts to evangelize, and how strong their faith was to have endured to the end. For these martyr-Apostles, the gifts were not given as a “feel good” thing. They were for a specific purpose. They were called upon to embrace the Cross as Our Lord did. How many of us are willing to really do this, to suffer as the Apostles did? Not me, anyway - at least I don’t think so!

 

[vardaquinn]

Pentacost and martyrdom can only be first achieved once you leave the upper room. Pentacost was the event of the apostles preaching to the people in Jerusalem in all languages at once and causing the conversion of many. Our point here is that if the charismatic renewal is a true renewal and like pentacost then charismatics need to leave the upper room and change the world. If the Holy Spirit is truly there and working as in Pentacost, then we will see the world begin to change very rapidly.

The point Denise was trying to make is that if this was as similar to Pentacost as some seem to say, charismatics would leave the “upper room” so to speak and use their gifts for the edification of Catholicism. As I have never seen these gifts or anything in particular that has been “revived” by the charismatics used for the eidfication of the church or outside of their meetings I fail to see it as a new pentacost. If it were like Pentacost then the charismatics of your town would go out filled with the Holy Spirit and work for the conversion of your area and a visible difference would easily be seen within the month.

Very very well said. You’re dead on.

Regarding the above quote, I might have a little more respect for advocates of speaking in tongues and prophesy if they truly lived the life of the Apostles, whom they so often refer to. After all, what happened to the Apostles after they went into the marketplace to proclaim Christ? Here’s what happened: they all, except John, eventually met with martyrdom. If all of those who are so focused on the Apostles and the gifts of the Holy Ghost would be brave enough to go into dangerous parts of the world to speak in tongues and convert others even when they know they will likely meet with death, then I might reconsider my stance. I can think of a few places where such zeal would be needed. At this time, Somalia can use a few zeal-filled Charismatics to proclaim Christ and convert the vicious wardlords there. Would you be willing to do so? And there are places in Mexico which could use a bit of re-evangelization. How many Charismatics are there who are using their God-given charismatic gifts to convert the drug warlords in Ciudad Juarez? I can list a few other places as well, but you get the picture.

You have a very valid and fair argument. Though I know of charismatics who are going into these areas (Africa and Mexico anyway), there certainly is not enough of them. I honestly do know of people who are doing things like this, and God works miracles for them. However, we do have quite a few problems here at home in America and we should all follow our own callings and vocations. If God sends me to Somalia, you can be sure I will go there. As Oneofthewomen said:

Denise, please understand I am not picking on you at all, your comment though, really touched a nerve with me. Not because I think you are bashing anything, it just caused me to think. I live in a neighborhood, in a mid-sized city in western NY that, statistically, is more dangerous than Kabul, Afghanistan. If the gifts of the HS are needed anywhere, it’s in my neighborhood, and maybe that is the point of the Charismatic Renewal. Not to go out to the “troubled spots” of the world and use these gifts, but to use them in our everyday lives, in our own neighborhoods.

(very well put).

You all have good points here.

 

[guanophore]

Quote from the above post:

“They went from being cowardly hiding in the upper room to proclaiming Christ in the marketplace.”

Regarding the above quote, I might have a little more respect for advocates of speaking in tongues and prophesy if they truly lived the life of the Apostles, whom they so often refer to. After all, what happened to the Apostles after they went into the marketplace to proclaim Christ? Here’s what happened: they all, except John, eventually met with martyrdom. If all of those who are so focused on the Apostles and the gifts of the Holy Ghost would be brave enough to go into dangerous parts of the world to speak in tongues and convert others even when they know they will likely meet with death, then I might reconsider my stance.

LOL. Well that would certainly also cut down on any noise the Renewal is making, as the loudest adherants would be more quickly silenced.

You are right, of course, about the radical call to evangelize. This has been a persistent theme from the Bishops and Holy Fathers, and is of course, the main thrust of the work of the Spirit, who desires that all men be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

In the United States the American Catholic Bishops have issued several statements. The Bishops Committee on Doctrine wrote in 1969 that theologically the movement has legitimate reasons of existence. It has a strong biblical basis. It would be difficult to inhibit the working of the Spirit which manifested itself so abundantly in the early Church. In 1975 the American bishops published another statement that quoted scriptural directives: To the members of the movement, then, to pastors and to all the faithful in Christ, we commend the words of Scripture which we take as our own guiding light: Do not stifle the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test everything; retain what is good. Avoid any semblance of evil (1 Thessalonians
5:19-22). We encourage those who already belong and we support the positive and desirable directions of the charismatic renewal.

The Bishops Ad Hoc Liaison Committee with the renewal issued still another Pastoral Statement on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in 1984. “We especially rejoice in the efforts to foster the pursuit of holiness, to encourage Catholics to a fuller participation in the Mass and the sacraments, to develop ministries to serve the parish and local Church, to foster ecumenical bonds of unity with other Christians, to participate in evangelization.”

Obviously, our Traditional siblings already posess the pursuit of holiness and fullness of participation in the sacramental life of the Church. The Renewal is focused on those who have fallen away from these things. Traditionals are like the elder brother, rather than the prodigal that needs to return home. Personally, I think evangelization needs to begin in the pews of the Church, and among those Catholics who are failing to occupy them, rather than Traditional Catholics who are already devoted to the Sacramental life of the Church. I see hundreds of Catholics presenting themselves every week for communion, but barely a handful at confession. Why is this? Are those few of us who are conscious of our sins so much more defiled than the rest of the parish? I think not. On the contrary, I think the vast majority of American Catholics are living in a state of mortal sin, and commit sacrilege by presenting themselves for communion. These are the ones that need to be evangelized.

I can think of a few places where such zeal would be needed. At this time, Somalia can use a few zeal-filled Charismatics to proclaim Christ and convert the vicious wardlords there. Would you be willing to do so?

Just as one needs to be open to all that God has to give and demand, so must each of us be willing to go where we are sent. I remember the song “I will go, Lord, if you lead me, I will hold, your people in my heart”. We are all called to evangelize. For most of us, I think this is in our day to day interactions, but some are also called as missionaries and need to be ready, willing, and able to go.

And there are places in Mexico which could use a bit of re-evangelization. How many Charismatics are there who are using their God-given charismatic gifts to convert the drug warlords in Ciudad Juarez? I can list a few other places as well, but you get the picture.

I do get the picture.

Never mind the warlords, but what about the Catholics that are leaving the Church in droves for deficient Protestant communities because they don’t know their faith? Mexico and South America are in deep kim chee right now.

 

[Indyann]

Pentacost and martyrdom can only be first achieved once you leave the upper room. Pentacost was the event of the apostles preaching to the people in Jerusalem in all languages at once and causing the conversion of many. Our point here is that if the charismatic renewal is a true renewal and like pentacost then charismatics need to leave the upper room and change the world. If the Holy Spirit is truly there and working as in Pentacost, then we will see the world begin to change very rapidly.

From the Vatican website. How some charismatic Catholics have “left the upper room”. Scroll down to “works”.

va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_pc_laity_doc_20051114_associazioni_en.html#CATHOLIC%20FRATERNITY%20OF%20CHARISMATIC%20COVENANT%20COMMUNITIES%20AND%20FELLOWSHIPS

 

[Heuchler]

From the Vatican website. How some charismatic Catholics have “left the upper room”. Scroll down to “works”.

va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_pc_laity_doc_20051114_associazioni_en.html#CATHOLIC%20FRATERNITY%20OF%20CHARISMATIC%20COVENANT%20COMMUNITIES%20AND%20FELLOWSHIPS

I have to say that this is what we need. However, if the whole of the Charismatic renewal and all the people who have supposedly received the gifts of a renewed Pentacost, I would be more convinced that the majority of these gifts were real. As these gifts are hardly used for evangelization nor do most lead to anything similar to the Apostles calling, I see little reason to put as much emphasis on these gifts themselves as the movement does. I find people can be on fire for God without being special and having these gifts.

 

[guanophore]

Pentacost and martyrdom can only be first achieved once you leave the upper room. Pentacost was the event of the apostles preaching to the people in Jerusalem in all languages at once and causing the conversion of many. Our point here is that if the charismatic renewal is a true renewal and like pentacost then charismatics need to leave the upper room and change the world. If the Holy Spirit is truly there and working as in Pentacost, then we will see the world begin to change very rapidly.

I see your point, but there was something else that happened too at Pentecost, which is where I see the conversion taking place.

Acts 2:40-42
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

What I see are lapsed Catholics like myself returning to their sacramental life, devoting themselves to learning their faith, to replacing wordly activities with fellowship and practicing prayers. There is always great devotion to the Blessed Sacrament, and at all the conferences a chapel set aside for adoration. Unless the faithful are well formed, catechized, and solid in their faith practices, they will not be fit for the battlefield of evangelization. What you are proposing is valid, of course, but the world that needs to change first is the one on the inside. Gifts may bring someone close to God, but only the practice of spiritual discipline will bring about the spiritual maturity that one needs to evangelize. The world can be reached, sometimes just one soul at a time.

 

[Heuchler]

I see your point, but there was something else that happened too at Pentecost, which is where I see the conversion taking place.

Acts 2:40-42
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

What I see are lapsed Catholics like myself returning to their sacramental life, devoting themselves to learning their faith, to replacing wordly activities with fellowship and practicing prayers. There is always great devotion to the Blessed Sacrament, and at all the conferences a chapel set aside for adoration. Unless the faithful are well formed, catechized, and solid in their faith practices, they will not be fit for the battlefield of evangelization. What you are proposing is valid, of course, but the world that needs to change first is the one on the inside. Gifts may bring someone close to God, but only the practice of spiritual discipline will bring about the spiritual maturity that one needs to evangelize. The world can be reached, sometimes just one soul at a time.

Why wouldn’t the Holy Spirit help those who are lapsed along with those who aren’t Catholic. Why isn’t there a great move to go out into the world and evangelize others? Why does the charismatic renewal tend to lead toward the personal instead of helping the world and producing good works?

 

[guanophore]

I find people can be on fire for God without being special and having these gifts.

I find that people who are on fire for God are special, and have received a gift.

 

[Heuchler]

I find that people who are on fire for God are special, and have received a gift.

Let me rephrase it so you can understand what I meant. I find people who are on fire for God without having to feel like they are special and have been given some great charism (gift). “Blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe”
Blessed are those who don’t speak in tongues, laugh or cry uncontrollably, and fall down yet still believe.

 

[Denise1957]

LOL. Well that would certainly also cut down on any noise the Renewal is making, as the loudest adherants would be more quickly silenced.

You are right, of course, about the radical call to evangelize. This has been a persistent theme from the Bishops and Holy Fathers, and is of course, the main thrust of the work of the Spirit, who desires that all men be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

In the United States the American Catholic Bishops have issued several statements. The Bishops Committee on Doctrine wrote in 1969 that theologically the movement has legitimate reasons of existence. It has a strong biblical basis. It would be difficult to inhibit the working of the Spirit which manifested itself so abundantly in the early Church. In 1975 the American bishops published another statement that quoted scriptural directives: To the members of the movement, then, to pastors and to all the faithful in Christ, we commend the words of Scripture which we take as our own guiding light: Do not stifle the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test everything; retain what is good. Avoid any semblance of evil (1 Thessalonians
5:19-22). We encourage those who already belong and we support the positive and desirable directions of the charismatic renewal.

The Bishops Ad Hoc Liaison Committee with the renewal issued still another Pastoral Statement on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in 1984. “We especially rejoice in the efforts to foster the pursuit of holiness, to encourage Catholics to a fuller participation in the Mass and the sacraments, to develop ministries to serve the parish and local Church, to foster ecumenical bonds of unity with other Christians, to participate in evangelization.”

Obviously, our Traditional siblings already posess the pursuit of holiness and fullness of participation in the sacramental life of the Church. The Renewal is focused on those who have fallen away from these things. Traditionals are like the elder brother, rather than the prodigal that needs to return home. Personally, I think evangelization needs to begin in the pews of the Church, and among those Catholics who are failing to occupy them, rather than Traditional Catholics who are already devoted to the Sacramental life of the Church. I see hundreds of Catholics presenting themselves every week for communion, but barely a handful at confession. Why is this? Are those few of us who are conscious of our sins so much more defiled than the rest of the parish? I think not. On the contrary, I think the vast majority of American Catholics are living in a state of mortal sin, and commit sacrilege by presenting themselves for communion. These are the ones that need to be evangelized.

Just as one needs to be open to all that God has to give and demand, so must each of us be willing to go where we are sent. I remember the song “I will go, Lord, if you lead me, I will hold, your people in my heart”. We are all called to evangelize. For most of us, I think this is in our day to day interactions, but some are also called as missionaries and need to be ready, willing, and able to go.

I do get the picture.

Never mind the warlords, but what about the Catholics that are leaving the Church in droves for deficient Protestant communities because they don’t know their faith? Mexico and South America are in deep kim chee right now.

I think I undertstand what you’re saying here. But what you are describing is different from what the Apostles were called to do. As Heuchler accurately stated, Pentacost was the event of the Apostles preaching to the people in Jerusalem in all languages at once and causing the conversion of many.

The traditional approach says that after the Apostolic Age, these gifts were no longer in widespread use. It’s obvious that they are still not in widespread use, as the Apostles used them, anyway. CCR cannot be based on what the Apostles received at Pentacost, because they don’t do what the Apostles did with their presumed ‘gifts.’

 

[Inquiringperson]

I have to say that this is what we need. However, if the whole of the Charismatic renewal and all the people who have supposedly received the gifts of a renewed Pentacost, I would be more convinced that the majority of these gifts were real. As these gifts are hardly used for evangelization nor do most lead to anything similar to the Apostles calling, I see little reason to put as much emphasis on these gifts themselves as the movement does. I find people can be on fire for God without being special and having these gifts.

I do agree with you. I believe in the charisms, but doubt a lot of time whether these gifts were real or not. If we, as Catholics, have a gift, we should use it as the light to those who need it.

 

[vardaquinn]

However, if the whole of the Charismatic renewal and all the people who have supposedly received the gifts of a renewed Pentacost, I would be more convinced that the majority of these gifts were real. As these gifts are hardly used for evangelization nor do most lead to anything similar to the Apostles calling, I see little reason to put as much emphasis on these gifts themselves as the movement does. I find people can be on fire for God without being special and having these gifts.

Some of the gifts are very useful and for evangelization, some of them aren’t.

I would be willing to bet you a lot of money that the people on fire for God do have charisms, and do use them, though either in a less explicit way, or not the more flashy gifts like tongues. Even if they don’t know it.

Why wouldn’t the Holy Spirit help those who are lapsed along with those who aren’t Catholic. Why isn’t there a great move to go out into the world and evangelize others? Why does the charismatic renewal tend to lead toward the personal instead of helping the world and producing good works?

Well, with the charismatics (especially charismatic priests) I know, there is a great emphasis put on this. It has to be both of course. In fact, I would say that I see more of this emphasis than from any other movement or group in the Church, though I would be happy to be proved wrong there.

Charismatic Renewal must lead to a personal renewal, in the context of the new evangelization, so that these individuals who are filled with the Holy Spirit and His gifts can then go out and evangelize. Evangelization is one of our primary duties.

The traditional approach says that after the Apostolic Age, these gifts were no longer in widespread use. It’s obvious that they are still not in widespread use, as the Apostles used them, anyway. CCR cannot be based on what the Apostles received at Pentacost, because they don’t do what the Apostles did with their presumed ‘gifts.’

Yes, and it is true they were no longer in widespread use. They are becoming more in widespread use, as the Popes especially have noted. The CCR is based on what the Apostles received at Pentecost, and they are going out and doing what the Apostles did with their gifts - at least, the charismatics I know.

I will make a confession here. For all my talk about this, I do not live this very well. And I will ask your forgiveness for that, because that is simply down to my own many personal failings.

 

[guanophore]

Let me rephrase it so you can understand what I meant. I find people who are on fire for God without having to feel like they are special and have been given some great charism (gift). “Blessed are those who have not seen yet still believe”

Yes. Of course!

Some people carry their fire on the inside more than others. The fire has the same source, and purpose.

 

[vardaquinn]

annarbor.ucoweb.org/files/audio/archive/09_01_20_EdFriede_HolySpiritInEveryDayLife.mp3

This is an interesting talk from a charismatic Catholic priest in which he recounts many stories of his in his experience in evangelizing. I’ve met him, he would certainly be an example of a charismatic Catholic going at it like the Apostles - and very orthodox and loyal to the Church.

 

[Heuchler]

Right now, I’d like to simply make it known that I really don’t like the way these threads tend to go. They leave me annoyed and argumenative. So, let’s just say that the Holy Spirit works in many different ways in each of our lives and that the charisms do exist whether they appear often or seldom. No matter what though use the Holy Spirit and the gifts God has given you to fight for your faith and to promote God, the Eucharist, and Catholicism in general. If you follow this and live a life with love, being charismatic or traditionalist will be unimportant. I think this is the true way that both of these beliefs aim for so we should simply have a love and respect for Catholicism and work for the conversion of the world. It’s not about the charisms or about Latin mass, it’s about loving the Lord your God and loving your neighbor.

 

[guanophore]

CCR cannot be based on what the Apostles received at Pentacost, because they don’t do what the Apostles did with their presumed ‘gifts.’

I think this position is not reconcilable with the Scripture and the Teaching of the Church. The Church teaches that each of us is called to sanctity, and that we all have vocation. To accomplish these goals, we are infused with the same HS that filled the Aposltes in the upper room. Granted, they had a special mission that is unique, but the same Spirit, and the gifts that accompany that Spirit were poured out upon all the disciples. Not all those who receive the Gifts of the Pentecostal outpouring were called to the same ministry as the Apostles.

Acts 19:1-7
1 While Apol’los was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve of them in all.

There is no further record of these disciples, but later when Paul writes to the Ephesian Church about the gifts of the HS, clearly they are not all called to the same type of work that the Apostles were.

Eph 4:11-16
1 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.

The purpose of the gifts is to equip the saints for “the work of the ministry, for the building up of the Body of Christ”. As has been pointed out, evangelization is part of that work, but also, that we stay firm in our faith “no longer tossed to and fro” (falling into error) and to bring us to maturity in the faith, and to occupy our rightful place in the Body.

As the Apostle clearly teaches, each part of the Body has a different function, and not all are called to the same activity. The Source, though, is the same in all.

 

[guanophore]

Right now, I’d like to simply make it known that I really don’t like the way these threads tend to go. They leave me annoyed and argumenative. So, let’s just say that the Holy Spirit works in many different ways in each of our lives and that the charisms do exist whether they appear often or seldom. No matter what though use the Holy Spirit and the gifts God has given you to fight for your faith and to promote God, the Eucharist, and Catholicism in general. If you follow this and live a life with love, being charismatic or traditionalist will be unimportant. I think this is the true way that both of these beliefs aim for so we should simply have a love and respect for Catholicism and work for the conversion of the world. It’s not about the charisms or about Latin mass, it’s about loving the Lord your God and loving your neighbor.

:clapping:

:dancing:

:extrahappy:

:bounce:

 

[ClayPots47]

I don’t care if it’s currently allowed by the Church, so is the sacrilege of taking communion in the hand.

I suggest you read the sticky regarding Please read before posting as you are possibly violating forum rules.

The same rules that are being enforced in L & S apply in TC.
You may not make disparaging remarks about:

**Lawful** actions and disciiplines by the Church

CITH is a lawful action and discipline, by indult; to refer to it as ‘sacrilege’ is tantamount to making a disparaging remark.

Also, although Our Lady of the Roses isn’t currently approved (and I know very little about the apparitions to comment) this article only references them, so I’ll link it also.

linkremoved.org/news8/charismaticmovement.htm

Banned Topics List

1. Promoting unapproved apparitions and revelations (those not approved by the Church for private or public devotion) or alleged private locutions

Bayside is not only unapproved, it has been actually condemned; links to websites are not allowed as it is considered promoting them.

 

[Denise1957]

I think this position is not reconcilable with the Scripture and the Teaching of the Church. The Church teaches that each of us is called to sanctity, and that we all have vocation. To accomplish these goals, we are infused with the same HS that filled the Aposltes in the upper room. Granted, they had a special mission that is unique, but the same Spirit, and the gifts that accompany that Spirit were poured out upon all the disciples. Not all those who receive the Gifts of the Pentecostal outpouring were called to the same ministry as the Apostles.

Acts 19:1-7
1 While Apol’los was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve of them in all.

There is no further record of these disciples, but later when Paul writes to the Ephesian Church about the gifts of the HS, clearly they are not all called to the same type of work that the Apostles were.

Eph 4:11-16
1 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.

The purpose of the gifts is to equip the saints for “the work of the ministry, for the building up of the Body of Christ”. As has been pointed out, evangelization is part of that work, but also, that we stay firm in our faith “no longer tossed to and fro” (falling into error) and to bring us to maturity in the faith, and to occupy our rightful place in the Body.

As the Apostle clearly teaches, each part of the Body has a different function, and not all are called to the same activity. The Source, though, is the same in all.

I don’t think it’s a matter of what I wrote being reconcilable with scripture and Church teaching. It’s more a matter of observation that the CCR folks (for the most part) do not do what the Apostles did. They - and yourself - frequently quote the Apostles and Pentacost (the descent of the Holy Ghost upon them). But again, CCR folks aren’t doing what the Apostles did, nor are they, for the most part, putting themselves in harms way to deliver the message of Christ to unbelievers, as the Apostles did. Pentacost was not about feeling good about themselves, it was about being able to spread the Faith in an extraordinary manner. The extraordinary gifts, for the most part, died out after the Apostolic Age.

I would agree that each part of the body has a different function - in that we are individuals and have various talents. But I believe that we can be aware of what these talents are, if we have a life of prayer and devotion. Maybe some need to develop the extraordinary gifts in order to know what they are supposed to do, and that’s okay, I think. But some of us prefer to use the old-fashioned means of traditional prayer and reflection in order to discern God’s will for us, and what God expects us to do for Him. It works for me, anyway, as far as I can tell.