Different Image of Mary

[ComplineSanFran]

I am, as a non-Roman Catholic, not terribly invested in devotions to Mary, but when I ran across this at the Met in NYC, I was quite taken aback. I wonder what your thoughts are. It’s hardly sweet and syrupy, as so much art work portraying her is today.

It’s 9th century Carolingian.

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[Hereiam]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and art represents cultural norms and expectations.

We have a tendency to view Christ as having fair skin, euro features, and light skin when more than likely he was very middle eastern looking.

Mary may not have been the beautiful by our standards, but both her and Christ are most Holy by any standard.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Yes, it is Mary.

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/17.190.49/

 

[ComplineSanFran]

We have a tendency to view Christ as having fair skin, euro features, and light skin when more than likely he was very middle eastern looking.

Yes, the image Westerners have created of Jesus is not quite the real thing. A couple of years ago, this image was created by British scientists as what Jesus would have looked like. It startled quite a few people, especially those of us who are used to seeing his image as European blonde/blue eyed.

 

[Mark121359]

A couple of years ago, this image was created by British scientists as what Jesus would have looked like.

I’m sorry and no offense. But without a doubt, that has to be one of the most hideous looking images I’ve ever seen. That reminds me of a liberal, politically correct inspired image of Jesus. No thanks. I’ll stick with the image on the Shroud, or St Faustina’s description portrayed in the Vilnius Divine Mercy Image. (below)

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[Vico]

I am, as a non-Roman Catholic, not terribly invested in devotions to Mary, but when I ran across this at the Met in NYC, I was quite taken aback. I wonder what your thoughts are. It’s hardly sweet and syrupy, as so much art work portraying her is today.

It’s 9th century Carolingian.
…

Note the peacocks. The symbol of the peacock represents resurrection, renewal and immortality.

 

[alice24]

I never ´became close with sweet depictions of Mary. I felt connected to the sorrowful Mary, and to Mary as (translated from the orthodox name) “Mary, commander of heavens”. This is a though name. I love her this way.

 

[Thom18]

I’m sorry and no offense. But without a doubt, that has to be one of the most hideous looking images I’ve ever seen. That reminds me of a liberal, politically correct inspired image of Jesus. No thanks. I’ll stick with the image on the Shroud, or St Faustina’s description portrayed in the Vilnius Divine Mercy Image. (below)

At your particular judgement, are you going to call Jesus hideous if this is what He actually looks like?

 

[angel12]

I’ll stick with the image on the Shroud, or St Faustina’s description portrayed in the Vilnius Divine Mercy Image

Which, with all due respect to St. Faustina, doesn’t look very Middle Eastern atvall.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

That’s not really a proper thing to ask.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

Those eyes are a bit unnerving.

 

[Antonela]

This is the description of the ivory plaque:

This splendid carving is one of the largest single ivory panels to survive from Carolingian Europe. The spindles in Mary’s left hand often appear in depictions of the Annunciation, as she receives the news that she is to be the mother of Jesus. The military appearance of her dress and the cross-topped scepter she holds suggest that she could also be understood here to represent the triumph of the Church. The curious juxtaposition of the figure of Mary as the recipient of the Annunciation and as the symbol of the Church is unique to this ivory plaque. Recent cleaning of the ivory has revealed the exceptional beauty of the rhythmic drapery.

When you have some background info it’s not such and odd picture.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

This actually reminds me of some depictions of Peter.

 

[jlhargus]

III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH

CCC972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints," the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.

In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God. Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 6

 

[SeriousQuestion]

The expression does need some work.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I’ve never seen that image of Mary. Quite unusual thanks so much for sharing!

She’s dressed in warrior fashion, don’t you think? The position of her arms and legs is masculine (she’s ‘man spreading’ LOL), not at all submissive, as the later images portray her.

 

[Thom18]

Yes I would. I think our Lord ans Savior resembles what is portrayed on the shroud of Turin. The face that you provide looks like a neanderthal and his face is crooked. It looks like it was taken from an evolution display.

Then I’m praying for you, because I wouldn’t dare call the Savior of the Universe a neanderthal (and that is the question I asked).

Come to think of it, I wouldn’t refer to anyone as such because it’s uncharitable.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Looks fine to me.

Mary isn’t always sweet and syrupy and cuddling a baby Jesus.
There are images of Mary beating the devil with a club, Mary punching the devil in the face, Mary leading an army of warriors etc. Canticle of Canticles 6:10, which is thought to refer to Mary, describes her as “terrible as an army set in battle array.” She’s tough.

 

[BoomerangToo]

It looks like it was taken from an evolution display.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The BBC must really hate Jesus. Take a look at the Fayum Mummy Portraits. They were painted at the time of Christ and are funerary portraits of Egyptians. This is probably very close to what Jesus looked like:

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I apologize for hijacking this thread. I like that Carolingian portrait of Mary, by the way.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This actually reminds me of some depictions of Peter.

Not to derail the thread, but that’s exactly the same thing I said when I saw that months ago when it was first posted here. Looks like Peter or another apostle.

I promptly got lectured by somebody about how I must somehow be uncomfortable with “non-European” images of Jesus. Um, no. I too tend to think Jesus looked like the Shroud of Turin, which is hardly a “European” face. People like to make silly assumptions to further their agendas.