Differentiating Catholicism and Christianity

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Its a simple contrast really.

Contrast ? What contrast ?

We aren’t Protestant Evangelical Christians - but we are Christians even so

Christianity is the whole-hearted belief in and following of The Infallible Word of God and the being lead by the Holy Spirit in everything you do and not letting ritual and tradition dictate anything. To be a Christian is to follow Christ no matter where He takes us. We are His fellow laborers and have to be willing to go where He wants to take us and not be held down by the regulation and burden brought on by repetitive ritual and misunderstood Biblical principle like that making up much the catholic doctrine.

Such as… ?

Psalm 136 is pretty repetitive - yet it’s in the Bible. So repetition as such can hardly be wrong.

As for ritual - what’s wrong with it ? Every church which has worship that is not completely chaotic is to some degree observing a rite. Have a look at 1 Corinthians 14.40 ##

God Bless

You too ​

When we choose to sincerely commit our lives to Christ, we also become joint heirs with Him as it says in scripture, ultimately blatantly showing that we are here for more than “Mass” and charity.

The Mass is not everything: not quite, anyway - & neither is the sun; yet the Mass is far more important to the Church than the sun is to the solar system.​

As for charity: St. Paul thought it was hugely important: see 1 Corinthians 13.

We are here to win a generation to Christ through the spreading of the Gospel of The ONLY Mediator between God and man, The One pierced for our iniquities, bruised for our transgressions, and who chose to save rebellious beings like us to redeem and save from eternal separation from our Father in Heaven. Bottom line, God wants a personal and intimate relationship with each and everybody, and you KNOW if you have that and arguing doctrine is not worth it. Im just spreading the ABSOLUTE TRUTH inspired by the reading of The Word of God. HE knows your heart. I dont. You dictate whether or not God is real in your life or if tedious and repetitive ritual and the praying to a false mediator is all you need.

God Bless You

See above ​

The Mass is capable of being “tedious and repetitive ritual” - but it need not be either. Those things are true as far as they go - but they need to have some flesh put on them: a bit as in Ezekiel 37 That is (partly) why

• the Church is a visible, united, unique, holy, universal, Apostolic society
• doctrine is important
• discipline & good order are important
  OTOH - all Christians are unique individuals
  OTO - all Christians are, in virtue of their baptism into Christ, called to be members of
• Christ
• His Church (see above)
• one another
  What you’re saying is true - & it needs saying: but it is not the whole of the truth as we know it “in Christ”. It is less than what we are able to know.

One thing I would not quite agree with, is the definition of Christianity as “the whole-hearted belief in and following of The Infallible Word of God” - for, although the Bible is of vital importance, even the Bible is less than Christ. He - not the Bible - is the Word through Whom the Father created all things

You may find this, the “Credo of the People of God”, a helpful summary of what we believe - it’s not terribly long: papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6credo.htm

Another link: tcrnews2.com/credopaul.html

Another: newadvent.org/library/docs_pa06cr.htm

You may find the last one the easiest to read, as it shows clearly where the “Credo” itself begins. OTOH, the others are in a larger typeface.

All three have references to other documents which express the doctrines referred to, in greater detail. And all Catholic doctrine can be established by Scripture: either partly, or by Scripture alone.

It doesn’t show how each & every doctrine is connected to each & every other doctrine: that is not its purpose. But it does show what our principal beliefs are. The Catechism of the Catholic Church goes into much greater detail, so it is much easier to get lost in, if one does not know how to find one’s way around.

BTW: we have no “false mediator” - not one, not many, nor any. Mary the Mother of God is very important to us - we do not imagine she is, or could be, equal to her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. The Blessed Mother draws her entire ability to intercede for us from her Son, as He is God, & she is a (very very very…very holy) creature, & not God.

Just so that is cleared up.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Its the other way around there young man. Valid attempt though sir.
Catholicism professes to be fundamentally based on the Bible (The Word of God that Christians choose to live their life according to as a result of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the passion to know more about a God whose mercies are new every day and whose grace extends to call them friend) whereas catholic doctrine is made up of misunderstood Old Testament principle and ritual and tradition that contradicts multiple passages of scripture. God Bless…Im done arguing.

The Church of Christ is based on:​

• The revelation of God the Father made known to us in the Person of the God-man Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit
  This Jesus is the Eternal Word of God, of Whom the written Word of God witnesses, to Whom it points, & by Whose Spirit it is inspired. The Bible is a creature - a created thing; so we cannot put our hope in it as fully as we can & must in Christ: for He is the Lord & Creator, both of the Bible, & of all other things, without exception. For they exist, only that He may be glorified through the power of His Spirit, to the Glory of the Father (Rev. 5).

It is this same Holy Spirit Who provides the Church of Christ, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, with that unconquered stability & inexhaustible fruitfulness which enable her to prevail against the attacks of death & the devil.

Which is why, under God, the Church founded by Christ (which is called “Catholic” because it is designed, not for one people, class, or century, but for the entire human race without distinction: see Galatians 3) is the preserver of the OT which it received from the OT Church (as in Romans 1); &, under God, the provider of the NT.

Had there been no Church, there might well have been no NT; it might have come down to us in some other way, for with God all things are possible, & no one can tell Him what to do - in actuality, it has come down to us in large part through this same Catholic Church. Apart from the Church, we all have the Orthodox to thank for preserving about 5,000 manuscripts of the NT or parts of it: many of which were written while it was in union with Rome.

There is nothing surprising in this, since, though God is Spirit, we are not: & God works through His creatures. Which is what the works of Jesus Christ through His human nature show as well - so: the Church is, in a true sense, Christ made present in His Spirit throughout the centuries & all over the earth. Which is why we need not envy the Apostles

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

…The Catholic church is not the Body of Christ

Yes it is​

nor does it teach of the New Covenant

Yes it does​

or the end of the law brought on by the sending of Jesus by His Father in Heaven.

It teaches that too - it’s in the NT as well.​

Jesus is the end of the law and the ultimate sacrifice and negates Old Testament sacraments. They do not apply to us.

Indeed they don’t - for they pointed to Jesus Christ the Perfect, Unique, Final, All-Sufficient Sacrifice & Priest.​

So there is no place in the Catholic Faith for any other - least of all for those prescribed in the Torah. We have another sacrifice: the acceptable & universal offering, typified by the gifts of Melchizedek (Genesis 14.18-20), & foretold by the Prophet Malachi (1.11)

No sacrifice or offering of the Jews, or of the Gentiles, from before the call of Abram or since, fits the description of Malachi, or the argument in Hebrews against the Levitical sacrifices: except one - the Mass.

Malachi:

• For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the Gentiles, saith Jehovah of hosts. (ASV)
  Even if “shall be” is rendered “is” - how is such a description true of the Gentiles in the prophet’s time ?

But in the Mass, incense is offered to the Glory of the True & Living God - and to no others; for there are none.

Was God glorified by the Chinese, the Maoris, the Britons, or the Babylonians, Romans, & Greeks, when the Prophet spoke ? Not if St.Paul’s indictment of the heathen in Romams 1 is true. If Romans 1 is not to be overthrown, this passage cannot describe the non-Jews of the time of Malachi. Which means those words are unfulfilled - unless the Mass is the “pure offering” described. What offering purer, holier, more gracious, more acceptable, greater as an expiation & propitiation can there be, if not Jesus Christ Whose saving Death is continually set forth, shown forth, re-presented & re-applied, just as He willed & commanded ? Far from rejecting, replacing, refusing, denying, or falsifying the Death of Christ or its effects, the Mass requires, draws upon, applies, & exhibits in a bloodless manner the entire content & purpose of His Sacrificial Offering & Death.

The Mass is our “spiritual sacrifice” & “reasonable worship”, because it is brought about, not by any created power, but by the operation of the Holy Spirit. If the Mass is not Biblical, on the same terms as any other doctrinal truth & fact in the Bible, then nothing is. In fact, it is the “bread of angels”, & a foretaste of the “hidden manna” promised by Christ.

Even the name “manna” points to the Mass - for “manna” is from Heb. “man hu ?” - “what is it ?”

• [Exd 16:15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Exd&chapter=16&version=rsV#) When the people of Israel saw it, they said to one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was. And Moses said to them, "It is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat.
  There is no food to which that question applies - except for the Body & Blood of Christ, which He identifies with Himself, the True Manna. (John 6.25-59; especially 48-58) That is not the word of any mere man: but of Jesus Christ.

…continued…]

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

…continued…]

We are called to believe in The Lord Jesus Christ and to walk in faith, bearing the fruits of the Spirit after accepting Jesus into your life and walking with God in every aspect of your life, putting your trust in Him, and spreading The Gospel of Jesus Christ to all the earth.

Agreed​

Not spreading the premise of Old Testament principle and sacraments that have been negated by the Blood of The Lamb.

The sacraments were prefigured, incompletely, in the OT period; but only in the age of the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ is it fully correct to speak of sacraments in the strict sense.​

As explained, we do not “[spread] the premise of Old Testament principle”; the OT rites have been buried with honour, for they came to their end, fulfilled their purpose, & were completed by Christ, Who is “the end of the Law” - its goal, destination, purpose, reason for existence, & fulfilment. The Mass would not be able to fit into the OT rites, any more than the sun could fit into a ray of its own light: it is greater than that which it succeeds & fulfils, because Christ is greater, better, fuller, more real & more living than, what points to Him. The Mass is too glorious & grace-filled, & powerful & wonderful & great to fit anywhere except into the NT covenant. It is most definitely a NT mode of worship: nothing less divine, sacred, & life-giving will do: certainly nothing we can offer in our own strength - for we are sinners. God must provide it - & He has.

Bottom line is you know if God is real in your life and im not here to condemn.

Understood ​

Jesus is ALIVE and living in those that choose to surrender to Him and invite Him into their lives as the Lord and Savior of their lives…You have to understand guys that its not about the vain repetition of Hail Marys, which i dont understand in the first place,

If you don’t understand it - how can you criticise it ?​

The Rosary is like Acts 7 or Nehemiah 9 - it’s a contemplation & recitation of “mighty acts of God” on behalf of His people; which is about as Biblical as one can get. It concentrates on the Holy Mother of God in the way that it does, because the Eternal Son of God humbled Himself to become, in time, her Son too. All of salvation history - all of creation, actually - “narrows down” to her acceptance of God’s Will by her becoming the Mother of His Son: once that happens, once the angel has come to her, everything “widens out” again, because our salvation begins from the One Who was in her womb.

She is that important.

The Rosary begins with her, & goes on to Him, without Whom, she, like us, has no purpose at all - His works in her, & their results, are the way in which He did His Father’s Will perfectly, to the point of dying for sinners, that He might raise up His redeemed by the power of His Resurrection, which is the guarantee & pattern of theirs. And that obedience & those results, take in every instant of His Life after His conception as man. The Rosary emphasises a few of the more important, as far as her glorification in Heaven.

So just He was in her, she is forever united with Him: because He has destroyed death, there was no death left over for her to die; so she could “not be held by the pains of death” either. As we are His brethren (Psalm 69), His mother is ours: it would be strange if she were not, because He has shared all else with us - His

• Father
• Spirit
• Life
• Body
• Blood
• graces
• promises
• virtues
• angels
• throne
• death
• cross
• trampling of satan underfoot
• sonship
• anointing
• kingship
• priesthood
• holiness
• righteousness
• vocation
• election
• predestination
• Resurrection

• He has kept nothing from us. So how can He, Whose Father is ours, & His Spirit, deny us His mother, who is a creature ?

And if “all things are [ours]” - as St.Paul says they are in Romans 8 (IIRC ); then Mary is most certainly ours, & we are hers ##

but by the belief in Jesus Christ and the confessing repentance of our sins ( which doesnt mean you can do what you want and then just tell your priest about it and be forgiven, it means to turn away from sin and live a life in pursuit of righteousness that you might fulfill the things of the spirit)

We know this ​

…God wants a personal relationship with you, one that is possible because of what Jesus did that day on Calvary.

Agreed; with the necessary reservations already noted. Our relationship with Him is fed, not starved, by the Sacraments: & by the Mass most of all​

God Bless You and I Love and Care about you all
Sincerely
NP
God Bless

That’s very kind of you ​

…continued…]

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

…continued & ended]

Salvation is not comprised of charity, observation of sacraments, and being baptized as a baby.

See above​

Show me in scripture where it even mentions the catholic church or the Holiness of Mary (who was not a virgin after she begot Jesus). Jesus had brothers kiddo.

1. We are those brothers - in the Gospel, He emphasises that his “brothers, and sisters, and mother” are those who do the Will of His Father in Heaven.* That* is what is important - not relations arising from flesh & blood. IOW, He “universalises” His family relationships, so that they are no longer limited by family connections in the usual sense, but are thrown open to all who do His Father’s Will.

A consequence of this is, that His relationship to His mother is redefined: so her motherhood, becomes as universal as His Sonship. His brothers are His brothers, if, & only if, they are sharers in the meaning of His Sonship.

2. His mother certainly did not always understand Him - she was a disciple, a “learner”, as truly as any of us. She is unlike us, however, in that the Gospel nowhere suggests at any personal sin by her; she followed Him from the beginning of His Life in her, to its end; she is never found refusing Him, nor disobeying Him.

Long before He warned His would-be disciples that they must carry their crosses behind Him as He did so, she had been doing that very thing. One of the first results of the Annunciation was, that St.Joseph though she had been unfaithful to him. That is what God seems to do with those He loves - He sends them trials, sufferings, & crosses ***because ***He loves them. He did not spare His own Beloved Son, His Chosen: so why should Mary be spared what her Son was not spared ? She was not above her Master, any more than we are.

If that is not enough - think of this -

Moses in Exodus 33:18-23

Isaiah in Isaiah 6:1-7

Peter in Luke 5:

• 8 When Simon Peter saw this, **he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!” **
• 9 For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken,
• 10 and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon’s partners.
  These were saints “whose praise is in all the churches” - but they were afraid, ruined, unable to see God. Mary not only saw Him - she give Him her own flesh & blood. All that a mother does for a child, she did for Him. If “anyone who gives you a cup of water in My Name because you belong to Christ, will certainly not lose his reward (Mark 9.41)”, what must hers be ? She “entertained”, not angels, but their Lord & Creator.

So how is it possible to read the Bible, & not to find her holiness shown ? Christians are called “holy brethren”; (& in 1 Thessalonians 5.27); & are called upon to “be holy”:

• [1Pe 1:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Pe&chapter=1&version=RSV#) As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,
• [1Pe 1:15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Pe&chapter=1&version=RSV#) but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct;
• [1Pe 1:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Pe&chapter=1&version=RSV#) since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

• so what excludes Mary from being called, & being, holy ? ##