Difficult questions first time poster

[Gorgias]

In these amount of years a little “extra” can be added. Every time it is passed on. Not to diminish the message the person actually heard, they also voiced that along. But this small extra is added. Over a few hundred years it becomes a “big” extra.

So what do we have that will definitely not have these “extras” (whether they are there or not). The scriptures!

So, here’s the thing: we claim that Scripture is inspired and inerrant, not oral traditions. So, no matter how closely the story followed its first telling, we (as Christians) believe that God inspired the writer of Scripture, and thereby, God’s message of self-revelation and of salvation was recorded as He wished it to be.

Whether Moses was wearing a Speedo or not, during the Red Sea crossing, isn’t part of what God would have intended to convey as the ‘literal sense’ of that passage of Scripture. So, if one storyteller included it, and another omitted it, it’s all good: what we got – that is, the written record that has been passed down to us as ‘Scripture’ – is what God intended us to have.

Did the events therein (such as the Red Sea crossing) happen? I guess you have to ask yourself whether God intended us to be ‘fooled’ or ‘misled’, eh?

 

[Kei]

No, I asked him if he was aware of ie the use of right reason in Catholic works.

 

[BlackFriar]

All good stuff.
I pretty much agree with you - though I am a cradle Catholic and 3 x a week Mass goer from 15 until now 60.

My view, for what its worth:

1. Look up “motives of credibility”. Reason cannot substitute for faith, but a faith worth taking on must not only not be consistent and within reason it must also be credible in its transmission and substance. One should not have to leave one’s brains at the door to become a Christian.
2. The Church teaches that at least the existence of God is provable by reason. Having said that it dos not identify any historical argument as having done so!
3. An essential part of Christian faith is trust not only on God but also in those who experienced his Resurrection and passed that knowledge down to us. Atheists (and indeed any vigorous thinker) in my experience have human trust issues, tend to overthink and are not in control of their emotions/insecurity feelings as a direct consequence of standing outside of human community.
4. Faith is a gift. You may not have it yet, though you are clearly searching for the truth and we know what Jesus said about always knocking. OR, for you the issue is not really intellectual but emotional…with these unaddressed feelings projecting/ into your consciousness as issues of intellectual certainty/trust. The solution is not to find an intellectually satisfying solution. The answer is to recognise your unintegrated emotional nature and work on integrating that back into your personality. That may well mean ignoring your mind and working on human trust/bonding issues.
5. Intellectually - we all work from models not from absolute objective truth. It doesn’t exist.
   Well, it may, but we always “touch” it via a model of reality that always has weaknesses. You see those weakness very clearly. Get used to it. Accept its a model which you will one day improve and move beyond…to yet another model. The model can still be trusted 99% of the time so long as we appreciate its a model and no one really knows the full story. Life is about pragmatism not intellective certainty. We are saved by others not by our controlling the future ourselves by knowledge (gets back to trust again doesn’t it).
6. I believe we get what we hope for in the next life - even if we know we cannot prove our hope is real or there is a next life. Maybe faith makes our future reality happen.
7. Bad example re Iliad and reason and chariots in the sky. Greek philosophy was in fact a covert attack on Greek god talk, mythology and superstition - an attempt to pufiy. You haver confused the attack with myth itself. Admittedly the philosophers had to earn a living and couldn’t openly attack Greek mythology and payed lip service to the mythology in their teachings. But its only lip service. The Catholic Church has always held Aristotle and Plato and Socrates in high esteem despite the fact we have significant superstition amongst many of our faithful and officials also.

 

[MichaelP3]

I actually have no issue with what you posted there. But I get the idea you were disagreeing with me on something?

 

[BoyGenius]

How do you have faith in something that exists only as a thought process?

I was thinking, while reading your post, Saint Thomas the Apostle. Then I saw your alias

Can man prove God’s existence? That would be like trying to test, size, and sample data by a set of experiments. Well, since by definition, we say “God”, even in our human, and often feeble attempts. We would have to thus reason, who and/or what is this God (of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) Since we mean by God the Creator. Then we could not prove God by a set of experiments, in so far as we’re trying to make a repeatable sign that He exists.Let me state that in a sort of negative way.

Bear with me, though.

Can certain proofs be ascertained that God exists? Could we elicit this from science, data, and research? And yes, we could. Even under the limited scope of what would be science from Saint Thomas Aquinas’s Summa Theologica (which is a hard read for me.) He does use/develop his theological treatise from actual tangible existent things. To sort out the questions and problems on the existence of God.

Now, to be fair. He wrote that with a Medieval mind. But, let’s look at Saint Thomas Aquinas himself. And you will see where I am going with this.

First, he felt a certain calling to the priesthood. Now, in your mind, intelligence, and all tings observable - you have a talent. And through trial and error, may eventually seek out your interests. Even a career. And perhaps a vocation. Saint Thomas had a beautiful mind. He also had a deep devotion to the Sacraments: “Sensuem Defectui, Fides Supplementum.” Sense fail, but faith supplies. It’s apart of Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament. Have you ever just thought to go before the Blessed Sacrament? And just ask God yourself? I know that sounds so canny. But have you tried it? Just say, “Hi God. I’m here.” And see how God speaks. And listen, possibly intently with your heart and soul. Try it. You may like it

 

[nkelly]

Hello from Ireland, DoubtingThomas!

I sympathize with you difficulty in coming to faith. I spend quite a bit of time learning about apologetics and the one thing I’ve learned is that there is no irrefutable proof that God exists. However, I don’t think there is any need to despair. There are many sound arguments philosophical arguments for God’s existence which show that it’s more plausible that not that God exists.

But at the end of the day some degree of faith is required to find God. Reasoning can only take us as far as God’s door, so to speak. But we must take the initiative to open that door and find him. We must reach out in faith and just across the chasm, not being certain of what’s on the other side.

It’s not easy coming to faith in today’s world given the extent of secular “propaganda” we come across every day. The spirit of the world is in particular opposed to the Gospel of Christ. It takes every teaching of Jesus and turns it upside down, turning good into “evil” and evil into “good”.

I’m wondering how much you’ve studied the arguments for God’s existence? How many of the following are you familiar with?

• Teleological arguments (Fine tuning of the physical constants of nature, the highly improbable origin of life from physical matter
• Kalam Cosmological argument. Beginning of Universe 13.8 Bn years ago when time, space, matter and energy came into existence. “Before” the big bang, there was absolutely nothing. Nothing can do nothing so the universe needs an explanation.
• BGV theorem proving that time had a beginning.
• impossibility of actual infinities implication for time (David Hilbert)
• 2nd law of thermodynamics (Why aren’t all the stars burnt out if the universe is infinitely old?)
• DNA improbability. Life could not have begun to exist through random molecular combination because this is ruled out by the incredible low improbabilities involved.
• Cambrian explosion and its implications for the theory of evolution
• Jesus’ historical death and resurrection. The evidence here is quite strong and the only plausible explanation is that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead, proving that He was the Son of God as He claimed.

Have you read the works of seen the videos of:

• William Lane Craig, philosopher, theologian
• Michael Licona, biblical historian, New Testament scholar
• Gary Habermas, historian, New Testament scholar, philosopher of religion, and Christian Apologist
• Hugh Ross, physicist, cosmologist
• Daniel B Wallace, scripture expert.

God bless you in your search for him!

Noel.