Difficulty with certain Catholics

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Kevin12

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I have written this thread and closed the tab before submitting at least ten times, but I have never been able to post it out of fear of offending someone or causing an argument. But at this point, I just have to ask for help, because I don’t know what else to do.

Without going into much detail, I have lately become so disgusted with certain elements of the traditionalist movement in the Church - I can sum it up by saying I mean those who call people who attend the Novus Ordo mass Neo-Catholics - that it is starting to become a disgust with the Catholicism itself. I used to enjoy the ceremony and color of the Mass, but more and more these things are filled with bad associations for me. I know I should just ignore these people, but I find I can’t, and I don’t know how to stop it.
 
Stay close to the Pope.
And if you have a Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration Chapel nearby,
you could always make a visit there.
These are just my suggestions for
keeping focused.

:blessyou:
 
Kevin12 said:
I have written this thread and closed the tab before submitting at least ten times, but I have never been able to post it out of fear of offending someone or causing an argument. But at this point, I just have to ask for help, because I don’t know what else to do.

Without going into much detail, I have lately become so disgusted with certain elements of the traditionalist movement in the Church - I can sum it up by saying I mean those who call people who attend the Novus Ordo mass Neo-Catholics - that it is starting to become a disgust with the Catholicism itself. I used to enjoy the ceremony and color of the Mass, but more and more these things are filled with bad associations for me. I know I should just ignore these people, but I find I can’t, and I don’t know how to stop it.
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Paraphrasing our Holy Father; who are they to judge you?
 
Kevin12 said:
I have written this thread and closed the tab before submitting at least ten times, but I have never been able to post it out of fear of offending someone or causing an argument. But at this point, I just have to ask for help, because I don’t know what else to do.

Without going into much detail, I have lately become so disgusted with certain elements of the traditionalist movement in the Church - I can sum it up by saying I mean those who call people who attend the Novus Ordo mass Neo-Catholics - that it is starting to become a disgust with the Catholicism itself. I used to enjoy the ceremony and color of the Mass, but more and more these things are filled with bad associations for me. I know I should just ignore these people, but I find I can’t, and I don’t know how to stop it.
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And where are you meeting these people? Perhaps you are just coming into contact with a few swell heads. And those are everywhere, in every Church of every denomination. You don’t have to attend a Traditional Mass you know. Just ignore the swell heads.

Linus2nd
 
Pray for them. You have intense feelings towards these people and you need to release it. So you can hate them, stew over them, or you can pray for them. All of the above will make you feel better, but the later is what both them and you need. Pray to God that He sends the fear of the Lord into their hearts.

Acting in love will also clear your head. Every single one of us has been wrapped up in hate before. It has a snowball effect, where we think about the thing that irritates us, and then we add to it, and then we assume the worst and make additional presumptions, and before we know it we’ve blown it out of proportion to the point that we’re ready to spill blood over a single foul word. Your anger might be clouding you.
 
Linusthe2nd said:
And where are you meeting these people? Perhaps you are just coming into contact with a few swell heads. And those are everywhere, in every Church of every denomination. You don’t have to attend a Traditional Mass you know. Just ignore the swell heads.

Linus2nd
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There was a thread on CAF I was in where apparently a bunch of people from a site called Fish Eaters heard somehow was speaking of traditionalists in not entirely flattering terms, and they all came in to rant about how the NO is full of abuses - and one of them even considered not preaching about the evils of contraception and homosexuality in every Mass an abuse - and those who attend it are modernists. Then I found out they were, on the Fish Eaters forum, actively discussing the CAF thread and making fun of people, including me, who they called crazy since I had mentioned some of the difficulties I had faced from extremely traditional Catholics in the past in a way they thought was too emotional.

After that, I started browsing that forum regularly just to see what these people who had mocked me were like, and I was really shocked by the things I saw, and not just by the virulent antisemitism but the deep contempt these people seemed to have towards non-trads, to the extent that it seemed to be a common bragging point for them to not associate with any non-trads.

I know I should just ignore it, but somewhere it the back of my head I remember this thing I read there:
*
Traditional Catholics’ Motto

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshiped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.*

I feel anxiety over this, but not in the way they intend. What I have seen in these people makes it clear to me they are wrong about a lot of things, but does that mean that the Church 100 years ago was wrong too?
 
I realize there are some who don’t have a choice, but where I live if you don’t like the Novus Ordo Mass, you can go down the road to find a traditional one. I love Mass in the vernacular and can’t imagine Christ sharing the Last Supper while not even facing his disciples. I love our Novus Ordo Mass and will pray for those who are offended by it. Name calling is not loving our neighbor as ourselves…
 
Christ preaches love to our enemies, and love to those who persecute us! Just remember, love breeds more charity, but anger and dissension in turn breed more anger, hatred and disunity. I strongly urge you to pray for these people! Christ wants unity in His Church and one of the best ways to remedy that problem is PRAYER! Pray with a group of people that all may be resolved. Like Jesus said, when two or three are gathered in my name, I am there.

The worst thing you could do is go negatively criticizing them lest you produce more hatred for them in your heart. Even if they judge us, it is not in our place to judge them.

Then again, I am not saying that correction for these types of people is bad, but rather that one should correct these kinds of people with brotherly love, in the way that Jesus would do it.

Deus benedicat tibi in omnibus conatibus tuis. 🙂
 
ElizMary said:
I realize there are some who don’t have a choice, but where I live if you don’t like the Novus Ordo Mass, you can go down the road to find a traditional one. I love Mass in the vernacular and can’t imagine Christ sharing the Last Supper while not even facing his disciples. I love our Novus Ordo Mass and will pray for those who are offended by it. Name calling is not loving our neighbor as ourselves…
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I just want to make it clear that I do not mean all traditionalists - I remember reading an article (somewhere) from a self-identified traditionalist who made a round, unqualified denunciation of antisemitism. So I know that the ones I have encountered (all on the internet as well) are not necessarily the only kind of traditionalist.
 
Facite said:
The worst thing you could do is go negatively criticizing them lest you produce more hatred for them in your heart. Even if they judge us, it is not in our place to judge them.
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You see, this is why I was unable to make this thread in spite of the fact that this has been bothering me for many months. I know I am not a good or a holy person and that I should not judge others but pray for them, but every time I see that term neo-Catholic or Neo-Cat, I just get really frustrated. I wouldn’t ask for advice on this if I didn’t feel it was starting to really effect me personally. I am beginning to feel really lukewarm toward the faith on the whole. Sometimes I even wonder if maybe they are right, which to me just means the God I always thought looked in the heart for a persons goodness is really an uncaring, legalistic God who cares more about rituals than love.
 
Hi Kevin,

I have the same problem, it really upsets me. The things I have heard from a close family member who has recently “fallen in” with this crowd absolutely chills my blood. There is so much superiority, pride and judgement there, and contempt for God’s chosen ones (priests who don’t say traditional mass, the pope, etc). You don’t have to be a genius to see the true source of the movement. All made under the excuse of piety, they remind me of the Pharisees. However the Pharisees were never able to destroy Gods word with all their tricks! Neither will these ones =) But yes… pray. Can you pray for my family member too? 😦 I fear he is in much spiritual danger. I’ll pray for you!
 
Kevin12 said:
I know I should just ignore it, but somewhere it the back of my head I remember this thing I read there:
*
Traditional Catholics’ Motto

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshiped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.*
Click to expand...
Hi again,

Just saw you posted this argument above. This is why I made the comparison to Pharisees, the use of word games to support their ideas. Don’t let them shake you. A little made up poem is not the word of God.
 
Kevin, I go to fisheaters once in a while, too. But when it starts upsetting me – which always happens sooner or later, given the disrespect for the Pope and the Vatican – I just stay away for a while.
I think you’ll feel better if you do the same. 🙂
 
Kevin12 said:
You see, this is why I was unable to make this thread in spite of the fact that this has been bothering me for many months. I know I am not a good or a holy person and that I should not judge others but pray for them, but every time I see that term neo-Catholic or Neo-Cat, I just get really frustrated. I wouldn’t ask for advice on this if I didn’t feel it was starting to really effect me personally. I am beginning to feel really lukewarm toward the faith on the whole. Sometimes I even wonder if maybe they are right, which to me just means the God I always thought looked in the heart for a persons goodness is really an uncaring, legalistic God who cares more about rituals than love.
Click to expand...
Correction: You ARE a good and holy person. You are good because God created you, and you are holy, not because of you, but because of God, who lives within you! You are a walking tabernacle with God in it! I think you hold the fact that God is holy (or holiness to be precise), right? 🙂 I don’t think it’s good to be cutting down on yourself too much. I’ve done it before and all it leads to is scrupulosity, distraction in prayer and in general a lock of focus on Jesus. Don’t focus on how bad you are but on how good you can become if you know that God loves you.

I too have some struggle dealing with Traditionalists. However, the Church, in all her wisdom has allowed the Extraordinary Form of the Mass to be celebrated! The Church wouldn’t have allowed it if it would bring about something bad in the Church. Pope Emeritus Benedict has also said in Summorum Pontificum that the Vetus Ordo Mass should not be a source of disunity.

I just tell myself that if the Church is good with the EF, I’m good with it! 👍
 
Facite said:
Correction: You ARE a good and holy person. You are good because God created you, and you are holy, not because of you, but because of God, who lives within you! You are a walking tabernacle with God in it! I think you hold the fact that God is holy (or holiness to be precise), right? 🙂 I don’t think it’s good to be cutting down on yourself too much. I’ve done it before and all it leads to is scrupulosity, distraction in prayer and in general a lock of focus on Jesus. Don’t focus on how bad you are but on how good you can become if you know that God loves you.

I too have some struggle dealing with Traditionalists. However, the Church, in all her wisdom has allowed the Extraordinary Form of the Mass to be celebrated! The Church wouldn’t have allowed it if it would bring about something bad in the Church. Pope Emeritus Benedict has also said in Summorum Pontificum that the Vetus Ordo Mass should not be a source of disunity.

I just tell myself that if the Church is good with the EF, I’m good with it! 👍
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:)👍 Thanks for reminding me of this! However I still do think many walk dangerously close to heresy and this upsets me 😦
 
Facite said:
Correction: You ARE a good and holy person. You are good because God created you, and you are holy, not because of you, but because of God, who lives within you! You are a walking tabernacle with God in it! I think you hold the fact that God is holy (or holiness to be precise), right? 🙂 I don’t think it’s good to be cutting down on yourself too much. I’ve done it before and all it leads to is scrupulosity, distraction in prayer and in general a lock of focus on Jesus. Don’t focus on how bad you are but on how good you can become if you know that God loves you.

I too have some struggle dealing with Traditionalists. However, the Church, in all her wisdom has allowed the Extraordinary Form of the Mass to be celebrated! The Church wouldn’t have allowed it if it would bring about something bad in the Church. Pope Emeritus Benedict has also said in Summorum Pontificum that the Vetus Ordo Mass should not be a source of disunity.

I just tell myself that if the Church is good with the EF, I’m good with it! 👍
Click to expand...
I have no trouble with the EF at all - I was a Latin minor in college. If people want to hear it, of course they should be allowed to, and if the women want to wear veils and dresses, that’s great too. I just feel like it more often than not is a EF.

About God loving me, I hope he does. I used to be sure he did until I read this sermon of St. Leonard of Port Maurice that says only 5 in 33,000 Catholics (and that’s just Catholics) are saved. I swear that this sermon did more to shake my faith and love of God than anything I read in the New Atheists, and I read my fair share of that so I could defend my faith.
 
Gliggle said:
Hi Kevin,

I have the same problem, it really upsets me. The things I have heard from a close family member who has recently “fallen in” with this crowd absolutely chills my blood. There is so much superiority, pride and judgement there, and contempt for God’s chosen ones (priests who don’t say traditional mass, the pope, etc). You don’t have to be a genius to see the true source of the movement. All made under the excuse of piety, they remind me of the Pharisees. However the Pharisees were never able to destroy Gods word with all their tricks! Neither will these ones =) But yes… pray. Can you pray for my family member too? 😦 I fear he is in much spiritual danger. I’ll pray for you!
Click to expand...
I think there are plenty of good traditionalists, but if I was going to an EF Mass, I would go to one administered by a normal diocese rather with a trained priest rather than go to the FSSP. I have nothing against that group personally, but many of their members seem to still be very attached to most of Archbishop Lefebvre’s views in spite of their refusal to join him in disobedience, though this itself shows they have do have immense courage to not follow someone they so admired.

I will pray for this person, but I am probably more in need of prayer. I am not a good person, or rather, I do a lot of bad things and am unable to confess them sincerely since I know I probably will not stop doing them. I am sure he is in a better state than me.
 
I think we need to realize that a lot of the traditionalists who are like this are what Tim Staples calls, “radical traditionalists”. While they are mostly sedevacantists or Sspx members, I think a minority do have these views while technically staying in union with the church. Pray for them. I think its sad that both sides pick at each other. Both sides need to realize we are one, holy Catholic, and apostolic church.
 
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