DignityUSA's Altar Bread Recipe

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Brendan:

Well, the ingredients have to be wheat and water ALONE. And it must be unleavened in the Latin Church.

If anything else is in the recipie, toss it.

Can I ask why your liturgical director feels it necessary to make your own bread. Would it not be good Christian stewardship to support the fine convents and monastaries that make good hosts for use in Mass.

That is how those religious support themselves you know.

In addition, they have years of experience in creating hosts that do not crumble easily, reducing the chance of dropped consecrated crumbs.

OTOH, the laity did it long before there were religious - it’s something that fell out of use with the gradual loss of involvement of the laity in the liturgy.​

The laity living “in the world” become largely passive, & detached from the liturgical action - when it is in fact as much their sacrifice as it is the priest’s; see the Canon. For the laity to make the bread they offer with the priest and in Christ would make the sign-value of the Eucharist far clearer.

This is not a power issue - it’s an issue of sacramental theology & praxis. The suggestion seems alien, only because the laity have long ceased to have the part they used to. Personally, I blame the barbarisation of the Church which set in after the fall of the Western Empire. ##

 

[msproule]

That’s all very nice, and probably quite accurate historically, but the number of laity needed for such a ministry of baking bread is so few.

Once again I must side with Brendan.

 

[Guy]

In 2001, my wife and I attended an adoption conference put on by our diocesan Catholic Human Services. The conference included a Mass where the priest used a DINNER ROLL as the bread used to confect the Eucharist.

Yikes!!!

 

[Dr.Bombay]

## OTOH, the laity did it long before there were religious - it’s something that fell out of use with the gradual loss of involvement of the laity in the liturgy.

The laity living “in the world” become largely passive, & detached from the liturgical action - when it is in fact as much their sacrifice as it is the priest’s; see the Canon. For the laity to make the bread they offer with the priest and in Christ would make the sign-value of the Eucharist far clearer.

This is not a power issue - it’s an issue of sacramental theology & praxis. The suggestion seems alien, only because the laity have long ceased to have the part they used to. Personally, I blame the barbarisation of the Church which set in after the fall of the Western Empire. ##

The laity are called to live their Faith in the world, not in the sanctuary. What good does it do you to prance around the sanctuary on Sunday, gnawing on the “bread” you made at home if on Monday you go out into the world and gossip, back bite and generally act as a poor witness to the Christian Faith?

For the laity to exemplify Catholic values in the world, not just in the sanctuary, would make the sign-value of Christianity far clearer.

 

[thechrismyster]

they should be excommunicated for even suggestng anyone bake with - and i quote - “1 cup Bisquick”.
These people aren’t Catholicin any sense of the word… they ignore Catholic teaching… Name only mean nothing… they can call themselves unicorns, but they aren’t.

If you don’t follow Catholic teaching, you aren’t Catholic. Period.

 

[Brendan]

## OTOH, the laity did it long before there were religious - it’s something that fell out of use with the gradual loss of involvement of the laity in the liturgy.

The laity living “in the world” become largely passive, & detached from the liturgical action - when it is in fact as much their sacrifice as it is the priest’s; see the Canon. For the laity to make the bread they offer with the priest and in Christ would make the sign-value of the Eucharist far clearer.

This is not a power issue - it’s an issue of sacramental theology & praxis. The suggestion seems alien, only because the laity have long ceased to have the part they used to. Personally, I blame the barbarisation of the Church which set in after the fall of the Western Empire. ##

Why don’t we start with the ‘simple’ things, such as the laity’s involvement in the liturgy at their assigned parts,

such as striking one’s chest during the Confetitor, or performing a profound bow at the words of Incarnation in the Creed.

5 will get 'ya 10 that those involvements of the laity are somehow not on this L.D. schedule.

 

[Chalice]

Brendan:

Why don’t we start with the ‘simple’ things, such as the laity’s involvement in the liturgy at their assigned parts,

such as striking one’s chest during the Confetitor, or performing a profound bow at the words of Incarnation in the Creed.

5 will get 'ya 10 that those involvements of the laity are somehow not on this L.D. schedule.

This is not directed in the documentation for the Pauline Mass. The bow IS part of the rubrics of the Mass.

 

[msproule]

Chalice:

This is not directed in the documentation for the Pauline Mass. The bow IS part of the rubrics of the Mass.

Actually, it was in the original versions of the “Pauline” Mass (1971 and 1975, I believe). The explicit instruction was not part of the most recent revision, but that does not necessarily mean it should not or cannot be done. There are *other *threads which have discussed this thoroughly.

 

[Chalice]

msproule:

Actually, it was in the original versions of the “Pauline” Mass (1971 and 1975, I believe). The explicit instruction was not part of the most recent revision, but that does not necessarily mean it should not or cannot be done. There are *other *threads which have discussed this thoroughly.

Sounds anlogus to holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer:

From Colin Donovan of EWTN:

"The Church neither commands or prevents such gestures of piety by the laity.

In the Tridentine Mass a triple beating of the breast at the Agnus Dei was obliged of the priest, which the laity imitated. In the current rite the priest does not beat his breast at this point. Imitation would suggest that the laity not do so either, but if they do it is not an abuse."

 

[totustuusmaria]

thechrismyster:

they should be excommunicated for even suggestng anyone bake with - and i quote - “1 cup Bisquick”.
These people aren’t Catholicin any sense of the word… they ignore Catholic teaching… Name only mean nothing… they can call themselves unicorns, but they aren’t.

If you don’t follow Catholic teaching, you aren’t Catholic. Period.

You forget, first of all, that in all likelyhood they are already latae sentiae excommunicated and secondly that the “recipe” would invalidate the sacrement. This is a very cynical position to take, but might we look at it as if the dignity masses are invalid (at least under the species of the bread) because it uses other ingrediants which change its essential nature, aren’t they preventing the sacrilege of celebrating a schismatic mass for people at best in the state of grave sin and at worst auto-excommunicated?

 

[msproule]

Chalice:

Sounds anlogus to holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer…

That might be true if holding hands for the Our Father had ever been a gesture assigned to anybody. As far as we know, it never was. Striking the breast, however, was.

Furthermore, Canon Law also states:
Can. 20 A later law abrogates, or derogates from, an earlier law if it states so expressly, is directly contrary to it, or completely reorders the entire matter of the earlier law. A universal law, however, in no way derogates from a particular or special law unless the law expressly provides otherwise.
Since the earlier practice of striking one’s breast at the Confiteor was never expressly discontinued, and since there are many current references suggesting it (for example, the USCCB has a bulletin insert on its website), can one not logically assume that it is to be continued?

In the Tridentine Mass a triple beating of the breast at the Agnus Dei was obliged of the priest, which the laity imitated. In the current rite the priest does not beat his breast at this point. Imitation would suggest that the laity not do so either, but if they do it is not an abuse."

With all due respect, Brendan made no mention of the Agnus Dei, did he?

Sorry to everybody if I caused this thread to go off-topic. Perhaps we should revisit the thread on breast striking?