Dilemma-- should I become Catholic in spite of postmodernism and liberalism in the church?

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Did you mean to say Bishops, Archbishops, or were you talking about the rank and file?
And if you were talking about the rank and file, how would you have access to their fidelity?

:confused:

I can understand you wishing to know about an area where you could easily research the bishop’s stance.

But, the actual day in and day out rank and file? Where would you get that information from?
Strawberry, where can you find info on the Bishop’s stance? That would be a good place to start, anyway.
 
I don’t know how liberal the bishop in your diocese is, but here in Ottawa the Cathedral is pretty orthodox while some of the parishes are way out there liberal. Maybe it’s the same in Portland. You could check out the Cathedral, and maybe sign up for RCIA there. It’s no guarantee, but it seems unlikely they’d have RCIA teachers saying you can be pro-choice and Catholic while under the direction of the bishop.
 
\but I’m leaving the US Episcopal church in search of an ark of safety from postmodernism, feminism, crypto-Marxism, state-worship, etc.\

**Are you looking for the Truth of Christ, or merely esacaping into what you think is a haven of cultural conservatism?

If you join ANY church for ANY reason other than love of Christ, you’ve got things terribly wrong.**
 
Alex and YooperSenior,

Please, please do not get discouraged! Christ wants unity among His brothers and sister and the most obvious route at this is running into His welcoming arms.

It is scandalous that modernism and liberalism have invaded the Church. The first parish I went to was just the same as the ones in your experiences. A whole bunch of ‘inclusiveness,’ liberalism, and absolutely no kneeling, hymns before 1972, or direction on how to become Catholic.

I stopped going to mass and went back into my worldly ways.

Then I tried again, went to the ‘welcome Sunday,’ and at the pre-RCIA meeting was basically put off. The coordinator remarked that it was unclear to her 'why anyone would want to be Catholic (note: on said person’s vehicle I noted a prominent sticker for a presidential candidate very anti-life…) It was not enough that the church was built to look like a ski lodge; I guess the 70s progressives had to inculcate a culture of complete relitivism as well.

Thankfully, I found an orthodox parish. Excellent RCIA program, big group, clear direction, etc.

It astounds me how different I am from over a year ago when I began - and even seven months ago since I had Confirmation.

Please do not let troublemakers get in your way of coming to the Church. Jesus promised Peter that the gates of hell would not stand against him (he didn’t say we would not have to deal with close battles though).
 
I’m in a dilemma and would appreciate advice and/or information.
Hey Alex…I’m no long time catholic but I love our faith and would looove to give you my 2cents…
I’m in RCIA and considering becoming Roman Catholic, partly because I got disgusted by hearing blatant radical feminism and New Age fluff preached by the clergy at the Episcopal church I was attending (not to mention the national leader of the US Episcopal church).
Good for you…keep it old’skool…I myself am a 27 (oh **** I just had a bday, make it 28) year young lady and dont buy into the radical feminism movement and/or new age fluff…Liberals seem to be so happy the younger generations are going to grow up and have this line of thinking, but I’m pretty sure they’re wrong, everyone I kick it with seems to think theres definite roles for women, as mothers, as wives…no, theyre not defined by those roles, but rather respected for em’…I think a lot more people are going back to their roots…what they know…
But I’ve become increasingly dismayed because the RCIA teachers, including the priest, are showing similar tendencies: they use the same annoying so-called “gender-inclusive language” to refer to God; last week one of the teachers referred to the “Sophia” passages in the bible as supposed evidence for a female God (as far as I know those passages are actually a poetic device personifying wisdom but not remotely referring to an actual god or part of the Godhead, and I spoke up in class and said so); also last week the same teacher said that you don’t have to agree with the church on everything, and specifically brought up abortion and said that you can be “pro-choice” and Catholic.
OK, heres what I know…I know theres NO such thing as a pro-choice catholic. CC has orthodoxy, a set of SET beliefs, to stray from them would be UNorthodox and/or, protestant? would that be a good word to use? Sometimes I get the jist but dont know how to put it in words yet…anyhoo…No such thing as a catholic who supports abortion, and I would think that what you should do is bring this up the next time this is brought up in RCIA. and I would definitely advise them, as well as your classmates the teachings of the CC and that it is def. against our beliefs. If you dont, they could be miseducated, then go out in the world, and create more nancy pelosi’s…
One of the big reasons I waited as long as I did to even consider officially becoming Catholic was that I used to be pro-abortion, and while I like a lot about the church I didn’t want to be a hypocrite. I’ve recently had a major change of heart regarding abortion, so it sort of annoys me to finally come to RCIA only to be told essentially that it doesn’t matter; that you can supposedly believe any kind of ultra-liberal fluff and still be Catholic.
no, i think that your background is actually good in this situation. like myself, i’ve lived a life less than…well…lmbo…‘holy’. my whole family is VERY liberal, moms a gender feminist (thats probably why they drive me crazy) and i myself was pro-choice most of my life…it wasnt until i SAW firsthand the after effects of abortions( not myself but friends) that I chose to be against it…and it actually helped lead me into my faith…you see, someone can TELL you its wrong, but sometimes…the best lessons are hardest learned…I wouldnt worry so much as being a hypocrite (you’d be one if you preached against it and then went out and did it) as being someone who knows from experience…I do think that you can be liberal, and be catholic, i dont think your religion should have too much impact on your political affiliation, i mean there are dems who dont support abortion…((i hope))
I’m also disheartened by things like Catholic Campaign for Human Dignity supporting far-left causes (including until recently ACORN); the huge number of radical feminists in church leadership; and the fact that several national church organizations support Obamacare. (I’m glad the Stupak amendment passed, but it’s still an abomination that raises serious concerns about subsidiarity, euthanasia, and rationing.)
AHHHH! totally all things that raise the freakn hairs on the back of my neck as well…but pouting doesnt solve anything…speak up…DO something…I been gettin’ so politically active since all this has been goin on hecka my girlfriends think im nutso…
So, did I **just happen **to walk into the most liberal parish in the US?
NO!! God works in mysterious ways and I’m sure it was NO mistake he sent you into that messed up parish…your obviously needed there, to just pack up and leave and go to another parish wont solve anything, GO SET EM STRAIGHT!

God bless you my friend and I praise you for wanting to teach His truth 👍
 
\but I’m leaving the US Episcopal church in search of an ark of safety from postmodernism, feminism, crypto-Marxism, state-worship, etc.\

**Are you looking for the Truth of Christ, or merely esacaping into what you think is a haven of cultural conservatism?

If you join ANY church for ANY reason other than love of Christ, you’ve got things terribly wrong.**
I respectfully disagree.

You cannot expect a Protestant (or anyone for that matter) to fully accept every dogma and teaching when walking in.

‘We are to come to Him like children’ and if the means Jesus uses to collect more of His sheep happen to be culturally related, that is perfectly fine. People are called through many things (accidents, storms, tragedies, etc.).

Once we are Confirmed, it is our responsiblity to believe and uphold Catholic teachings. We submit to mother Church even if we don’t understand it.

Conversion is a life long process and does not end until we walk through the gates.
 
I do hope you see it through and join the Church! Yes it does seem like you have landed yourself in a super-Iiberal parish, and some of what you described, to me is kind of disturbing :eek: I entered the Church at Easter Vigil 2008, and in my decision to do so, I faced some of the same types of concerns. I was coming from a protestant background where there was much room for personal interpretation, and my view of the Roman Catholic Church was initially shaped by Catholics that I knew. Many of the Catholics I knew rejected many of the Church teachings, and would justify there actions and beliefs all week long, go to mass on Sunday, receive communion and pretend that they were following the rules. I even knew a priest who was a “practicing alcoholic” and would go about business as usual and never got any help. The thing is all Christians are sinful, and make mistakes, and it has been that way from the beginning. Our faith existsjust as it did 2000 years ago that has been preserved and passed down through the help of the holy spirit throughout Roman Catholic history. Times change, popular culture changes, people make mistakes (this includes clergy too). But doctrine of the Church (capital C) is sound, even if many of her people fall away by becoming seduced by what is popular or socially acceptable. Don’t let anything other than the truth of the Church guide your decision and keep in mind that even church-going Catholics, and even priests can be duped and lured away from the true teaching of the Church.

Since I have become Catholic, I find myself, being questioned by others about the error of other Catholics, such as bad priests, dark times in Church history, or having others make negative comments about the Church. I never faced that at a protestant! I was once told by a very wise Catholic, that anything that is holy and good, evil will try to destroy or pervert it, so that people loose sight of the truth, as seen with scandals involving priests making people doubt or fear them, abortion of innocent babies, disregard for the sanctity of marriage between a husband and wife, the misuse of sexuality, and the list goes on. All of the Catholic churchs (little c) that entertain the secular ideas that are contrary to Church teaching are in error, and is just another way for satan to try an weaken our defenses. One way to see this is an affirmation that the RCC has something that is truly special that has set it apart from the begining.

Im so happy that you are wanting to become part of our faith. You seem to have an eye for the truth and are willing to call it like you see it, and we could use more of that! The parish you are at seems to have a lot of folks who need to get their facts straight. I know it makes you feel conflicted, but try to see the bigger picture, and human error for what it is! Good luck Alex!
 
Hello, I think you might find this video helpful.

realcatholictv.com/index.php?id=2085

We always have to distinguish between The Truth that is contained in Divine Revelation and people´s personal opinions, regardless of who they are and what positions they occupy in the Church. There have always been heretics in the Church, and now I would say we are worse off than ever.

However, it looks like you´re quite on track… God bless you on your journey.🙂
 
Unfortunately the situation you described is commonly experienced by many, my wife included. I’ve read of many posts here talking about finding a “conservative” parish but what your soul is yearning for is Truth, beauty, and reverence, and sound doctrine. I would urge you to immediately call your local FSSP or SSPX and get out of the RCIA program. Traditional Catholic Priests will teach you one on one or in small groups, depending on the need. There is no need to subject your soul to liberal (aka modernist) poison. If I had to do it all over again this is the route I would’ve recommended to my wife - but I was ignorant of this option at the time.

You can get in touch with a traditional Catholic Priest at these locations - hopefully there is one close to you - even if there isn’t it would be worth a long drive to get a spiritual Father who cares only for the salvation of your soul.

FSSP:
Does not appear to have an apostulate in OR.

SSPX

EUGENE
St. Thomas Becket Chapel
541-935-8608
25269 E. Bolton Road

VENETA
Sunday 7:15am & 9:00am (High Mass)
Daily 7:15am
(& when school is in 11:15am)
Saturday 8:00am
First Friday 7:15am & 7:00pm

PORTLAND
Our Lady of Fatima Church
503-246-6212
4530 SW Garden Home Road
Sunday 8:00am & 11:00am
Monday 9:00am*
Saturday 9:00am*
*(please call 360-944-5233 to verify)

KLAMATH FALLS
St. Therese Chapel
541-884-3158
12371 Keno Worden Road
KENO
1st & 5th Sunday 10:30am
 
:confused:

Rosary Crusader, did you know that the SSPX are not officially listed as being attatched to any archdiocese? That must mean they are in schism with the catholic church. I don’t think you should advise people to attend them without noting that fact because it could confuse them and cause them to unknowingly sin according to the rules of the catholic church.:eek:
 
There is no such thing as a (insert political adjective here) Catholic. You are either Catholic or you are not. Second, you have the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Finally, there are people who lie about what the Church teaches. We live in a Dictatorship of Relativism that holds opinions to the same level as facts. Ignore it. The radical feminists seek to divide and isolate, not heal. The Marxists and Anarchists want to do whatever they want. Ignore it.

What is born of the flesh is flesh, what is born of the spirit is spirit. The Father has drawn you to His Son. Accept the witness of the Holy Spirit of God.

Peace,
Ed
 
Lived in the pacific northwest for a while. Keep in mind that Oregon was the first state to decriminalized physician assisted suicide. I believe Washington or Idaho (don’t remember which) just followed suit.

Don’t under any circumstances not become Catholic because of confusion in the Body of Christ. Such things have been around since they wrote the epistles. Simply read Paul… my my… and we think we have factions, divisions, and dissent!
 
I stopped reading the op’s post at the point where the rica instructor claimed you can be prochoice and be catholic…that’s all I needed to see. You absolutely cannot be prochoice and be a catholic, she should not be teaching rica period and probably the bishop should be notified. Also for the op there is a wonderful website called catholic home study where there are various lessons and they are free. www.catholichomestudy.org
 
:confused:

Rosary Crusader, did you know that the SSPX are not officially listed as being attatched to any archdiocese? That must mean they are in schism with the catholic church. I don’t think you should advise people to attend them without noting that fact because it could confuse them and cause them to unknowingly sin according to the rules of the catholic church.:eek:
SSPX are not in schism and it’s not a sin to attend Mass there or receive instruction and I whole heartedly endorse them especially in light of what the OP is experiencing with a parish that is supposedly “in full communion.” If anyone is in schism it is the OP’s parish who has departed from the faith.

PCED confirms officially: Society of St. Pius X within the Church, not in formal schism; Catholics commit no sin nor incur any canonical penalty for Mass attendance by Brian Mershon
renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/080711

SSPX in schism? You can believe Fr. Newman… or you can believe the Church by Brian Mershon
renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/070807
 
I agree with the above comments: lthe OP = Alex is at a funny church; something wrong going on there. I don’t run into that kind of stuff here.

My guess is that a lot of this comes from priests entering the seminary in the 60s, with the belief that everything and anything can be changed to our pleasure or convenience.

I STRONGLY support fighting anyone who says there are “conservative Catholics” and “liberal Catholics”. We are simply one church, and people who promote this kind of distinction usually want to then trot out some personally favored change they wish to implement.

Stick with the Catechism. Stick with the Bible.
 
Unfortunately the situation you described is commonly experienced by many, my wife included. I’ve read of many posts here talking about finding a “conservative” parish but what your soul is yearning for is Truth, beauty, and reverence, and sound doctrine. I would urge you to immediately call your local FSSP or SSPX and get out of the RCIA program. Traditional Catholic Priests will teach you one on one or in small groups, depending on the need. There is no need to subject your soul to liberal (aka modernist) poison. If I had to do it all over again this is the route I would’ve recommended to my wife - but I was ignorant of this option at the time.

You can get in touch with a traditional Catholic Priest at these locations - hopefully there is one close to you - even if there isn’t it would be worth a long drive to get a spiritual Father who cares only for the salvation of your soul.

FSSP:
Does not appear to have an apostulate in OR.

SSPX

EUGENE
St. Thomas Becket Chapel
541-935-8608
25269 E. Bolton Road

VENETA
Sunday 7:15am & 9:00am (High Mass)
Daily 7:15am
(& when school is in 11:15am)
Saturday 8:00am
First Friday 7:15am & 7:00pm

PORTLAND
Our Lady of Fatima Church
503-246-6212
4530 SW Garden Home Road
Sunday 8:00am & 11:00am
Monday 9:00am*
Saturday 9:00am*
*(please call 360-944-5233 to verify)

KLAMATH FALLS
St. Therese Chapel
541-884-3158
12371 Keno Worden Road
KENO
1st & 5th Sunday 10:30am
I thought that the SSPX were not in full communion with Rome yet…

If that is the case, don’t go there until their issues are resolved with Rome.

Peace
James
 
I’m in a dilemma and would appreciate advice and/or information.

I’m in RCIA and considering becoming Roman Catholic, partly because I got disgusted by hearing blatant radical feminism and New Age fluff preached by the clergy at the Episcopal church I was attending (not to mention the national leader of the US Episcopal church). But I’ve become increasingly dismayed because the RCIA teachers, including the priest, are showing similar tendencies: they use the same annoying so-called “gender-inclusive language” to refer to God; last week one of the teachers referred to the “Sophia” passages in the bible as supposed evidence for a female God (as far as I know those passages are actually a poetic device personifying wisdom but not remotely referring to an actual god or part of the Godhead, and I spoke up in class and said so); also last week the same teacher said that you don’t have to agree with the church on everything, and specifically brought up abortion and said that you can be “pro-choice” and Catholic.
Before responding to the other comments, Red Flags are screaming!!!

You should take RCIA at another parish. What they are saying is not part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Are you sure it is a real Catholic parish at all? I hear about crazy situations like this, but I never see them in person and hope to never do.
 
SSPX are not in schism and it’s not a sin to attend Mass there or receive instruction and I whole heartedly endorse them especially in light of what the OP is experiencing with a parish that is supposedly “in full communion.” If anyone is in schism it is the OP’s parish who has departed from the faith.

PCED confirms officially: Society of St. Pius X within the Church, not in formal schism; Catholics commit no sin nor incur any canonical penalty for Mass attendance by Brian Mershon
renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/080711

SSPX in schism? You can believe Fr. Newman… or you can believe the Church by Brian Mershon
renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/070807
I do not know the latest news, but I would suggest the OP to call into the Catholic Answers Live to determine the truth or ask a Canon Lawyer – there are at least two on these forums. They would know for sure.

I just want to be sure, the first article talks about SSPX being part of the Church. But it does not talk about the faculties the SSPX priests have correct? in addition to being members of the Church, if they are a priest, they need faculties to service. Without an approval from a bishop in full communion with the Pope (ie. having faculties himself and thus permission to serve as a bishop in an official capacity), no priest within the Jurisdiction of the bishop is allowed to serve in his priestly ministry. He is still a priest, but a priest without faculties. Thus any confessions he does, is invalid in the absolution since the absolution has a judicial part and a Sacramental part. The same goes with Mass. The Mass is valid but illicit. In fact, I would imagine the priest is sinning to be having non-private Mass without faculties. Please correct me if I’m wrong any canon lawyer.

The second article does not tell much more am I correct. It just proves the SSPX exists and they are Catholic.
 
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